sonic youth - goodbye 20th century c/d

This is the critical equivalent of the time I was walking through MoMA looking at some cubist paintings and a dad said to his 8 year-old "You could draw something just like that." DESTROY, DESTROY, DESTROY.

Hey, a hundred monkeys banging away at typewriters could eventually come up with "The quality of mercy is not strnen," but I'm not going to be the one to claim that they will.

*gazes out at massed ilxor typers in sudden horrified realisation*

IT'S TOO LATE!!

That's aboot right. I remember before it came out, reading the details of it ("Thurston and Kim's daughter 'sings' a Yoko Ono track!") and being somewhat amused by the idea. Then I bought the album, and it was everything I feared it would be (Thurston and Kim's daughter 'sings' a Yoko Ono track). When you watch the video of them hammering nails into a piano, seeing them smiling and laughing, you realise how badly you've been swindled.

[Sister would probably not make my top 6 SY records FWIW BTW.]

Why not? And how can it not be "devoid of thought, creativity, and effort"? It seems like they threw darts at a list of 20th century composers, and made feedback versions of their pieces (and included some friends and collaboators work). It's just as half-hearted as their "grunge" (Dirty), lo-fi (Experimental...), and current 1970s rawk nostalgia tip (C'mon, was Thurston talking up the Sparks in the 1990s?) periods. "Hey look, we're returning to our roots from 20 years ago, and haven't even touched in that timeframe." Why should I give an alternative rock band credit for pulling off a really, really bad Kronos Quartet record?

"The first piece" shows how much of an effect the album made on you.

I do like the Steve Reich piece, but seriously, buy the OHM box set instead to get it.

Why should I give an alternative rock band credit for pulling off a really, really bad Kronos Quartet record?

I haven't heard the thing, but I can't imagine it's that bad.

If they threw darts at a list of 20th Century composers, surely they would've hit some serialists too, among others.

Because I didn't remember the title??? I don't see that at all. I play the CDs with enough frequency, just not while looking at the tracklist. I could describe what happens sonically in the piece. I remember Kim Gordon's Goldilocks-based story. I've written in more depth elsewhere on what effect the records had (see the "most pretentious band" thread, for example).

Dirty is easily among their greatest albums.

You mean as opposed to Madonna?

I like Sonic Youth, but I have to say in all honesty that Madonna has has put more ideas out there. More good ones, too, probably, but that's not my main point.

Madonna *certainly does* have better marketing ideas, agreed.

I'm happier now, though.

Or is there a Madonna album of, say, 20th Century vocal works that I'm not aware of? I'd like to hear her do Takemitsu's "AI," actually.

it's the only song i've heard off the record, i would never by anything like this, and i think there is much more important experimental music being made every day by people even less serious than sonic youth, but accomplishing much more. dig?

If it's "Pendulum Music" (and I'm remembering correctly), it'd be hard to do a version of it without sounding like the original, unless you wanted to get all "weird." It's four mics swinging above amps lying face-up on the ground, producing feedback algorithmically.

But "Pendulum Music" is not a song, but a piece.

gygax!: No I don't dig if that's the only track you've heard. Also, the term "cover" is totally inapplicable in the area of compositional music, where pieces are composed and notated to be performed by anyone, not songs identified with a singer.

okay, to get all ILM on y'all:

all music is experimental.
every song is a piece, a performance piece if you will (or even if you won't)
sundar, any composition can be "covered" (ie, re-recorded, re-interpreted). there are varying degrees of interpretation that are beyond notation.

at any rate, back to my point: i would never purchase this record... it is just not interesting to me or something worthy of listening to more than once. if it turns people onto earlier touchstones of experimental music, i think that is fine.

i <3 merzbow.

every song = piece, but every piece /= song. That's all I was tryin' to say. Well, that and if I saw it for $10 I'd buy it ($5 a CD is a good deal on just about anything, except maybe a 2-CD Madonna retrospective [and I like Madonna, but I don't need to own her music]).

no problem, if only for allowing me the very temporary pleasure of spoonfeeding your stuffy "language meaning" trolling right back to you.

to address your "thought-provoking" questions:
if it's "experimental", then what wd constitutes an "improvement"? "it makes a better record"?

to elaborate on what i said earlier: when i heard the SY cover of the reich song, I thought to myself, "this sounds exactly like the original", followed shortly by "how uninteresting". i never really thought about it again until earlier this hour. now if in the years since hearing the cover, i had reason to actually ponder why the difference in the two recordings was better, seeing if i could hear a difference, then i would have reason to expound upon whether the difference made an improvement or not. but as it is, the cover was too similar for me to make such a judgement and i dismissed it as uninteresting academic collector-bait.

gygax, and apologies for not assuming that said answer wz just a bunch of words w/o content, i'm happy to do that next time if you like

hey, be my guest, it may cut down on the daily one liner quotient.

what do you think of zen arcade?

song
n 1: a short musical composition with words; "a successful musical must have at least three good songs"

piece
n 4: a musical work that has been created; "the composition is written in four movements" [syn: musical composition, opus, composition, piece of music]

cover
v 15. Music. To record a cover version of (a song).
n 8. Music. A cover version.

A recording of a song that was previously recorded or made popular by another. Also called cover song

i feel so much... smarter... now.

thanks h: you, you wear it so well.

(And Sean, I like some Madonna too, chill.)

-- polyphonic (polyphonic@h...), December 4th, 2002.

Where did I say it was bad? All I said was it was a half-hearted attempt to live up to their Geffen marketing sudden status as "The Godparents of Grunge". One of many "phases" (notice the next album was lo-fi) the band picked up, and quickly discarded in the 1980s and 1990s.

"The first piece" shows how much of an effect the album made on you.

Because I didn't remember the title??? I don't see that at all.

Because it accomplished what da Yoof set out to do. Make people feel smug aboot getting into the avant-garde. The composer is just as important as who performs it. Otherwise it's just another SY record.*

I remember Kim Gordon's Goldilocks-based story.

Then it is just another crappy Sonic Youth album (see opening to A Thousand Leaves and one of the tracks on SY5 (I know, I know, that's not SY)), making the whole "composers" thing a marketing gimmick. And worthy of ridicule at that.

Dirty is easily among their greatest albums.

Well, you cinvinced me. Technically, any of their albums is among their greatest albums, fence-sitter, but, whatever.

The Oliveros piece was even written specifically for the project.

Hey, thanks for not reading what I wrote! Here's a snippet of what I wrote "It seems like they threw darts at a list of 20th century composers, and made feedback versions of their pieces (and included some friends and collaboators work)." Or does this not fall into the category of "friends and collaborators work"?

The Kronos Quartet comparison is nonsensical. What is the point of
comparison, other than playing works by modern composers? Or did you just randomly choose a modern ensemble?

Kronos- Ensemble with mandate of performing work by 20th Century composers, with appeal to the masses.

SY- Made double album of works by 20th Century composers. Wider appeal than an album by typical work of modern composition.

Yeah, that's non-sensical.

The "main point of comparison" was not a point of comparison at all. That's exactly what I said to people after I first heard the SY album. That it sounded like a bad Kronos Quartet record. That's not a comparison, that's an opinion.

*This is to intentionally rile people up, and is not intended to make the least bit of sense, SO DON'T DEBATE IT [/Nate]

If it sounds exactly like the original, how can it be any less or more interesting than the original?

i wanna be your dog
hot wire my heart
touch me i'm sick
4 tunna brix

sonic youth have provided very interesting interpretations of the above composers' pieces.

the fact that their performance is so similar to the original is not as interesting to me as i could just listen to the original without having to purchase a sonic youth record that sounds exactly the same to me.

is it interesting to you to have multiple records MP3s of all your favorite songs/albums?

Yes, but obviously this implies that you own the original. (What's the original, by the way? Did Reich release a version of this at some point? I haven't scoured all the Reich discs ever released, but it's not in the 10-disc box set.) Now that I own the SY version, I don't need to track down and purchase the original.

Can anybody comment on how the Yoko cover compares to the original? I was disappointed with the Slonimsky, I was hoping they'd go into full prog overdrive or something, instead you'd think he was a low-budget Erik Satie.

Are some of you ppl the same goons who heckled SY when they performed this material live at the RFH a year or so ago?

Definitely worth ten dollars.

What the world really needs is a remix completition with this album asd the source material. If someone ales agrees to do it too I'll definitley do a remix.

i) does like pop music, and

ii) likes this album?

the whole madonna thing has just got me confused.

(meanwhile i'm listening to sonic youth live at roskilde 98 and it sounds like the best thing ever ever ever.)

I can't say I like Goodbye 20th Century because, as I noted upthread, I haven't heard it. I like the concept, though, and based on that if I saw it somewhere for $10, I'd buy it.

...or $10 a month to download it, everything else on SYR Records, and a whole bunch of other stuff at Emusic. (I wonder if there's any chance we'll be able to get Xstatic Peace stuff next?)

I don't like it because it isn't very pretty and it makes my head hurt.

The Reich piece made my head explode. I love it.

<ILM mental brigade>what is experimental? what is music? what is stuff?</ILM mental brigade>

read my original post clarke... does somebody still smart? what does zen arcade mean to you?

That's because it's utterly brilliant, see. (*whispers* And also worth more than the last ten years of her career put together...)

i do still like the sleeve of the double LP

more later maybe, after buffy

Main Entry: song
Pronunciation: 'so[ng]
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English sang; akin to Old English singan to sing
Date: before 12th century
4 : a distinctive or characteristic sound or series of sounds (as of a bird or insect)
5 a : a melody for a lyric poem or ballad b : a poem easily set to music
6 a : a habitual or characteristic manner b : a violent, abusive, or noisy reaction "put up quite a song"
7 : a small amount "sold for a song"

Main Entry: piece
Pronunciation: 'pEs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin pettia, of Gaulish origin; akin to Welsh peth thing
Date: 13th century
1 : a part of a whole: as a : FRAGMENT "pieces of broken glass" b : any of the individual members comprising a unit -- often used in combination "a five-piece band" "a three-piece suit"
2 : an object or individual regarded as a unit of a kind or class "a piece of fruit"
3 : a short distance "down the road a piece"
4 : a standard quantity (as of length, weight, or size) in which something is made or sold

Main Entry: cov·er
Pronunciation: 'k&-v&r
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): cov·ered; cov·er·ing /'k&v-ri[ng], 'k&-v&-/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French covrir, from Latin cooperire, from co- + operire to close, cover
Date: 13th century
transitive senses
1 a : to guard from attack b (1) : to have within the range of one's guns : COMMAND (2) : to hold within range of an aimed firearm c (1) : to afford protection or security to : INSURE (2) : to afford protection against or compensation for d (1) : to guard (an opponent) in order to obstruct a play (2) : to be in position to receive a throw to (a base in baseball) e (1) : to make provision for (a demand or charge) by means of a reserve or deposit "your balance is insufficient to cover the check" (2) : to maintain a check on especially by patrolling (3) : to protect by contrivance or expedient
2 a : to hide from sight or knowledge : CONCEAL "cover up a scandal" b : to lie over : ENVELOP
3 : to lay or spread something over : OVERLAY
4 a : to spread over b : to appear here and there on the surface of
5 : to place or set a cover or covering over
6 a : to copulate with (a female animal) "a horse covers a mare" b : to sit on and incubate (eggs)

Never collaborate with Dan on a 'cover version' of anything in the future.

1. Take 4 (four) standard microphones, 4 (four) standard microphone stands, 4 (four) standard amplifiers and 4 (four) people, not necessarily standard.

2. Place the amplifiers on the ground/floor, with the speakers pointing up towards the sky/ceiling.

3. Place the microphones and microphone stands near the amplifiers so that the microphones may dangle by their cords, at their slackest position, just inches above the speakers.

4. Have the 4 (four) standard or non-standard humans hold the microphones at an angle that will produce a pendulum-like swing for each microphone when let go, at the same distance away from the speakers.

5. Turn the microphones and amplifiers on.

6. Have the 4 (four) standard or non-standard humans let go of the microphones, producing a pendulum-like swinging motion for each microphone and, in turn, producing feedback effects when the microphones are near the speakers.

7. Enjoy! Congratulations, you have just performed Steve Reich's "Pendulum Music."

I think some scores might be on the SY site. I downloaded the Oliveros piece once.

I like pop music. See some of the Avril Lavigne threads.

as a 'concept' i think it's cooler than probably any one of the tracks on Goodbye 20th Century, and it's their own idea, and apparently was pretty spontaneous, and taken to pretty extreme lengths, but ended up in a more restrained, compact format (a CD with a running time and track lengths more suitable for a pop record than almost any other SY release), and it doesn't really sound like what you might expect; the result is actually pretty ambient and beautiful.

hstencil:
This is the critical equivalent of the time I was walking through MoMA looking at some cubist paintings and a dad said to his 8 year-old "You could draw something just like that."

That's wrong because an 8-year-old couldn't produce cubist paintings. That sort of comment is moronic philistinism which doesn't accord with reality (have you ever seen a child's drawing which looks remotely like a Picasso?).

Just look at the "scores" on the SYR website for the pieces - Takehisa Kosugi's, or James Tenney's. There's no real thought there, just empty conceptual nonsense. Whatever sounds SY and chums produced in response to those "scores" had almost nothing to do with either the "score" or the "composer". The results may be good, but that doesn't mean the "idea" is worth anything. The problem with a lot of conceptual art is that if the artist is an idiot (and a lot of them are), they will be producing idiotic concepts.

Goodbye 20th Century is the worst album ever made. Who's with me???

IT'S THREE A.M.!! THREEE A.M.!! THREE A.M.!!! ETERNAAALLLLAAALLLLLLL!!!!

I look forward to hearing this record someday.