Taking sides - hating popular albums: The public's problem, or yours?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

A lot of people seem to cling to one of two viewpoints regarding an acclaimed, canonized or heavily-hyped album they don't like:

1) "Damn stupid gullible public/media/critics, slobbering over some stupid crap that doesn't deserve to be popular"

2) "Everyone's telling me how great this album is, but I just don't get it. What the hell is wrong with me?"

I've noticed that in the past year I've gone from the former to the latter in my predominant approach to dealing with such situations. (ILM peer pressure? Ha ha j/k) Which one makes more sense - damning a lemming-like public, or having little confidence in your own tastes (to put it in as exaggerated a contrast as possible)?

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 7 December 2002 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

well, neither!

albums=critics?
singles=public?

perhaps less so in america though

the first seems a bit silly, as regards the public (less so with critics but even then...). the public is never wrong.

damning the public seems a strange thing to do, although it can be interesting why xyz makes it, but pqr doesnt. especially in relation to timing, why does xyz strike a chord at a particular time? but perhaps not at another?

as to disliking popular records being *your* problem, well, i dont know, dont forget, no matter, how many people like a very popular record, more people dont, so you're actually in the majority!

― gareth (gareth), Saturday, 7 December 2002 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Depends on if you've heard the album, how many times, whether or not the track you heard was 'representative' (let's say "could easily be mistaken for one of over half the cuts on CD'), how you feel about not liking it, how you feel about actually feeling something about not liking something, whether or not there is an ulterior motive in liking the album (are you going to be quizzed on it by somebody whose feelings about a)you b)themselves may be affected and you don't want to be in a position where you must lie about your feelings because a) you're not good at it, or b) you've been told that you're not good at it?) and whether or not you're honest enough to admit it, etc

― dave q, Saturday, 7 December 2002 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn the public, damn them! People are lazy and mostly like whatever they're told to or whatever's in front of them, hence McDonalds, Starbucks and Atomic Kitten. Popularity is no indicator of value.

― Zora (Zora), Saturday, 7 December 2002 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I tend to swing more towards Zora's viewpoint. Especially in the States, the more popular something is, the more it tends to appeal to the lowest common denominator of humanity. I also tend to have a low estimate of the general intelligence of our population. For example, people here seem to love George W. Bush even though the policies of his administration unduly benefit the wealthy at the expense of everyone else, more so than any administration since Reagan. Much of our population seems to think that Islam is some kind of Satan-worshipping religion even though the Q'uran not only validates much of Christianity, but also treats the Christian savior as a holy prophet second only to Mohammed.
Unfortunately, people in general are intellectually lazy and can't be bothered to actually think about anything. Therefore I tend to find the most popular albums inherently suspect, and I am generally not proven wrong upon listening.

― webcrack (music=crack), Saturday, 7 December 2002 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd rarely damn the public, since its their hard-earned cash they've decided to blow. But I also won't assume anything's wrong with me (or else, why am I writing?) - which isn't to say I don't give hailed albums I dislike more chances than ones everybody agrees are wack). If I bother to hate on a fanbase, which I try to avoid, it would be the critics. They're paid, often get albums for free, and should be more cynical.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 December 2002 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

") "Damn stupid gullible public/media/critics, slobbering over some stupid crap that doesn't deserve to be popular"

2) "Everyone's telling me how great this album is, but I just don't get it. What the hell is wrong with me?"

I wouldn't really say either. I would never say "what's wrong with me?", but I wouldn't really say "damn the public" either. I think the public can buy crap in their droves sometimes, but if I've established in my head that popularity doesn't equal quality, I wouldn't really start saying that a crap band "doesn't deserve the popularity they're getting". If popularity isn't a mark of quality, then what is it the band have or haven't done to "not deserve popularity." They deserve it, because they did whatever was needed to become popular. Doesn't make them good or bad, but I wouldn't get worked up about it.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 7 December 2002 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate can be sooooooooo neurotic sometimes!

― James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 7 December 2002 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

It seems as though it would also depend on whether you have an egocentric or objective view of what constitutes "quality" music. I often dislike pop songs that have slick, generic production and inane lyrics because they bore me. Does this mean they aren't "quality music"? Sure, to me it does. However, I don't necessarily think that the public should all subscribe to my viewpoint. I don't think that Avril Lavigne should stop making albums--there is obviously a market for them, and a demand.

As long as there is music out there that I like, it doesn't matter. So really it isn't anyone's problem; everyone gets what they want. I won't like Christina Aguilera and the general public won't like Enon, but we both have something we like to listen to.

― webcrack (music=crack), Saturday, 7 December 2002 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate can be sooooooooo neurotic sometimes!

I wonder why that is.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 7 December 2002 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Does cocaine make you neurotic?

― James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 7 December 2002 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

James Blount in "pretending not to notice what a little shit trife is being" non-shocker!

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 7 December 2002 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd bet you're actually less angry with ethan and more angry with yourself that you let him get your goat so easily

― ron (ron), Saturday, 7 December 2002 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i think of it like this: just because you have 'good' taste doesn't mean you have to appreciate everything of value. this is the same reason that i feel lucky to be with my girlfriend even though i didn't have to fight off a lot of competition to get her; i see things in her that noone else does, and vice versa.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 7 December 2002 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate: I've met trife (at a Huddle House nonetheless!) and he's a sweet kid, kinda. If it's any consolation I was always rude to him when he came into the record store I used to work in (I confused him with this other kid (a punk rocker nonetheless!) who looks just like him). I sold Padgett his copy of Star Time (on 9/11 no less).

― James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 7 December 2002 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I always go with #2. It never fails to piss people off.

― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 8 December 2002 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

de gustibus non disputatum est ... that sums it all up wr2 music, no?

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 8 December 2002 00:31 (twenty-two years ago)

... though that certainly doesn't preclude me from declaring certain pop songs as irredeemable crap (always in my not-so-humble opinion, of course) -- shit, those who don't like what i like aren't very demure or polite in voicing their dislike, are they now?

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 8 December 2002 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

(also doesn't preclude me from hitting the damn "submit" button 2x)

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 8 December 2002 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Webcrack - you don't think there's a difference between the level of intelligence needed to 'get' geopolitics and the level of intelligence needed to 'get' pop music?

― Tom (Groke), Sunday, 8 December 2002 08:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Good call. I work with a lot of extraordinarily smart folks who can certainly get geopolitics. But they like a lot of stuff musicwise that I find trite and at best underwhleming. I don't think that most people are intellectually lazy - they're either poorly educated (not their fault, usually) or they simply exercise their brainpower in different arenas, like sports statistics. The people in the cubicles around me who can speak at a minimum three languages are not intellectually lazy in the least - they just don't really care about music like we do. Matt Black of Ninjatune said as much in an interview I read once, and it rings very true.

Dismissing someone as intellectually lazy because they don't take pleasure in digging around the music shop for a rare Comsat Angels album (before they got signed to Jive) or surfing the net for hours looking for Birdman records distributors is pretty intellectually lazy in itself.

― Tom Millar (Millar), Sunday, 8 December 2002 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom E - geopolitics = pop tho

― dave q, Sunday, 8 December 2002 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I like to think that I've had a reasonable understanding of geopolitics since my mid-teens, which was also the time my music tastes went indiepop. I loved the first Spice Girls single, I understood exactly what it was doing, I just didn't think it was anywhere as good as Pash's "Doowop". These days I think "Wannabe" is one of the great singles of the last decade, while I haven't listened to Pash this millennium. The accusation I would make against my past self is of not seeing the wood for the trees.

Does this mean the trees are always there? To stretch my metaphor to breaking point, what my eight months on ILM have taught me is that you plant the trees yourself. My friends may choose to plant in Avril's ground; I plant mine elsewhere. This means they'll get more out of Avril than I ever will. But do I get more out of the Mekons than they do out of Avril? I'd say yes, but remembering how much I used to love Pash's "Doowop", I'm not sure.

Therefore:
1. Hating popular albums doesn't really detract from your enjoyment of music.
2. But why bother hating them in the first place?
(3. should be either "taste doesn't matter much" or "taste doesn't matter as much as you think it does". I'll let you know when I've figured out which one.)

― B.Rad (Brad), Sunday, 8 December 2002 12:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Strange nobody's mentioned 'first impressions' here! As in "Arrrghhh, get that shit off! Oh, it's Pauline Oliveiros, let's have another listen" or "Yeah this is cool burn me a copy - WHAT!? Bon Jovi!??"

― dave q, Sunday, 8 December 2002 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never had that problem except once when I was a smug IDM asshole and I called a radio station to ask who was playing - Fatboy Slim, they said! A remix, they said. I went hunting for it the next day and now I just listen to whatever sounds good. Unfortunately none of the radio stations around here answer the phone.

― Tom Millar (Millar), Sunday, 8 December 2002 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Toms, you are correct to point out the flaw in my first analogy--my frustration with the Bush administration's manipulation of the American public sometimes gets the best of me. However, I believe my second post clarifies where I am coming from. I don't believe that the public is necessarily bad for liking what they like, but I refuse to question my own musical tastes because my quality-music paradigm differs significantly from that of Billboard magazine.

Tom Millar, I understand your point that interest in music does not automatically make someone intellectually superior. However, that was not what I meant to imply. I would not consider someone who spoke three languages to be intellectually lazy even if they hated all music. I'll wager, though, that you will have a much easier time finding obsessed music aficionados than trilingual Americans. True, I did not phrase my points with clarity, but I stand by the generalization that Americans often tend to be intellectually lazy.

― webcrack (music=crack), Sunday, 8 December 2002 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

If you worked where I work you'd have a hard time not tripping over trilingual Americans just trying to go to the restroom. Music aficionados are much harder to come by, as languages are a cheaper and dare I say more useful hobby. So are computers and ham radio for that matter. Oh well, at least we're not Warhammer: 40k losers.

I'm still not certain what you mean by 'intellectually lazy'. Not sure if it's still important to the discussion about mass popmusic chart love vs. Boredoms fans.

'Mass Popmusic Chart Love' = better album title or band name?

― Tom Millar (Millar), Sunday, 8 December 2002 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

'Mass Popmusic Chart Love' by Radiohead...

― Callum (Callum), Sunday, 8 December 2002 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

BTW I've never heard of the Comsat Angels.

and album name, definitely. Four word band names=prog or pretentious.
'Mass Popmusic Chart Love' by U2.

― webcrack (music=crack), Sunday, 8 December 2002 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Four word band names=prog or pretentious.

So which one is Rocket From the Crypt?

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Sunday, 8 December 2002 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

There are exceptions to every rule, obv.

but does 'the' count for the four-word prog/pretentious rule? I'm not sure...

― webcrack (music=crack), Sunday, 8 December 2002 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

my view point is:

"Everyone's telling me how great this album is, but I just don't get it. But you know oh well"

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 8 December 2002 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

If "the" don't count, then "Pretty Girls Make Graves", maybe?

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Sunday, 8 December 2002 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Rocket From The Crypt is totally pretentious. Stealing your name from Rocket From The Tombs definitely qualifies them for that, as do phrases like "Rocket From The Crpyt Play Dead Music" in their liner notes.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 9 December 2002 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate, you are determined to disprove my thereom, and doing a fine job of it. I love PGMG and don't consider them anywhere near prog or pretentious. I was thinking more along the lines of 'Anderson, Wakeman, Bruford and Howe' style names--and the fact that mass popmusic chart love sounds utterly pretentious to me.

― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 December 2002 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is hating albums (popular or otherwise) anyone's problem?!?! Why would anyone dwell on this?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 9 December 2002 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

me = sad

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 9 December 2002 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.