Is it useless to write a negative review of an album that's relatively unknown?

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Is it?

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 5 December 2002 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah.

Mr Swygart (mrswygart), Thursday, 5 December 2002 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Not at all. It can be very fun.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 December 2002 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

From an editor's standpoint: Is it useless to run one?

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

depending on who the reviewer is, it almost insures the cult value of it.

gygax!, Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

If you're reviewing demos, it's inevitable.

Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Id say it depends on what is "negative" about it. You could use it as a platform to rail more generally on an aspect of music that bothers you (i..e "derivative being the new new") .. but to review negatively based on the music itself.. I dunno.

insectifly (insectifly), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

"derivative being the new new"

This phrase looks uncomfortably familiar...

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Shakey.. it was used in some CMJ review - at least that is why I used it

insectifly (insectifly), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

it can be a bit pointless. especially when its taking up pagespace for writing negative reviews of cherished and established acts. ha!

david mc, Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

"Shakey.. it was used in some CMJ review - at least that is why I used it"

Yeah I know, it was a review of my band's record. Good to know that someone reads CMJ, I suppose.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Shakey yeah? wow, well we defended you on the CMJ bulletin boards.. if you care..

insectifly (insectifly), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Pitchfork's recent slam of the new Negro Problem pissed me off--why rip a record by a band that almost nobody's ever heard? Who is helped?

dan (dan), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

"Pitchfork's recent slam of the new Negro Problem pissed me off--why rip a record by a band that almost nobody's ever heard? Who is helped?"

Obviously, the writer (and his ego).

"Shakey yeah? wow, well we defended you on the CMJ bulletin boards.. if you care.. "

Awwwww - sweet!

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's okay for insectifly's reason, and also because the artist is pretty likely to read the review, so there's a strong possibility of them thinking about what you say. Maybe a negative review would help them pin down something the artist herself doesn't like about her music, for instance.

charlie va (charlie va), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, the Negro Problem has gotten loads of press...

But anyway, are reviews supposed to help an artist, or are they supposed to inform a reader?

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

They're supposed to make for enjoyable, provocative reading.

dan (dan), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

All of those things, I think.

Incidentally, that Negro Problem review REALLY makes me want to hear the record.

charlie va (charlie va), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I only mentioned Pitchfork because it was out of character for them--50 abstract electronic records come out every week and they pretty much confine themselves to writing about ones they think are good. I like that.

The Negro Problem record is great, and that review is even more obnoxious than I remembered it.

dan (dan), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, the Negro Problem has gotten loads of press...

I bet the band came up with their name precisely so that sentences like this would appear. I like them already!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Or any of them, maybe, from my previous post.

charlie va (charlie va), Thursday, 5 December 2002 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

haha good point dan

charlie va (charlie va), Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

That's obviously the reason for the name (On a side note, a friend of mine is an engineer and sent out a company wide email about some sort of design flaw. He ran a spellcheck before sending it out, and some technical term got changed to "negro" in the process, so his email ended up being about the company's current "negro problem." After lots of explaining he got to keep his job.).

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

SO CLASSIC.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The Negro Problem album, together with Stew's solo album, are going to be in my Top 5 this year. Please listen to them before you let that ignorant-ass review put you off. If you still hate TNP, then fine...but I think you won't. I mean, there's a song called "Bermuda Love Triangle" that sounds like "The Pina Colada Song," except it's about a failed menage a trois that ends in gunfire, and the cop says "Don't hate the player, hate the game." Stunning.

Matt C., Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

An unknown band? Shit, ANY press is good press. You can call my band a donkey-lipped incestual monkey orgy of god-awful-ness, if it get's people familiar with my band's name, I'm game.

However...it REALLY irks me when music critics review albums and don't discuss the music, y'know, like they're like "well, he's a guy with a KFC bucket on his head, and he's not Slash, so we give this album 1 1/2 stars, and we're not gonna tell you jack shit about the music". [that's a paraphrase of RS's recent review of Buckethead's Electric Tears album, btw]

Basically...give it a bad review if you want, but at least make sure it's a bad review BASED ON THE MUSIC. Please.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 5 December 2002 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

NO! I only review records based on the band's bathroom wallpaper (if it has elephants in bathtubs they always get 10's!).

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 5 December 2002 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I feel pretty ridiculous when i'm trying to go into detail with the lousyness of a record that nobody knows. But what's the alternative? Not to review the record at all?

One of my editors always says: We should choose the records we review after two criteria: Is it well known? Isit any good?

Agree?

Jay K (Jay K), Thursday, 5 December 2002 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

No. And it's okay to think for yourself...

---------
go.to/stevek

steve k (stevek10), Thursday, 5 December 2002 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

My policy is that it's only worthwhile to write/print a negative review of an unknown artist if the REVIEW ITSELF is prima facie interesting INDEPENDENT OF its assessment of the particular record it's covering. Which happens sometimes, but not very often at all.

Douglas, Thursday, 5 December 2002 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

How do you decide if a record is unknown? Where I come from, The Negro Problem are a pretty big band. They don't have any problems selling out gigs in Oakland/SF.

As far as Pitchfork is concerned, a lot of the stuff they review sells less than 5000 copies in the states. But that's their demographic. If their audience is trying to discern good unknown artists from bad ones, it helps to have negative reviews that guide you away from stuff that isn't any good.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 5 December 2002 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"Is it well known? Isit any good?"

well half of that criteria is right anyway.

seriously, pointless slags against frankly insignificant (but diamonds to their mums, im sure) bands really get on my tits. its like picking on the weakest kid in the class just cos you can. it gives some music writers a chance to vent their pent-up artistic and (possibly sexual) frustrations in a way that (sigh of relief, commissioning editors) doesnt rock the precious consensus.

here's an idea: instead of wasting yours and your readers energies by squandering pagespace/webspace/braincells on covering a bad album by a bad band, why not cover a good album by a good band?

for fucks sake its not as if there's not enough of them around.

discourse is really important, but it should be constructive and useful. disses can be great fun, and immensely illuminating, but they should always try and say something that hasn't been said before (for instance, because a band's entire media coverage is otherwise composed of pr hype or rock n roll myth). they should bring something new to the table. contribute. keep things moving.

thats what all good criticism does.

david mc, Thursday, 5 December 2002 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with you, Douglas and David. Yet: I have a weird habit of enjoying an album, pitching a review of it and then completely turning against the thing. This happened recently, and the editor elected not to run it because he considers a negative review of a relatively unknown act (in the U.S. anyway) pointless. I agree with him, although I'd like to think the piece qualifies for Douglas' exception (but it probably doesn't). Clearly pages/space should be devoted to praising the unknown, rather than belittling it, if possible.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 5 December 2002 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, if you lived in L.A. for any significant amount of time recently, the Negro Problem gets namedropped by all the alt-weeklies several times an issue.

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 6 December 2002 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw The Negro Problem open for Blondie, and while they were competent, they really weren't to my taste at all. Their musical style was a poor match with Blondie's as well. They sound a bit like Hootie and the Blowfish.

Sean (Sean), Friday, 6 December 2002 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd have to either feel my review was funny or got at a larger point about music to bother. I tried to write about Mudhoney's disappointing new album but I couldn't work up the energy to slap them for a weak comeback when nobody cared about it.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 6 December 2002 04:10 (twenty-two years ago)

however, negative reviews of Known albums are very necessary. If you don't like a critic's pick (like DJ Shadow, ph. dull) take every chance to just SHIT ALL OVER IT.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 6 December 2002 04:11 (twenty-two years ago)

it's very zen... much like the tree falling in the woods. the next step is to write a negative review of an album that does not exist. do this, and you will recieve total consciousness and then explode.

sammu, Friday, 6 December 2002 07:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I find reviewing records often kills my enjoyment of them, which is why I generally don't. It's like I've got the record out of my system, 'solved' it so to speak. I hate that feeling.

Tom (Groke), Friday, 6 December 2002 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

How about if your band gets more bad reviews than actual copies PRINTED?

dave q, Friday, 6 December 2002 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that the editorial decision depends on who you're writing for. If you're writing for a massive national publication, then there's very little copy in giving an album that'll seel 17 copies 3/10. However, if you're turning stuff out for, say, a student newspaper that gets about four CDs a week in, you really have no choice but to run that review, or else just run large pages of blank space.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 6 December 2002 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I think if you're writing negatively about obscure or unknown acts, 'constructive criticism' should be the review's guiding force. Unless it's genuinely *awful*, in which case Hey! Hatchet Job.

Jason J, Friday, 6 December 2002 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

If it's unknown then reviewing it might give them exposure and if it's not very good perhaps you can take the chance to point out its failures and offer suggestions for improvement.

Most totally unkown bands would be happy to just have their names in print and hopefully, if they believe in what they're doing, they'll know that you're wrong anyway.

meirion john lewis (mei), Friday, 6 December 2002 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Yanc3y: NO! I only review records based on the band's bathroom wallpaper

This album must have been made for you! The title denotes the colour used on the walls etc, you see. (And the review would necessarily be better than the current, music-based one.)

OleM (OleM), Friday, 6 December 2002 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

sammu: much love, i laughed my ass off!

it's only worthwhile to write/print a negative review of an unknown artist if the REVIEW ITSELF is prima facie interestingz
Douglas, I think that's the best point made in this whole discussion.

I mean, it's gotta be okay to revew what you thought would be the Next Big Thing, even if it is a disappointment. As long as you do in an entertaining/interesting manner.

Here's a question for you: where I'm from (Denmark), nobody knows Swizz Beatz. I seriously thought he would reach a broader audience with his new solo album. Should I review his new record, even though i think that it stinks like hog's breath?

Jay K (Jay K), Friday, 6 December 2002 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Douglas expressed it perfectly -- if the review has utility outside "avoid this record you've never heard of," then consider running it. I might think differently if I was going to live to be 300, but since I'm going to be dead in 50 years or less, I've no time for slates of unknown bands, reading or writing them.

Why do people review demos?

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 6 December 2002 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

People review demos to give the bands who make them constructive criticism.

Another thing: Say you write for a publication that runs mostly lesser-known records. If you then say that you won't write negative reviews of lesser-known bands (ie most of the ones you're covering), nearly all the reviews in your publication will be positive. I think when that happens, people will be less inclined to trust your opinions. The negative reviews give the positive ones credibility (and vice versa).

charlie va (charlie va), Friday, 6 December 2002 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

People review demos to give the bands who make them constructive criticism.

That's cool, but why not just write them an email?

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 6 December 2002 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Because an email wouldn't garner them attention.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 6 December 2002 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Because an email wouldn't garner them attention.

That seems a little weird to me. When I write about music, I'm entering into a dialog with listeners, not bands.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 6 December 2002 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm saying from the band's standpoint, they would prefer something published, not an email. Only once have I reviewed demo type stuff, and it was because I thought it was great, but in my piece I actually made suggestions about how they could be better. It was a very positive piece, but the band emailed me, pissed at my constructive criticism...

Fuck, I just got another not-too-happy email from a band over something I wrote... This was super positive too!

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 6 December 2002 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

That seems a little weird to me. When I write about music, I'm entering into a dialog with listeners, not bands.

Don't you mean a monologue?

Do you mean a monolgoue?

Do you often discuss yr reviews with people who've read them?

Do you have a particular reader in mind?

meirion john lewis (mei), Friday, 6 December 2002 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't you mean a monologue?

Ideally, no. What I really hope for w/ all music writing is that it'll spur a discussion -- this is why I'm so jealous of the FT/ILM "Article Response." I hate it when a review or article gets posted & then disappears down a hole (as most of them do.) Just "having my opinion out there" is not enough for me. I'm more interested in learning than teaching.

Do you often discuss yr reviews with people who've read them?

Not often, but sometimes. People write me w/ questions or comments. Then there are music boards.

Do you have a particular reader in mind?

Yes, but it varies w/ where the piece will run.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 6 December 2002 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry about the messed up italics.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 6 December 2002 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I mostly agree with Douglas here -- however, there are instances when I want to pan a band who might be unknown to my editor but is far from unknown to me. I once turned in a review for an artist, and the response was "why the unsolicited pan?" Why? Because this guy usually puts out great stuff and this CD is no good -- too bad "nobody" had ever heard of him!

dleone (dleone), Friday, 6 December 2002 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree completely with Mark, and I sympathize with Dominique as well...

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 6 December 2002 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)


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