Country n'Irish

I used to think this was the worst music of all time because the regional station where I lived would play this identikit waltz time shite that sounded so moribund (which it was don't get me wrong) but I find myself gravitating towards some bits of it now. I love old country music in general. Big Tom, the Johnny Cash of the genre. Great memories of singing along with an auld lad taxi driver once lockdown ended to Four Country Roads. Same Way You Came In a great tune too. I used to always joke about how my dad found out I liked music and then got me a Philomena Begley tape for my birthday...much to my chagrin. Although I love this Ray Lynam/Philo tune now https://spotify.link/5FpgYqseNDb

Maybe Darragh and calzino got some thoughts on this unfairly maligned genre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y2uIhbzxO4

In my family Brendan was the man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkvUbgmzDB8

Brendan is a bit too cheesy but that's cool. This guy has some trenchant 80s social commentary lol. I actually love this one. It's got it all - Choc Ices out the booth, video vans, credit union loans, cute hoor hustling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUNw_2P7V3M

This is of course, a great song. Written by a Scot too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDyip7SIJkQ

We are talking folk now though. Give us the Big Toms, Nathan Carter's or the new breed like this fella singing songs about making silage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1JIgtX5pCk

Absolutely the music of my childhood - records and tapes and 8 tracks of Big Tom, Philomena Begley, Margo. Driving to Holyhead, rocking '3 Pubs in Bohola'.

Something felt different once O'Donnell came along, slicked over to this weird crossover point and drifting from its super-local oddness.

I only hear it now when I'm over and in my uncle's truck. Paddy by Gerry Carney was the last C&I tune I noticed & that was over ten years ago. Don't have a sense of where the genre's gone - followed an American contemporary country line? More schmaltz? idk but I'm interested.

Oh Christ the Indians are still going. Lads.

oh that Marty Mone is answering 'whither country and irish?' nicely. 13m views!

Got to admit I would have said Nathan Carter if I'd tried to name anyone recent, w/o realising it's been 15 years now. God. Old. I'd hear about him a lot (Newry roots, up the road from my mother's side of the family) but I disliked his face so never listened. Any jams?

Ulster is keeping the country flag flying. I was listening to a podcast with Stan Erraught (ex Stars of Heaven, ex ILM too) and he was talking about the genre. He went to see Nathan Carter and the band were not as slick as he expected!

Then again The Late Late Show has a country music show every year so maybe we are downplaying its sway

I actually love that Marty Mone song

now I kind of want to see him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9azUnFlApg

@Johndeer3650
3 months ago
Brilliant I use to do the silage pit there many years ago for b w uptons and sons

The Fureys' 'Sweet Sixteen' can still ambush with unexpected emotion after all these years.

Nobody has posted foster & allen yet?

you called?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wwa_TZceE0

Always found the lyrics to this one funny. Trying to tell girls to keep their hands on their ha'penny, lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ig4ctCL0Y

Indefensible.

A UK hit! In fact they had two Top 30 singles in the UK.

They were on Top of The Pops! (As was Daniel O'Donnell)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMSLR358JEY

Philomena Begley did 9/11

... and the Fureys. (xp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWquU9vyOHk

I was at the Misleor festival of Nomadic culture 2 weekends ago. Listening to a bunch of traveller women singing traditional somngswhen it struck me taht one of the singers seemed to be channelling a late 50s female country singer who I couldn't quite put my finger on.
Not sure if it was Patsy Cline or who still but did find it noticeable.
Probably is an ongoing process of styles being picked up and taking over from more traditional styles. But that is external gaze anyway.

NOt quite teh same thing as country& Irish I guess. NOt sure what icons Big Tom etc were picking up on as influences.
I was later at a backstage party where there was a lot more mawkish country stuff being sung. Think people are picking up on the bits of country that I prefer to edit out but that is the core of the genre innit.

I thought it was interesting listening through the set of early Irish traditional material recorded in New England in the 1920s and 30s that Proper put out Farewell To Ireland and hearing pre echoes of r'n'r and other country type stuff. & therefore thinking of the influence that Irish and Scottish folk stuff had on the creation of country. THough maybe there is more of a leaning towards ulster Scots stuff taht became hillbilly. (Also recommend the Tony Russell book Country Music Originals which I finished recently)

But can just about see the way that the traditions of Irish music taht gave birth to country in the first place probably means that country would be something that would be reimported after teh interval of development that created the country styles this stuff is based on.
I'm thinking this is about a stage of development current with 40s and 50s country that's been tapped back into.

I don't think I'd realised how Ulster the old scene is - Big Tom, Philomena, Margo (and so of course D O'D).

Anyway, going into the Johnny McEvoy rabbit hole. Think of him as core 70s/80s C&I but he's clearly a little folkier/rebel, eg late 60s Dylan and Cohen covers.

Big Tom's wiki page is chaos.

i was an american "lad" visiting the relations in Ulster during this particular time and hearing what my parents were listening to on WHN while country was at its crossover zenith and then hearing the remote versions in ireland on the local scene was dire, at least my older cousin would play abba greatest hits on the reg during car trips even tho abba was square it was beautiful vs the sham irish/country

In September 2004, Big Tom was reported to have been in a list of Irish tax evaders.[8]

Sadly there was no Glastonbury appearance to protest

I grew up hating it but I'm old now and I've ended up with respect for it (without really wanting to listen to it often). In my corner of the Irish-in-England this stuff was everywhere - the seisiúin end of things was quite respectable school-and-teachers while this was what was on in homes and pubs etc.

I remember first hearing a Pair of Brown Eyes when I was about 13 - 'Ray and Philomena sang of My Elusive Dreams'. Shocked to hear the existence of this stuff acknowledged in something resembling the outside world.

I mean yes, this feels like defend the indefensible territory - largely quietist sentimental sexless pablum - but I'm enjoy digging around.

In the mid noughties I turned on Resonance FM one evening & heard a straight crap Country and Irish tune and thought holy shit no way the hipsters and cratediggers have finally found this genre. Turned out it was just Resonance fulfilling its community radio remit with Ireland's Eye.

I'm trying to find it to no avail on the internets but I remember coming across a quote once from either former Taoiseach John Bruton or Albert Reynolds about Big Tom. Something like "You'd recognise Big Tom from the bolts in his neck"

haha I do find his face uncanny, disturbing. Hauntological monaghan monster

but the man has a voice and I've just enjoyed The Clones Cyclone

It’s not the thread for it but where does someone like Mary Black fit

not quite folk, not quite country - maybe Mary Black is the Irish Linda Ronstadt

Fairly sure I listened to this about a million times as a child

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WaLZt11D7E

Good tune!

I started poking around the Daniel O'Donnell catalogue thinking that there must be something good in there but I have now listened his version of Bad Moon Rising and put that idea aside.

actually I like his gentle but firm delivery of "hope you are quite prepared to die"

I've not been able to take D OD seriously since Eoin McLove.

I can have you killed!

Weirdly there was a huge Irish community in Hertfordshire in the 60s, 70s, 80s - lots of my schoolmates dads had come over to work as labourers on the construction of the new towns, so all this stuff is forever a Proustian time tunnel back to drinking Pepsi and playing Galaxian at the Shamrock Club in Welwyn Garden City, 1979.

If you think Country n Irish is bad you should check out Scottish Country like Sydney Devine! Though I think Tom D loved a bit of steak & kidney on 'Thingummyjig' as a wee lad.

and I definitely remember the odd irish country act on it too. It was always on a Friday evening when we were at my Grans.

Frostbit boy came out with a country tune a few years back lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQR9kbqw3h8

if im right by what mike means by country n irish vs fureys or mary black (you wouldnt iirc hear trad or actual quality ballads on MWR as a rule is my possibly imaginary dividing line) then i have mainly negative thoughts on it generally but i will say they will dig my skeleton up some day and run a scan to see what rhythm was deepest and last in my bones and its fuckin likely its going to be the accordion staccato hard heels on plywood diddle diddle deedle di of declan nurneys "and you never learned to dance" which i heard once in my life in the '88 audi going over maum to do the cows (thereby getting me in a psychotropically vulnerable state) and melded itself into my central netvous system in a fashion which i can only in all sincerity say makes me half suspicious about what i may have inherited from a mayo roscommon bloodline

Best thread in a while. Good stuff.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_and_Irish

Johnny McCauley, who performed extensively for Irish expat audiences in London in the 1950s, is regarded as the first songwriter to compose songs in an American country music style with lyrics that specifically referenced Irish subject matter.[4] His songs were covered by artists such as Big Tom and Larry Cunningham at a time when the showband business model was in decline, allowing these artists to pivot to selling recorded music.[5]

Darragh yes, 'Is the vibe MWR?' is basically my test.

I was wandering around yesterday evening humming to myself and then every now and again singing a single line, just '…In the county of Tyrone', which makes me think a) this stuff is dangerous to anyone with the wrong genetic markings, felt like I needed a dashboard or steering wheel to tap along on to complete my transformation and b) McCauley does seem like the key guy in some way because I cannot for the life of me remember listening to "Pretty Little Girl from Omagh" at any point yesterday. It was just… there.

In fact first couple of sings, I was on "…in the county of Mayo" and my head was telling me 'no no, something's wrong. Look inside. Trust.' which got me to Tyrone. And I had no idea what it even was till I just now was listening to the Larry Cunningham version in the interest of McCauley research.

But there's also something impressive about the relentless strip mining of US country for cover versions - there's the obvious (I knew Blanket on the Ground from Philomena, not Billie Jo) but then it looks like Philomena and Susan McCann do quite a lot of Linda Hargrove?

(and cf Crystal Swing - it doesn't look like "He Drinks Tequila" was a huge hit on the US country charts)

Exploring the Big Tom meta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lurKZVMQZSM

Susan McCann, Big Tom Is Still The King (1977). Surely "You can have your Waylon Jennings" is affectionate/knowing, because this is basically 'Bob Wills is still the king'. MacGowan throws the title line into 'Rock 'n' Roll Paddy' from The Crock of Gold (also pictured sitting under a Big Tom poster on the back cover).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSeEOey3ALA

5 years later, TR Dallas - Big Tom Doesn't Play Here Anymore.

xp The big country singer in the area I grew up (east county Limerick) Jimmy Buckley got famous from singing Randy Travis's "Forever and Ever Amen" on Gerry Ryan's RTE show Secrets back in the late 80s. He's made a career out of it since which is kinda impressive tbh. He does have a good country voice

I remember TR Dallas' version of "Its So Hard To Be Humble" on the early 80s. I think he added a childrens choir to it for some reason

Ah yeah, the TR Dallas "It's So Hard to be Humble" was a big favourite of my dad's. I find myself throwing it out sometimes when walking around the house on my own.

Tom McGurk explores the land of Kavanagh and Big Tom. Also ft Johnny McAuley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgPClIrcdZM

woof pls stop posting because im getting spooked

stephen king surely wrote a short story where someone turned into a haunted villager by slow realisation that he knew the songs on the radio, right?

hal ketchum went big with past the point of rescue which iirc was a big deal as far as irish country washing back the other way with success went

buckley wrote a few that went big for christy also but christy isnt imo MWR either

its a real "you know it when you hear it" test i guess

I was wandering around yesterday evening humming to myself and then every now and again singing a single line, just '…In the county of Tyrone',

o fuck I CAN HEAR IT

maybe twasnt buckley but i think it was

'...In the county of Tyrone' = the 'woke up this morning' of Country n'Irish

I used to co-present a show on Tipperary MWR on Saturday evenings with a friend a few years ago. Usual smattering of indie (Strokes, Smiths) and maybe some Led Zep or Beatles. Nothing too out there obviously. Once we were done, Sheila would come in to the studio and BLAM! it was wall to wall country n'irish for the rest of the day. It was a bit of a culture shock for non-Irish friends who were listening in to our show. My American mate Mike called them "alcoholic polka songs of the dead"

woof: i love that Big Tom in Castleblaney vid

hah Michael I liked those weird hours when MWR would mysteriously do something else for a bit (eg 60s soul on a Sunday maybe?). And now fallen into the rabbit hole of MWR's pirate history (and also enjoying the site's selection of Irish pirate country station transmissions picked up in Norway, tho they are giving me dark this is not a dream vibes.)

yes I find the vid intoxicating - everyone looking at the ground as they're talking, Tom's perfect 70s working man outfit at the end (I can smell that shirt), scenes from the Castleblayney Black Ark.

“I grew up with Big Tom, my grandfather was his uncle. I listened to a lot of my early gigs in the Old Log Cabin." He's definitely following an American contemporary country line here. This tune is about 8 years old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOgUWg_-Jhw

RIP Shane. You knew.

https://imgur.com/a/blzBpuw

I'm back in the Limerick/Tipperary interzone homeland again. My ears are getting absolutely blathered with Irish country at the local. Spotify playlist incoming

My dad passed away last December. Sang Big Tom's "Same way you came in" with gusto that night at aforementioned local I can tell you

Sorry for your loss Michael & that is a great way to see him off.

(Awaiting spotify playlist)

I love this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcyr-Lq0QWs

Popular Newfoundland song, sounds familiar....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAYJkkp29WM