TS: Roxy Music songs vs. Bryan Ferry covers of RM songs

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I finally got around to buying Roxy Music last night. Since I have a way of doing these things backwards much of the time, I am much more familiar with some of these songs from Bryan Ferry's Let's Stick Together. Anyhow, I think I may prefer Bryan Ferry's solo versions. Yes, that might be because those are the ones I'm most familiar with, but I also think that Ferry attempts to lay bare the quality of the songs themselves (Sea Breezes, 2HB, Chance Meeting, Re-Make/Re-Model) as songs, which get lost a bit in the Roxy Music versions, which sometimes contain breaks for (to me) pretty pointless "wild" instrumental soloing (e.g., vaguely free jazzy saxophone and Manzanara's guitar, I guess, which doesn't do much for me in this case).

Finally having Roxy Music leaves me feeling about the same way toward the group as I did previously. Definitely better than average and very interesting, but I wouldn't say I like even half of what they've recorded. The odd juxtapositions of styles don't work well for me much of the time, and in many cases I would prefer to hear a straighter rendering of the songs that I do like.

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 7 December 2002 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I feel about a lot of Roxy Music songs the same way I feel about a couple of the tracks on the first two Kraftwerk album. In Kraftwerk's case, they get a nice groove going and then they feel a need to disrupt it and bringing it to a crashing hault. Roxy Music often take very promising melodies and then interrupt them with boring suiggly instrumental jamming, or yolk them to another melody which doesn't quite fit and might better stand alone as a different song. (This same problem turns up in more mainstream 70's songs from around the same time by, for example Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney.)

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 7 December 2002 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

This would inspire me to compare/contrast except I think all those discs are packed away already pending le move. Generally speaking I play Roxy more than Ferry solo anyway and heard the Roxy versions first, but I can see how going about things the 'wrong' way round would result in a different appreciation. It was Ferry's own kaleidoscopic approach towards other songs turned on his own -- if done one way, why not try another?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 December 2002 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

you CANNOT tell me the version of "Remake Remodel" on 'LST' even TOUCHES the original

― dave q, Saturday, 7 December 2002 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I hear what you are saying about the interuptions, but That is a part of roxy music that I like. FOr me it's exciting. I also like the boring instrumental parts because of the way it contrasts with the vocal parts. This may just be my progrockiness deep inside rearing its ugly head, but I think it would be worse if they divided the parts into different songs. Its like a long journey esp. in "If there Is something" It all builds up to the part at the end.

― A Nairn (moretap), Saturday, 7 December 2002 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

The original "Remake Remodel" is as excitiing as it gets for me. (this means *very*)

― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 7 December 2002 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

My spelling sucks. Ugh.

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 7 December 2002 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, of the Roxy Music covers on LST, "Re-Make/Re-Model" is the one that most stands out as an improvement over the original. Ferry's singing sounds more developed here. He has refined his own sound, but he hasn't refined himself out of existence a la some of his more recent solo releases. The chorus on the BF version is more satisfying (though I wouldn't mind if the back-up singers were quite the rest of the song). I feel myself more drawn into the groove on the BF version. Fans of Chic should at least give it a fair listen. The Roxy Music version rocks more, but is that necessarily a good thing? In the cases of these songs, I think they might be better off rescued from being rock songs. The instrumental squiggles are mostly kind of corny.

The two versions of "2HB" are rather close, though the RM version almost sounds like a demo. Again, I think Ferry's style is more distinctively his own here and more compelling. But the instrumental passages are better, overall, on the RM version.

"Chance Meeting" and "Sea Breezes" are a draw, though the second half of "Sea Breezes" is more annoying in the RM version. (More "avant-garde," but actually maybe more cutesy, unless they are the same.) The two versions of "Casanova" are also a draw for me. I like the voice doubling effect on the solo version though.

― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 8 December 2002 00:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Bryan Ferry's vocals aspire to the condition of middle eastern singing (not necessarily consciously, of course).

― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 8 December 2002 00:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm glad you're listening to these records, Rockist, they're some of my favorites. Care to elaborate on your previous post? I think I know what you're going for, but would like to hear more.

― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 8 December 2002 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think I can be all that precise about it. I'm sure his sound derives from other sources closer to home, but in a funny way his singing reminds me more of middle eastern singing than most of what I hear in Anglophone* pop music. He may be drawing from jazz singers, but I don't hear very different results.

He almost never sings in a straight line, if that makes sense. There are usually lots of quivers and tremolos (I guess). Also he is very deliberate about how much of the line he allows of his mouth, so there is the sense of it being carefully reeled out. He has a way of just f l o a t i n g the line he is singing.

Incidentally, I once had an Egyptian-American boss about my age who said something along the lines of: Bryan Ferry was one of the very few contemporary white singerers he enjoyed listening to, for what it's worth. (However, he was much more African-American identified than Arab-American identified; so it could just as easily have been making a comparison to black singers as to Arab singers.)

*I always feel pretentious using this word, but it's very useful.

― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 8 December 2002 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks! btw, I just saw him live, I was right at the front of the stage, and he sounded incredible; voice couldn't be stronger. He looked fab too; if you're wondering if he still has it he sure does.

― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 8 December 2002 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Argh, that's right, I missed his show here. :-( Well, I guess we traded off shows, Sean!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 8 December 2002 04:04 (twenty-two years ago)

OK LST RMx2 has a cool spooky feel to it, and point taken re singing (though i actually prefer the really weedy tone he had early on to the later mucoidal thing), but the Eno 'solo' in the original is the determining factor for me (also, when the Manzanera bit comes, you expect it's going to be some Page-esque shit and it's these retard glam chords instead! Ferry's bit is funny)

― dave q, Sunday, 8 December 2002 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Y'know when you're a singer in a band rite? And the first shit you do is all over the place and sounds like an 8-year-old and a veritable Scooby ham sandwich? And everyone loves it right? And you suspect they're taking the piss so you work on yr voice and stop smoking'n'shit and re-record it and everyone says "Hmmm I liked the other one better" and you say "Why!!!? It's one take and it cracks and its out of tune" and they say "Exactly! It sounds like the REAL YOU coming out" and you think "But not really because it didn't MEAN to sound like that" thus reaching that art rubicon whereas you must abandon hope of controlling how you 'reach' ppl or else turn back from ever creating anything ever of any worth? Well I wouldn't say Ferry turned back from his great and terrible gift only that a) the LST 'Sea Breeze' gives me that feeling, and b) a possible and very disturbing-if-significant clue to the evanescence of his gift was given by Johny Marr explaining why 'Bete Noire' sounded the way it did - "Bryan has no confidence"

― dave q, Sunday, 8 December 2002 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I think though that Bryan Ferry has the sort of voice that is almost begging to be developed and refined. You're obviously more of a rock person (Planet of the Rock People) than I am, so you are more enthusiastic about untrained singers. Honestly, in LST I hear BF achieving similar effects to those he managed on Roxy Music, but by more subtle means. His voice sounds not just more controlled, but he is doing things with it that he was't doing earlier. I don't think I can be more specific than that though, so I can't argue it any further. Bete Noire is a good album to bring up to make your point (though everything I've heard since then has also been disappointing to me). I still think that developing your skills gives you more possibilities, even if you may lose some of the possibilities you had when you were just raw.

Some of the Eno synthesizer stuff with RM, I do like.

― Rockist Scientst, Sunday, 8 December 2002 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I vastly prefer the versions on Let's Stick Together, especially "2HB," "Casanova," and "Sea Breezes." Roxy Music is one of the greatest bands ever, but they really only start getting good on their third album. The first two sound stilted to me, badly produced, and like the band just hasn't come together yet. But beginning with Stranded, they are in their (very odd) element: Bobby "Boris" Pickett totally obsessed by Sinatra and backed by the MGs. And I'd say Let's Stick Together is probably Roxy/Ferry's most underrated album.

― Burr, Monday, 9 December 2002 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

"yolk" for "yoke" ugh

― RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

this is a great thread

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:01 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

Revive.

― RS_LaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

It's worth mentioning that Ferry himself prefers the remade/remodelled version of "Casanova" from "Let's Stick Together," and has for a long time; all his live versions use the spare, electric-piano and bass arrangement. It's not better, it's just different - much more sinister.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

re. the Johnny Marr quote : Ferry now says he was very depressed during that recording, and in the years following it. His father had passed away, his marriage had ended...

― Fanboy 3, Sunday, 25 February 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

Hm. I'd like to know where Johnny Marr made that quote. It's quite interesting in context.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 25 February 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

I like the Roxy covers on Let's Stick Together, especially 'Casanova', much better than the original.

― zeus, Monday, 26 February 2007 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

I liked their b-sides..

"The Pride and the Pain" and "The Numberer"

― Mark G, Monday, 26 February 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

If anyone wants to donate them, please let me know.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 26 February 2007 16:02 (eighteen years ago)

"I liked their b-sides..

"The Pride and the Pain" and "The Numberer"

Mark G"

Wasn't

"The Pride and the Pain" and "The Numberer"

Andy Mackay being let loose? Remember Wild Weekend? : )

― roger whitaker, Monday, 26 February 2007 23:40 (eighteen years ago)

"I liked their b-sides..

"The Pride and the Pain" and "The Numberer"

Mark G"

Wasn't

"The Pride and the Pain" and "The Numberer"

Andy Mackay being let loose? Remember Wild Weekend? : )

― roger whitaker, Monday, 26 February 2007 23:40 (eighteen years ago)

"I liked their b-sides..

"The Pride and the Pain" and "The Numberer"

Mark G"

Wasn't

"The Pride and the Pain" and "The Numberer"

Andy Mackay being let loose? Remember Wild Weekend? : )

― roger whitaker, Monday, 26 February 2007 23:40 (eighteen years ago)

Note to self - don't post the same message twice

― roger whitaker, Monday, 26 February 2007 23:45 (eighteen years ago)

A friend of mine used to regale me with stories about his experience playing on Avalon. The extremes that Ferry would go to to relize some sound in his head were extraordinary (I seem to recall being told a large, long tube of some sort was run down a studio hallway with a bass drum at the end. Like, reverb just wouldn't do.)

I say this with admiration: Ferry really seems like a guy cursed with either hearing exactly what he wants in his head or hearing a million versions of what might ork and never quite sure which one will do the trick.

RE: Casanova. The RM version sounds like a drunken pub brawl about to get really nasty at any moment; the solo version sounds like stalking. They both work, and maybe show that Ferry's stregnth as a writer is in the mutability of his work.

― i, grey, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 08:14 (eighteen years ago)

i]A friend of mine used to regale me with stories about his experience playing on Avalon. The extremes that Ferry would go to to relize some sound in his head were extraordinary (I seem to recall being told a large, long tube of some sort was run down a studio hallway with a bass drum at the end. Like, reverb just wouldn't do.) [/i]

David Buckley tells a similar story in his Roxy/Ferry bio -- of Ferry and producer Chris Thomas asking for 100 takes of a particular bass line.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 11:57 (eighteen years ago)

five years pass...

Ferry's new solo album is jazz age covers of RM songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og1fQagFYiA

― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 27 November 2012 18:52 (twelve years ago)

Maybe my jazz vocal chops are lacking, but I'm trying to sing/hum "Do The Strand" over that and it's not working.

― By the end of my second term, Gingrich said... (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 27 November 2012 19:40 (twelve years ago)

Was it, Roger? I never knew...

― Mark G, Tuesday, 27 November 2012 19:44 (twelve years ago)

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