Pavement - Slay Tracks: 1933 - 1969/ Perfect Sound Forever/ Demolition Plot J-7 vs Big Black - Lungs/Bulldozer/Racer-X

I'll probably poll their first three albums vs other opponents later but first lets discuss these EPs

Pavement by miles and miles, I just listened to all 3 of those in a row two days ago

first shutout in ILM poll history?

The first two Big Black EPs are kinda lame, but Pavement are the enemy of all that us good in music and life, so…

Gary Young d. 8/17/2023
Steve Albini d. 5/7/2024

Big Black by a country mile, or any other type of mile you care to name. I loathe and despise Pavement!

Are you related to unperson?

Pavement haters baffle me, although it did take me 20 years to like Crooked Rain (these early ones and WZ are my faves)

I like these BB records just fine, but Bulldozer is a cut below the other two

Racer X and Perfect Sound is probably a tie though

Westing Can POLL

How were the Big Black EPs received at the time? Or were they really obscure then?

Racer X was the breakthrough because it was on Homestead, the two earlier ones were impossible to find back then as they were tiny DIY presses

I only heard Lungs circa 1987 b/c a college friend of mine was from Chicago and had a tape I think? but it was after I had heard Racer X and Atomizer

Racer X was the breakthrough because it was on Homestead, the two earlier ones were impossible to find back then as they were tiny DIY presses

Exactly this. Nobody really heard those first two records until they were compiled as The Hammer Party in 1986.

Which was the first LP i got by them 2nd hand in 1992.

who was the first band to cover Big Black?

I think Pitchshifter is the first and only?

Can't be the only!
Quick peak on youtube comes up immediately w St. Vincent covering Kerosene (i hate big black.)

Pavement never registered with me at all whereas Big Black were fun for a minute - which I guess was “Racer-X” time.

Taken as an album, the Westing collection is my second favorite Pavement after Slanted. Very dreamy beautiful vibe. The distortion is so gosh darn sexy.

I think Pitchshifter is the first and only?

I remember a Welsh band covering Kerosene in a Peel session ages ago, possibly in Welsh? Other than that not much, BB are not exactly the most coverable of bands! Don't think Rod Stewart interpreted them in his "Great American Songbook" series, for example.

"we're having a fish fryyyyy...."

I love Pavement but this is Big Black by a mile

Don't think Rod Stewart interpreted them in his "Great American Songbook" series, for example.

I'd love to hear him do 'Kerosene'.

Pavement "releases"* Slay Tracks in May 1989

(*Scott sending copies out to record labels, radio stations, fanzines, record stores, etc.)

Wedding Present covers "Box Elder" in September 1989 (by none other than Steve Albini) and releases it as a b-side to "Brassneck" in November 1989.

"Passing Complexion" released on Atomizer (not in this poll but the only analogue I could come up with) in 1986.

The Warlock Pincers supposedly sampled "Passing Complexion" on "Anthem Four" in 1988:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtXU97LA644

(I personally can't hear it but maybe it's a borrowed lyric?)

big black by multiverses.

very divided opinions here! interesting.

I remember a Welsh band covering Kerosene in a Peel session ages ago, possibly in Welsh?

Still one of my favourite things ever tbh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3GGzIP7sU0
Pop Negatif Wastad - Kerosene

I long to hear that on a dancefloor one day

wow!

That was amazing; thanks.

ah cheers! it is on bandcamp if anyone wants it:

https://ankstmusik.bandcamp.com/album/pop-negatif-wastad-by-gan-pop-negatif-wastad

I always like Big Black but other than Racer X, there really isn’t any of their top tunes on those early Eps.

idk I like "Steelworker" and "Dead Billy" a lot, can live without the rest

Dead Billy is a classic

Whoa thanks for the Pop Negatif Wastad tip!

Cables is a classic.

Pop Negativ Wastad is classic.

I long to hear that on a dancefloor one day

my friend Becky plays it out.

St. Vincent did a cover of Kerosene in a live show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVhCo7PoVpA

I'd never heard Pop Negatif Wastad before

my friend Becky plays it out.

my new hero! :)

Is Big Black a pun on the English translation of Albini or was there another reason for the name given?

Albini named his new musical project Big Black, calling the moniker "just sort of a reduction of the concept of a large, scary, ominous figure. All the historical images of fear and all the things that kids are afraid of are all big and black, basically."[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Black

lol did he ever recant on that one

Did he mean what you think he means or was he just talking about how the colour black is seen historically as evil

sorry to blow your mind here but have you considered that maybe those two things are related

like, the reason Europeans called Africans "black"and themselves "white" isn't based on the color of their skin

strains credulity to suggest that noted og edgelord Steve Albini would have been innocently unaware of the racial connotations of what he was saying there

Yeah, the Albini of 1982/83 was absolutely making the wrong/dubious choice there.

Common connotations of light vs dark go back at least as far as the Bible.

Right, God said, "Let there be Big Light".

I’m not gonna front like Albini wasn’t an edgelord or that he was completely unaware of the racial undertones of that statement but… this dude named one of his projects Rapeman, it’s way more likely that if he was trying to evoke racial imagery that he would have managed to work a Mandingo reference or something into that quote

I think it's pretty obvious he was trying to evoke racial imagery to scare the "white, straight" world.

I also think it's good that he came to acknowledge that he was young and dumb for doing this.

Great. Now I feel like such an asshole racist for wearing my Big Black Tools shirt back in the day. "Power Where You Need It"

Haha okay yeah that is more what I was alluding to; subtlety is not something Albini was known for

true and fair point. Racial undertones still present though, I think.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, don't feel inclined to ever really listen to either set of EPs these days although certainly I was into both in the past. Would give the edge to Pavement I guess just for not being all sweaty angry young white nerd music, something I'm never really in the mood for as an old man.

speaking of sweaty angry young white nerd music, I always assumed this cover was a completely different band who just happened to share the same name as pavement but then I saw it on their official bandcamp...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arVxGpjBxR4

Ha, yup that's an oddity, recorded Silver Joos style with SM & his girlfriend at the time. I think it's SWest on drums iirc?

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Who should I poll the 1st 3 Pavement albums against?

Sebadoh

I was saving sebadoh to run against a similar size group.

I think I have a good one for vs pavement which might cause some gnashing of teeth though

The Dead C vs. Sebadoh vs. Helmet

Maybe Stereolab? Seems like a contemporaneous band that could give Pavement a run for the money on this board.

Oh that could've worked too but I was already setting up
Pavement - Slanted & Enchanted/Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain/Wowee Zowee vs Fugazi - Repeater/Steady Diet Of Nothing/In On The Killtaker when I saw it

No problem. Just makes it an easier vote for me!

Pavement because I have never listened to Big Black and I doubt I ever will.

oh i would have polled pavement against belle & sebastian
they both grate and annoy but have some undeniably excellent songs
they are both beloved by indie rock ppl but there's that "if you tell anyone i like this i'll kill you" factor
both have influenced a lot of annoying bands who aren't necessarily trying to sound like them
etc
matador etc etc

also most importantly "whitest band you can think of" factor

Pavement haters baffle me, although it did take me 20 years to like Crooked Rain (these early ones and WZ are my faves)

― go polish your nose ring (sleeve),

this is a generational thing i have noticed where xers who grew up hearing more anodyne shit on the radio feel this is their best stuff and then older millennials who grew up when nirvana were the biggest band in the word regard everything before CR or maybe WD as "you had to be there" music

I guess we will always have to fight your generation then.

66 votes is quite good

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.