The Cure - Three Imaginary Boys/Seventeen Seconds/Faith vs New Order - Movement/Power, Corruption & Lies/Low-Life [x3]

Phew

I enjoy watching interviews with Robert Smith, and had a good time the one time I saw the Cure live (June 2000 — 26 song set including 3 encores), but I never listen to their records.

I listen to New Order (PC&L through Technique) all the time, but would never want to read or watch an interview with any of them, or see them live.

So yeah, New Order for sure.

I like the Cure's debut and several tracks scattered across their Doom Trilogy but after a while these albums tire me out. I prefer the dirges when they complement the pop material ("Sinking," "Prayers For Rain," etc.).

gotta go with the Cure here

Difficult! 17 Secs is right up there in Cure LPs for me - and Faith is very strong too. The debut is fun.

These are also three very good New Order LPs.

But I think there is more of what I love about The Cure in that selection than there is what I love about New Order in theirs, if that makes sense.

So The Cure, based not on overall quality necessarily, but on how much of the band's essential vibe is captured over the LPs in question.

Based on chronology and rough time equivalency - Brotherhood / Substance / Technique vs Standing on a Beach / KM3 / Disintegration MUCH more difficult choice!

Lol

well i'll leave the rest of the cure/new order albums to someone else.

this is the first of these polls I cannot contribute to and must abstain. Faith vs Low-Life alone is an impossible task

New Order in a heartbeat. There was a whole chunk of time when i was 14 when i listened to PC&L and virtually nothing else. Absolute perfect album imo. Crazy when you think of that whole run of beautiful singles they had at around that time - Temptation, Blue Monday, Confusion, Thieves Like Us - and that album doesn't need any of those at all

My heart says the Cure, part of my brain says New Order. These albums are all excellent, but both bands went on to make a few even better albums. I don't think I'm going to vote.

oh no a tough one

favorite album here is low-life…. seventeen seconds -> faith is undeniably the powerful arrival of one of the best bands ever…… agh

Movement is maybe my favorite album, easy choice. Would be marginally harder with Pornography in the mix instead

Technique vs Pornography would be equally impossible. Two unassailable, perfect records

Something about the comparison bugs me but I guess one nice parallel is that in each case there's a real "one of these albums is not like the others" vibe

The only one of these albums I have ever owned is Three Imaginary Boys, well actually it was Boys Don’t Cry. So The Cure gets my vote.

These albums belong to different periods, ie The Cure's are late 70s/early 80s and New Order is early to mid-80s. Not much difference in the larger scheme of things, but they feel like slightly different stylistic eras to me. It's strange to think Ian Curtis was still alive when 17 Seconds was released!

I got into The Cure and Joy Division / New Order at around the same time as a teenager, and I always thought of The Cure as playing catch-up when it comes to exploring lighter pop, but it's not really the case, e.g. "Let's Go To Bed" was only about six months behind "Temptation" and "The Walk" was only about three months behind "Blue Monday".

New Order came out of the gate with an astonishing album and then fucked up some brilliant songs by pairing them with bad unlistenable horseshit on their subsequent albums; they didn’t figure out how to put together another colllection of songs that really worked as an album until Technique.

The Cure started with an album that has amazing material mixed in with bad unlistenable horseshit and then worked over the next few albums to excise all of the bad unlistenable horseshit all the way up until Wild Mood Swings. They’ve always been a band who shines in the album format.

This is unquestionably The Cure for me.

I love the IDEA of little English Goth kids but the music mostly bores the shit out of me (though I like the Cure OK as a punky pop singles band)

so New Order, without the shadow of a doubt

the inconsistency of new order albums pre-technique is overstated. low life and brotherhood whip the whole way through

Impossible.

the inconsistency of new order albums pre-technique is overstated. low life and brotherhood whip the whole way through

― ivy., Wednesday, 16 October 2024 05:42 (nineteen minutes ago) link

Hard agree. If anything I am mystified by the perceived massive step-up for Technique - a great album but not materially greater in my view.

brotherhood is just as great as technique really, and pc&l is very good. low-life is a bit weaker but still good

the only cure album i really love though is disintegration which towers over the rest. there's a few good songs on each of these three but even faith isn't really compelling the whole way through

Extremely mean poll but the Cure because they're my all-time fave band and three of my fave of their songs are on TIB alone.

the inconsistency of new order albums pre-technique is overstated. low life and brotherhood whip the whole way through

― ivy., Wednesday, October 16, 2024 1:42 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

very otm

Technique gets the edge over their other wonderful albums imo thanks to its shimmering mix and Sumner; he finally figured out pitch and how to sing around and through his weaknesses without diluting the songs.

Technique pisses all over the two preceding albums. On par with PCL and Movement. That’s their holy trinity.
I think I’d rather listen to Republic than Low Life these days, but that’s prob just me

it sure is!

(just you - I find it impossible to understand that anyone would listen to Republic in preference to anything)

there's pretty much nothing to like about republic except "regret"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't mean to be all challopy but you should give it another go - stuff like Everyone Everywhere, Young Offender, Special is great, but I guess I'm more into Barney's balearic stuff. I always found Low Life tinny and dull (if not outright awful, eg Love Vigilantes).

"Everyone Everywhere" is a top ten New Order song and should get as much attention as "Age of Consent," "Love Vigilantes," and "Regret."

agree with DJP, post-Movement New Order albums were really uneven... although I differ in feeling Republic is the one where everything came together again!

and I think of this contest as Boys Don't Cry/17 Seconds/Faith vs Movement/1981-1982 EP/Power Corruption & Lies

omg the New Order takes! All we need now is someone to say Music Complete is actually the best one

there's pretty much nothing to like about republic except "regret"

― ufo

The first five songs on Republic are great and the last couple are good too. I still can't remember much about the songs in between apart. There's one called Young Offender that I remember not being as good as the Pet Shop Boys song from the same year.

Agree with people saying how strong Low-Life is which is my favourite album of the six here. Brotherhood was a slight step-down as that first side is a bit forgettable at times. Also, whichever song it is where it briefly goes into Love Will Tear Us Apart at the end makes me cringe every single time. The production is a bit muggy at times compared to Low-Life which is perfect. Technique will always be my favourite. It's everything I love about the band on one album.

New Order get my vote here. Overall, The Cure have way more classic albums though. Every New Order album apart from Power, Corruption & Lies, Low-Life and Technique have issues. The Cure have Seventeen Seconds, Faith, Pornography, The Head On The Door, Disintegration and Wish where I wouldn't really change a thing (maybe just swap out Wendy Time for This Twilight Garden on Wish if I'm being picky).

yeah all the hot takes about Republic not being the best New Order album ARE really irritating!

I think 75% of Low-Life is stunning. The problem is that I hate the other 25% with a fiery passion.

DJP looooves Sumner's vocal on "Subculture."

The only thing I would change about Low-Life is I'd rather have the full length version of The Perfect Kiss on there, but it's still one of my favourite albums ever anyway.

It is probably because I heard them first but I greatly prefer the Substance versions of “The Perfect Kiss” and “Sub-culture” to the Low-Life versions and “Face Up” annoys me to the point where I want to throw the entire album in the garbage.

Conversely, the stretch of songs from “This Time of Night” through “Sooner Than You Think” are among my favorite that they ever recorded.

xp Yeah that's my major wall to loving Low-Life. The Perfect Kiss 12" is one of my, say, ten favourite records ever made. The album version feels almost unlistenable. Elegia also suffers at that length.

Republic is interesting in that, beyond the opening track, there is absolute no consensus about the rest of it. I've seen every track cited as a highlight or a skip, multiple times. My other favs are World (even if Hooky's barely on it), Spooky, Chemical and Avalanche.

"Sooner Than You Think" has some of Sumner's best early lyrics imo

xpost I'm always surprised that World and Ruined In A Day aren't more popular. Maybe I'm influenced by all the Republic singles being my introduction to the band, but I always thought those were brilliant songs.

been listening to "At Night" on loop thanks to this poll, it's impeccable

Very hard poll. It's spooky season so I guess The Cure.

Seventeen Seconds is a monster of an album

omg the New Order takes! All we need now is someone to say Music Complete is actually the best one

― maf you one two (maffew12), Wednesday, October 16, 2024 10:14 AM

TUTTI-FROOTEE

The Boys Don’t Cry LP is immensely better than Three Imaginary Boys

yeah this would have made this more difficult

I'm not doing a 4th version!

technique
brotherhood
power corruption & lies
disintegration
unknown pleasures
low-life
movement
wish
the head on the door
unknown pleasures
closer
pornography
republic
the top
kiss me kiss me kiss me
faith
seventeen seconds
three imaginary boys

here's my ranking of the cure/new order/joy division albums up until the early 90s for obvious reasons, so you can all disagree

but even about 1/3 each of those bottom few cure albums are good

Which one is closer and why arent the JD albums at the top if you're going to include them?

nm i see closer now as well as 2 Unknown Pleasures

oh the first unknown pleasures shouldn't be there lol

Nah its so great it should be there twice, Just it should be right at the top IMO, lol

movement
pornography
closer
power corruption & lies
faith
low-life
technique
unknown pleasures
disintegration
seventeen seconds
brotherhood
republic
three imaginary boys
kiss me kiss me kiss me
the head on the door
wish
the top

Easily the cure for me. My favourite ever band. Never been that fussed about new order.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

OK, I'll do this:

Pornography (1982)
The Head on the Door (1985)
Disintegration (1989)
Unknown Pleasures (1979)
Technique (1989)
Closer (1980)
Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me (1987)
Wish (1992)
Power, Corruption & Lies (1983)
Seventeen Seconds (1980)
Faith (1981)
Low-Life (1985)
The Top (1984)
Brotherhood (1986)
Republic (1993)
Three Imaginary Boys (1979)
Movement (1981)

I might even put Japanese Whispers above PC&L and Kiss Me X 3 is underrated.

who underrates Kiss Me x 3?

can't resist, despite the fact that I still refuse to vote

Disintegration / Technique (sorry, spent way more time than I care to admit trying to determine a winner here, to no avail)
Pornography
Low-life
Faith
Power Corruption & Lies
Brotherhood
Seventeen Seconds
Closer
Unknown Pleasures
KMx3
Boys Don't Cry
the rest

Most do, just look at the other two lists. People say they should have cut it down to a single album or sub in some of this eras B-sides. I think a double album was a great idea as they were bursting at the seems with creative ideas. Sure, some of those B-sides songs are outstanding and some modifications would have made for an even better album but to cut it down to a single album is a ridiculous idea.

Xpost

We need to have a beer sometime Alfred

Ranking the six albums in the poll itself:

Low Life (by a distance)
Power, Corruption and Lies
Faith
Movement
17 Seconds
3 Imaginary Boys

Was a big Cure fan when I was growing up, but I'm increasingly allergic to Smith's performative miserabilism now.

I guess you wouldn't be interested in a new Cure album in about 10 days.

It just might be their ★

kmkmkm is incredibly patchy and even its most of its best moments ("just like heaven" aside) are fairly slight. it's no sign o' the times

I wouldn't call it patchy at all, the reason why you have a double album is to let your hair out a bit, something New Order would not dare do.

Side A

1. "The Kiss" 6:17
2. "Catch" 2:42
3. "Torture" 4:13
4. "If Only Tonight We Could Sleep" 4:50

"The Kiss" is right up there with the best Cure openers and you follow that up with the most infectious track next "Catch"

Side B

1. "Why Can't I Be You?" 3:11
2. "How Beautiful You Are..." 5:10
3. "The Snakepit" 6:56
4. "Hey You!!!" 2:22

I didn't like "Why Can't I Be You?" at the time but now is actually one of the Cure's best singles. "Hey You!!!" Is just so off the wall

Side C

1. "Just Like Heaven" 3:30
2. "All I Want" 5:18
3. "Hot Hot Hot!!!" 3:32
4. "One More Time" 4:29
5. "Like Cockatoos" 3:38

"Hot Hot Hot!!!" and "One More Time" are as about as opposite as you can get, why doubles are unique and sometimes necessary

"Just Like Heaven" is The perfect pop song

Side D

1. "Icing Sugar" 3:48
2. "The Perfect Girl" 2:34
3. "A Thousand Hours" 3:21
4. "Shiver and Shake" 3:26
5. "Fight" 4:27

Will admit "Icing Sugar" is the worst song here but "The Perfect Girl" is next. "Shiver and Shake" and "Fight" are just so charged... keep going with more I say.

Can I now talk about the B-sides from this time period?

KMKMKM is my favourite double album ever and my favourite Cure album and I wouldn't change a thing

and Icing Sugar is one of the best tracks! One of their best basslines, one of Boris' best beats, plus crazy squonking sax

My underdog favourite is Like Cockatoos. It's like Splintered in Her Head regrown in the rainforest, dark hues swapped for "lime green lime green and tangerine".

imo the best B-sides of the period, by far, are A Japanese Dream (Kyoto Song at Hot Hot Hot speed), esp on 12", and Breathe (their second best beatless tune after A Few Hours After This). I do sorta get why they're not on the album, particularly as the latter might feel unnecessary when we already have One More Time, but they're fab.

Yeah KMX3 (and Disintegration) is one of their few albums where I wouldn’t t swap any of the bsides. Perfect as it is

And Icing Sugar is probably my favorite song on it these days. Wish it was longer

KMKMKM was my favourite Cure album for ... about two decades, really. When I listen to it now, parts of it sound excessive and overblown ("The Snakepit"), were done much better on other albums ("The Kiss" < many songs on Pornography, "Catch" < many songs on THOTD), or too goofy for their own good ("Hot Hot Hot!!!").

I still love it, and I appreciate that it's supposed to be the wild west of Cure records, but I'd now rank it behind at least three of their other albums.

Yeah i wouldnt argue with that. With hindsight, some of the experiments are a bit wobbly but at the time it came out, this was such an imperial move - as in, there's not anything this band can't do.
Fight and Torture are the only ones I'd drop (although the latter would probably work with less dorky 80's instrumentation).

"Like Cockatoos" is top ten Cure imo.

Whenever I go back to Kiss Me (which is rare nowadays) it's for The Snakepit.

i wish they'd put "2 late" on disintegration even though i get why it wasn't on there. i don't have any love for "last dance" so i'd be very happy with a slightly lighter first half before the descent into the depths

Oh man, “Last Dance” rules

If there’s a weak song in Disintegration, it’s “Closedown”

i love "closedown"! "last dance" just drags for me, it's too static - just the same thing for nearly 5 minutes with little in the way of variation at all

"2 late" is just one of their absolute best songs though, way too good to be a b-side

The Robert Smith album i've listened to the most in the last few years is Blue Sunshine

Interesting that in the mid-80s both bands released singles compilations which, for a lot of casual listeners (myself included), overshadowed any of their proper LPs (at least up until "Disintegration").

My big ranking is identical to ufo’s… I have yet to see the light re: The Cure, I’m a late late late bloomer maybe

I rank Movement highest here, one of my fave albums; and I listen to Joy Division comps and live recordings more than their studio albums

My list:

Technique
PCL
The Head on the Door
Brotherhood
Low-Life
The Top
Wish
Unknown Pleasures
Faith
Republic
Movement
Kiss Me
Closer
Pornography
Seventeen Seconds
Boys Don't Cry

Where would you place Disinnagrashun?

Oh. Between UP and Faith.

Swore I wouldn't try but here is mine (couldn't be bothered including JD in there, I guess they would place somewhere btw Movement and Faith - fittingly enough)

Disintegration
Technique
Pornography
PCL
Kiss Me
The Top
Movement
Faith
Republic
Seventeen Seconds
Wish
The Head on the Door
Brotherhood
Low-Life
3IB

1) Standing on a Beach
2) Disintegration
3) Substance
4) Technique
5) Boys Don't Cry
6) The Head on the Door

no opinion on the rest

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

That's pretty conclusive

My expanded ranking (off the top of my head) which probably no one else will agree with:

Disintegration
Closer
PCL
Technique
Kiss Me
Head on the Door
Wish
Faith
Low-Life
Brotherhood
Unknown Pleasures
17 Seconds
Republic
Pornography
Movement
The Top
Boys Don't Cry

I'm doing the whole lot in order:

All 10s

Technique
Disintegration
Low-Life
Seventeen Seconds
Power,Corruption & Lies
Closer

Not as perfect, but still classics

Wish
Pornography
The Head On The Door
Faith
Unknown Pleasures
Kiss Me

Slight drop off, but still mostly enjoyable

Bloodflowers
Brotherhood
Republic
Three Imaginary Boys

Patchy

Music Complete
Get Ready
Movement
The Top

Only a few songs I'd save on each/the ones I know longer own

Wild Mood Swings
Waiting For The Siren's Call
The Cure
4:13 Dream
Lost Sirens

The first Electronic album would probably be between Low-Life and Seventeen Seconds. Some of Sumner's best songs and lyrics on that one.

I think Smith said he doesn't like The Top, but what the hell does he know. The Top is epic.

Smith not otm.

But then artists confuse periods of dissolution with artistic decline.

Does he really still hate The Top? During their 2016 tour, they regularly played songs from it.

"Piggy in the Mirror" at my Miami show.