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Smashing Pumpkins, replete with all the highly entertaining and fun stadium rock excess, minus all the unpleasant boring wankery.

It's great. I bet Ned loves it, and everyone else should too!

― edward o (edwardo), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 00:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I bet Ned loves it

You got it. Utterly goddamn fantastic.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 02:11 (twenty-three years ago)

I cannot for the life of me grasp how it is that you not only can stand Smashing Pumpkins, Ned, but really love them a lot. I mean I love some really terrible music and I know it but the sound of Billy C.'s "now I mean it" voice (say, the "Tonight, Tonight") is so horrifying to me. I am not asking for a defense or anything -- I listened to the new Nightwish album yesterday, and as soon as my wife lets me near the stereo, I'm going to do it again -- just registering my bewilderment.

Does the subject-line mean there's a new SP album and it's too late to do anything about it, by the way?

― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 03:08 (twenty-three years ago)

well, the name's better than Audioslave at least, so i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. what's it sound like?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 03:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh wait a minute this is about some band called Zwan - nevvahmind

― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 03:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Does the subject-line mean there's a new SP album and it's too late to do anything about it, by the way?

Not really, though given that Zwan comprises one half of the Pumpkins line-up anyway, one might as well say "yes".

well, the name's better than Audioslave at least, so i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. what's it sound like?

Big guitars, soaring anthemic chorus ala Mellon Collie, but without the orchestral tendencies, and the singing is the "rough" Corgan of Siamese Dream. Would have sounded just amazing coming after "Soma" or toward the tail end of the second disc of Mellon Collie.

― edward o (edwardo), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 03:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I've heard a couple of live bootlegs, which sounded okay but fairly formative. I'm rooting for Zwan because having Billy Corgan and Matt from Chavez in the same band simply cannot go wrong, and to have David Pajo thrown in is total bonus gravy.

― Nick Mirov (nick), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 03:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I want CHAVEZ, I don't want ZWAN! Damn this all to hell.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 03:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean I love some really terrible music and I know it

But this is the thing, John! I don't see it as terrible! I like the music I like. And you like what you like -- so why call it terrible when you enjoy it? :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 03:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I want (more) Chavez too, but it's been six years since Ride The Fader and I've already made my way through the four stages of coping with loss, so I'm just happy that someone from Chavez is doing something besides apparently sitting on their asses and not recording a new Chavez album.

― Nick Mirov (nick), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 05:20 (twenty-three years ago)

But this is the thing, John! I don't see it as terrible! I like the music I like. And you like what you like -- so why call it terrible when you enjoy it? :-)

Sure sure, I know. I am extremely pre-modern in how I describe things: I don't think "I like it" means "it's good." I don't feel embarassed or anything about completely loving lots of things that aren't very good, but I am adamant that "I like it" and "it's good" are 1) not equivalent statements and 2) not necessarily good partners, even.

Should we continue this we'll end up talking about the possibility for objective standards in the absence of G-d, etc., so best to leave off. Mainly I just wanted to rib you about liking the Smashing Pumpkins ;-)

― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I am adamant that "I like it" and "it's good" are 1) not equivalent statements and 2) not necessarily good partners, even.

!! Wow! I think we have ourselves a great thread topic here, I'll start it.

Mainly I just wanted to rib you about liking the Smashing Pumpkins ;-)

Aw man! Hey, did I mention I have the acoustic demos for most of the albums and a slew of live concerts and the thing and the deal and...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 16:27 (twenty-three years ago)

billy corgan is the pomp-rock rubbish version of julian casablancas. but balder and older like a rubbish alt.com elton john.

― doom-e, Wednesday, 4 December 2002 16:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Aw man! Hey, did I mention I have the acoustic demos for most of the albums and a slew of live concerts and the thing and the deal and...

Ned you so much rule my world :)

― J0hn Darni3ll3, Wednesday, 4 December 2002 17:44 (twenty-three years ago)

One tries. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.cs.grinnell.edu/~kuper/honestly.mp3

― Jonathan Williams (ex machina), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 19:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Please note that if Sweeney sang and Corgan solely played guitar, I would be totally down w/ Zwan - EARTH TO CORGAN, MAKE IT SO. The fact that Ron Howard's other brother insists on bleating through these songs like some upper-class billy goat makes me wince, frown and sigh with justifiable disappointment. But, then, the only Zwan I heard / put up w/ came from some concert MP3s of questionable fidelity, so who knows?

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 19:15 (twenty-three years ago)

There's the link above as well as the files on the homepage at http://www.zwan.com -- judge for yourself, but I suspect your reaction will be unchanged. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 19:19 (twenty-three years ago)

ZWAN ROCKS!!!! BILLY CORGAN LIKE PANCAKES

― Brian Chapron, Thursday, 5 December 2002 02:56 (twenty-three years ago)

pre-Mellon Collie Billy voice = yay!
post-Siamese Dream Billy voice = arg!

― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 8 December 2002 00:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Complaints, complaints. ;-) And here is where I get everyone going more by saying I'm waiting for the Zwan show in LA (which is being broadcast and webcast) to kick in in about twenty minutes...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 8 December 2002 03:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Pumpkins ruled! Haven't heard Zwan yet, but I'll probably like it!

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 8 December 2002 10:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw them do one song live on MuchMusic today and it was great. I was thinking over the last day or two that Ned's Smashing Pumpkins obsession actually makes a little more sense to me than the MBV obsession and I remembered just why. It was this great indie anthem melody but performed with more strength and personality with an excellent over-flanged guitar solo and solid drum part. I miss Corgan's earlier voice but it was good to see anyway.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 20 December 2002 06:36 (twenty-three years ago)

i saw the muchmusic performance, too. parts of it. not that much. from the bit i saw it really was great. kind of like machina stuff but a bit less goofy, maybe. it sounds nice.

― d k (d k), Friday, 20 December 2002 07:10 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

Crikey! this Zwan malarkey! fuck me if it's not Billy's best work since Siamese Dream. And it is! (fortunately for you lot)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 24 January 2003 13:05 (twenty-three years ago)

siamese dream was rub. the one and only pumpkins album worth it is gish.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 24 January 2003 13:17 (twenty-three years ago)

meh

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 24 January 2003 13:17 (twenty-three years ago)

i dunno if i could deal with corgan's voice,but i'd be curious to hear this anyway...the idea of billy corgan and dave pajo collaborating still seems fairly odd to me...

― robin (robin), Friday, 24 January 2003 14:38 (twenty-three years ago)

This thread needs a serious...Log Bomb!

http://www.boblog111.com/images/helmet.gif

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 24 January 2003 14:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Jim has accepted the way and truth. The rest will follow. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 January 2003 15:41 (twenty-three years ago)

the website is grebt. I have listened to all of the music archived and my favorite is the live "Mary Star of the Sea" in the live zwan->streaming audio section. It is a long track with a great deal of improv and interplay and less of Corgan's voice for those who care. Incidentally, I always preferred the playing of the pumpkins as musicians, whereas some of the singing and songs are less exciting to me (which is all relative; I love the pumpkins and am unashamed to admit it)

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Friday, 24 January 2003 16:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Billy has a dirty sanchez in that video.

I'm sorry, how can any human being not be scared by that Zwan video. Michael Jackson could take Billy's place and it wouldn't be any more fucked up.

Y'all still tripping.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:11 (twenty-three years ago)

I will get it next week, if it's out.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw the video and I'm sorry but that song sounds like Warrant or something, and I'm not just saying that to get Jel excited.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not sure about that but I am a little unimpressed with the single/video now. It seemed good when they played it on TV though.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I would just like to take this opportunity once again to state that if at least one person buys a Swans album by mistake, it will all have been worth it.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 25 January 2003 00:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Do you still listen to Swans albums?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 25 January 2003 00:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Sure! Not as often as I used to. I'll be listening to Swans a heck of a lot more than I'll be listening to ZWAN.

I know Ned loves both, so this is mainly an attempt to rile him up.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 25 January 2003 00:21 (twenty-three years ago)

y is b corgan so happy in dat video, is it a shtick or something more personal?

― naked as sin (naked as sin), Saturday, 25 January 2003 01:02 (twenty-three years ago)

he found his pants.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 January 2003 01:04 (twenty-three years ago)

the song they played on letterman last evening was pretty bland.

― keith (keithmcl), Saturday, 25 January 2003 02:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm looking forward to it. Doesn't it come out in two days?

Er, I haven't heard the songs tho.. do they sound like they're any good?

― Curtis Stephens, Saturday, 25 January 2003 04:39 (twenty-three years ago)

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