In Hindsight...Worst Top 3 Pazz and Jop Album: 90s

Moby easy

Two to choose from!

Those Pavement records are pretty much everything I hate about indie "rock", but I once walked out of a record store without buying anything because I couldn't take one more second of whatever Sleater-Kinney album they were playing. Tough choice.

None are terrible, though if I bothered to play them Midnite Vultures and the maligned Arrested Development albums would most irk me.

I pulled out Play recently and it has aged like a carton of milk accidentally left behind in the trunk of a car over the summer.

A few days later I happened to listen to the Heavyweight podcast about the guy that let Moby borrow his cds
of field recordings and whatnot that he went on to sample for Play. Moby never returned the cds and he was a dick about it when he was finally tracked down and asked about it. “Oh, I don’t know, they’re probably in a storage unit and I can’t get them for you.” You fuck, get your assistant to order a copy from discogs and sign it “THANK YOU FOR MAKING ME MORE MONEY THAN GOD, I APPRECIATE IT SORRY I WAS AN ASSHOLE.”

What a jerk.

Out of Time. Really, I don’t get it. The other two R.E.M. albums here are much better—yes, even Monster.

I'm the opposite: Out of Time has deepened over the years, the second side in particular.

OK Computer. Should have been an EP with Airbag/Paranoid Android/Subterranean Homesick Alien/Electioneering - everything else is boring.

xp

I can’t stand ‘Shiny Happy People,” and I never really liked “Losing My Religion.” Most of the album tracks feel like throwaways to me. I realize I’m deeply in the minority, though.

xp interesting take -- "No Surprises," "Karma Police," and "Exit Music" are three of their biggest songs. And "Let Down" is one of their best.

Wow! I have no idea what to pick here. I love or like a lot of these and don’t know a bunch.

Ultimately maybe Moby, but I don’t know if I really loathe those records.

Probably Midnite Vultures or Arrested Development. The Moby albums…Play seems pretty minor and gimmicky, I should relisten to Everything Is Wrong, though.

I like all those R.E.M. albums, I think OOT sounds a bit minor because there are def a couple wacky tracks on there and some that feel a bit more mood and vibe than full songs but I think mood and vibe is one of their strengths, every one of their albums has some of those.

I've never felt the need to listen to a Moby album.

i like all of these tbh

the worst stuff on midnite vultures is so bad, i always forget that there's actually some cool stuff on it.

I do wanna revisit that Moby album someday, I was really into it as a teenager

amusingly the song that got me into it was "Bodyrock", I remember seeing the video on MTV and thinking the whole album was going to be like that. the song I really liked though was "Porcelain", I wonder how that's held up

the worst stuff on midnite vultures is so bad, i always forget that there's actually some cool stuff on it.

― brimstead

another album with a better flipside

I still kinda like “Porcelain.”

I only heard this recently - idk something like “Honey” might be formulaic but there's at least some effort there, but with “Run On” he's barely doing anything!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvG8JPl4Hlc

I ended up not voting. Even the ones that people have turned on still have strong merits that were always there - the flaws may be apparent and they may fall short of their best work, but I personally can’t dismiss any of them.

yeah I can't even remember what he does with "Run On", I think at the end there's like some strings layered over it or something

seems quite a bit lazier than anything Daft Punk did, even "Robot Rock" at least sounds like a proper remix

A few days later I happened to listen to the Heavyweight podcast about the guy that let Moby borrow his cds
of field recordings and whatnot that he went on to sample for Play. Moby never returned the cds and he was a dick about it when he was finally tracked down and asked about it. “Oh, I don’t know, they’re probably in a storage unit and I can’t get them for you.” You fuck, get your assistant to order a copy from discogs and sign it “THANK YOU FOR MAKING ME MORE MONEY THAN GOD, I APPRECIATE IT SORRY I WAS AN ASSHOLE.”

Moby comes off like a giant prick in every story I've ever heard about him, if I were a vegan I'd be pissed, there are so few famous vegans out there and one of them happens to be this fuckin guy

Sleater-Kinney (grating) or Magnetic Fields (too long, far too patchy - and i am a "points for ambition" guy)

after Midnite Vultures, of course. its presence here is like watching LeBron James play against high schoolers.

Sleater-Kinney were one of the first bands who had to teach me how to listen to them cuz I too found Dig Me Out abrasive on third listen.

Pavement and Sleater-Kinney are the only bands I don't actually like very much. Not bothered about several others - the Dylan, Neil Young or Lucinda records esp.

Play ofc a major critical hit before it actually started selling - arguably quite a long time before - but Moby likes to pretend both of these albums (but especially Play) were slated or ignored and that nothing happened for the latter until The Beach came out. (Tbh the story of Play is a total mess and I've never seen it told coherently) (though I do buy the idea of him making an album as though no one would be listening, certainly as by the time you get to the half-asleep doodles in the second half it hardly resembles a mega-acclaimed 12-mil selling blockbuster in any sense at all. It might as well be Echoboy or someone).

i still like "porcelain" (also "bodyrock" to a degree) but even at the time there was very little else i actually enjoyed on play. "south side" had that gwen stefani version as a moderate radio hit but i have never been compelled to return to any version of it since

Odelay

No real obvious clunkers here. But I feel bad for Moby. All the haters seemed to drive him over the edge. Face tattoos over age 50 are a cry for help, people.

69 love songs is basically three novelty records

still voting for 'play' tho

Dont truly hate anything here, but among the records I dont like I guess 69 Love Songs wins by default just because it contains the largest amount of music that i dont like

God bless ILM, the only place where people shit on 69 Love Songs.

Odelay has not endured for me. I don’t know if I played it to death because it was one of my favorites once upon a time, but there’s not much there for me anymore.

I voted Play, but would argue that Everything Is Wrong is vv good

I listened to Ragged Glory for the first time yesterday, and while about half of it moved me, the best album of 1990? (I'm admittedly ambivalent to Young's work, but no doubt this is one where critical consensus has since been revised.)

It appeared on the most submitted ballots, therefore it's the best album of 1990. Nothing more than that. Also, critics were so damn happy to have Young back after Freedom. I listen to Sleeps With Angels more.

Really interesting to contrast this thread with the other one. Ilxors were earnest followers of the critical canon in the 90's, heroic foes of critical orthodoxy ever since.

oh just wait til you see what i voted for.

Ilxors were earnest followers of the critical canon in the 90's, heroic foes of critical orthodoxy ever since.

You might be shocked how many old-school ilxors shaped the critical canon of the '90s.

critics were so damn happy to have Young back after Freedom

while ragged glory is a better album, wasn't freedom the one that brought neil back for most critics? (an A from christgau! "a classic neil young album," he wrote! and he was definitely not alone.)

That's precisely what I meant, though re-reading it I guess it looks like I exempted it.

(btw the comeback for me began with Life, no better or worse than Freedom, and accelerated with Eldorado)

voting for the dylan royal albert hall show, not bc it’s bad but bc it’s a bad choice

and in 1998!

ah, yeah, i read it the other way :)

i liked about half of life and maybe a third of this note's for you. eldorado knocked me out cold, and then the tour that preceded freedom was really special. freedom arrived basically as a given. i liked it a lot when it came out. but ragged glory was the one that really delivered on the promises of eldorado.

I am a proud Landing In Water stan

ON

(xpost to soto/neil, obviously)

Dylan's Royal Albert Hall show is his greatest record, IMHO, but I also think there should have been a rule that prohibits a recording of a decades-old concert (22 years in this case) from being eligible for the main poll. The reissues poll could've been rechristened as an "archival release" poll and that would've been fine.

Terrible math - 32 years.

I am a proud Landing In Water stan

― brimstead

otm

hey i don't wanna argue, but i had a longass post typed up about how much i hate that album for purely musical reasons that have nothing to do with anything other than how much i think sounds like not good music. it doesn't deserve to be mentioned alongside the best of its peers imo. i don't mean to be malicious about it at all. i just wanted to say re:grunge+90s radio rock haters: we exist. we mean no malice. we prefer dummy and ladybug mecca on blowout comb for good 94 sounds.

i do appreciate moby with the runaway win. that album's alright, but so mid in retrospect. i guess there's a reason it fit into commercials and stuff so well; just kinda becomes part of your surroundings. he's just a doofy uptight guy anyway. remember when he was all mad at eminem? i'm glad he made animal rights (maybe he has a sense of humor in the end?).

i'm listening to Live Through This for the first time in 30 years

to be clear, i don't believe the old urban myth that Kurt wrote these songs. i understand that myth discredits and dismisses CL and her band mates. i know some pre-date their relationship, and Erlandson/Pfaff wrote some.

but, like ... structurally, lyrically, dynamically, hook-ily ... they sound like Kurt songs. right?

The only Hole album I return to is the first one. I like the abrupt bursts of tape noise and found soundery and so on - wasn't that what Kurt wanted Bleach to be more like before feeling like Sub Pop were telling him to knock it off??

Not really. He liked being obscurantic, often effectively. Courtney Love, as ivy remarked, is precise.

xpost to myself (and agreeing w/ Alfred) - maybe less so lyrically, i should say. although there are echoes of him in there, imo.

I mean, to say that John and Yoko influenced each other will surprise no one. It's not a stretch to say, "Courtney influenced the shift in Cobain's writing."

but, like ... structurally, lyrically, dynamically, hook-ily ... they sound like Kurt songs. right?

― alpine static, Wednesday, February 26, 2025 1:53 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

who cares!!! and no i don't really agree

also i guess hate grunge music if you want but i can't think of an album that reflects my inner gross rat girl more than live through this, musically *and* lyrically

who voted for guyville? sheesh

that hole album gets at the experience of being a woman that no album in its genre or general time period remotely touches, except for, of course, that phair album

genuinely no shade if Live Through This does that for you, peace & love, but I would just say that ime the 1990s were an extremely rich time for such albums, LTT doesnt stand alone there imho. i like it fine but theres just a bunch of other records i reach for first when i want to go there

LTT doesnt stand alone there imho

I don't think ivy made this claim?

does "no album in its genre or general time period remotely touches" mean something else?

You're not used to ivy's posting style? Also, there's still this weird thing on ILX where "the best" and "my favorite" gets people's innards twisted.

You find other albums addressing the feminine experience more interesting? Awesome! No need to keep insisting on the point

i was really exaggerating!!! sorry. i already apologized lmao

my innards arent twisted, chill out alfred, tbh i was hoping to prompt discussion of other good albums that in the same vein, but i'm sorry for posting twice in 3 hours about liking an album a different amount than ivy likes it, jfc man

like i said, no shade ivy, i am glad you like that album and i like it too!

LTT might be my favourite album of the 90s, and if Kurt did write it all (he didn’t) then it’s the best album he was involved in imo

as soon as i made that post i thought "oh yeah, boys for pele," anyway i regret making a grandiose statement about womanhood as reflected through popular music of the '90s, there is just something about how gross live through this is that i do not get anywhere else

pee girl gets the belt :(

again i'm sorry if it sounded like i was nitpicking your statement of praise ivy, i didnt mean anyone to read that post & think "ivy is RONG" but rather "oh yes i am reminded of another good album like that from back then, perhaps i shall post abt it", much love to u

Jagged Little Pill would like a word!

I had a girlfriend that would blast Jagged Little Pill every time she was angry with me. All of those songs immediately trigger my fight or flight response.

Hole aside, I'm still waiting for the cowardly Sinead voters to step forward.

I hope they sleep with a clear conscience.

I didn't think they'd be hanging around here, but I've encountered a few Catholics who still demonize O'Connor for ripping up John Paul II's photo (without ever speaking a word about the church's protection of its sexual predators, which says a lot).

Catholic bots!

lol

Catholic Schoolbots Rule

I got a Catholic bot/Inside my head...

Stop killing the pope Sinead

Didn't vote, but I think I have and like most of these, some a lot. The result that surprised me was only one vote for Arrested Development. I've always loved "People Everyday" (my #1 single that year), liked "Tennessee" too, so the rest of the album never mattered that much to me. (Also, the album version of "People Everyday" is barely the same song as the single.) But I remember a time when there was a clear backlash against that album winning P&J--started almost immediately. I guess it's regained some stature over the years, or is so forgotten no one cares enough to think it's overrated anymore.

I think it’s hard to hate that album even if it was overrated at the time.

I don’t vote in worst threads but this was actually a good idea because of the discussion.

Bots can't vote, lol. 107 votes is actually pretty normal for these bigger polls.

i don't know that the arrested development album is forgotten necessarily, tho i doubt most people can recall any album cuts from it. (nb i've never heard the album)

i heard "mr. wendal" in a restaurant a couple weeks ago. it has some truly, shockingly bad lyrics like one noted above and the one that says slavery and genocide happened "over a racist grudge". but it's still a cute track to tap your foot along to

kind of love how 90s the result of this 90s poll is

also on team live through this is better than any nirvana record

are ppl actually serious about bots swaying ilm polls

Didn't realize that about "People Everyday." I guess this is the single mix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rp090dLRbo

Says "video unavailable"...The great version is the one that accompanies the official video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEEINM01G7U

Yup, same one.

I still don't get how "Dylan Live 66” can be voted worse than anything, let alone the albums on this list. I mean, most of this list is pretty good (I didn't vote) but.

are ppl actually serious about bots swaying ilm polls

― mookieproof, Thursday, 27 February 2025 03:14 (nine hours ago)

Only the catholic bots sent out by the mother superior

Googling Arrested Development I was astounded to learn they’ve had a dozen releases since 2000.

First time I thought of them in decades was when Speech turned up on a DJ Koze album. I had no idea they were still going.

When the Roots were touring with Digable Planets and the Jungle Brothers last year, certain stops had Arrested Development on the bill as well. It was tempting to see a second show just to catch them. (They weren't at the NYC show.)

questlove and speech are homies. not joking. back when quest used to post like a music fan on okp, there were several instances of him giving props (and also kind of implying that arrested development was one of the consensus picks among the members of the roots back in the 90s). when okayplayer was making an intentional effort to be a competitive online music hub, it used to be whenever speech released one of his new projects he got an automatic feature.

i got clowned relentlessly for liking them back in the day, so it was cool years later to see someone i really respected give them props also.

also xpost/clemenza otm- single mix of "everyday people" with the bob james beat is way better.

I will rep for a couple of these albums (yes even Moby) but taken as a whole, this list makes the 90s look absolutely godawful.

I like you, Halfway, but that was some 90s SNL shit.

― cryptosicko, Wednesday, February 26, 2025 4:04 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I didn’t mean to make fun of her or his appearance. I did mean to make fun of far-fetched theories why the “wrong” records received votes.

Austin: I thought the video and single were one and the same...I actually have a 45 of "People Everyday" bought from this company that was actually still making singles for jukeboxes in the early '90s (I think "jukebox" was in their name). I'll check that.

nice! i had this one. good one-stop shop for anybody who doesn't have time for the whole album. it was the video mix on this 45.