Babyshambles Fans: What was the Pull?

In light of Shambles coming back with a new single after more than a decade, I wanted to ask a question to earlier fans and anyone who happened to attend live shows. (I guess this would be UK fans and any other european fans. To my knowledge, Doherty got arrested before he could perform in the states.)

I was having this discussion with my friend (has no idea who they are and had never listened to them) about the infamous 2004 Astoria gig and she asked why the fans were so fanatical. I know they aren't the first rock band in the world to have a rabid fanbase but the levels that it went to (riots, stalking the lead singer and stealing his personal affects) were crazy even by today's standards. There were also other incidents like shouting an opening band off stage because they wanted to see Pete perform, and antagonizing other members of the band when they were off-duty. Where did that level of loyalty and fanaticism come from? What about the music or the band as a whole evoked that? My theory was that this was partially due to the Libertines being one of the first bands to popularize guerilla gigs in the UK. I assume that playing in fans' basements and living rooms probably fostered an environment of intimacy. Doherty would friend people indiscriminately on Myspace, so I can imagine, this also lended to an image of accessibility. So was it Pete's propensity for knowing how to uitilize technology to make connections? Was there some bleedover from people who liked the Libs? I looked at older Ilxor threads and I know there's not a whole lot of love for them, but would be nice to hear in fans' own words - or even anybody who was there to witness the maybe not so humble beginnings of Babyshambles - what exactly the appeal was.

it's a perfectly awful meeting of pre-internet indie people in average bands being FAMOUS due to the indie papers AND the broadsheets; tied with (as you described it) the band intentionally inspiring parasocial fandom, the type of which we probably associate more with pop-stans nowadays.

just had an awful shiver-down-the-spine thought "what if Richie Edwards existed in the internet age" and it's not a good thought.

stealing his personal affects

I see what you did there

I had pints with Dan Bejar a couple months ago, remembering that he publicly proclaimed himself a fan of “Down In Albion” after it came out. His endorsement had led me to seek it out and listen to it, and I was perplexed about its appeal from any angle, after I listened to it. The Kilimanjaro—“kill a man for his giro” pun was insulting to consider that Pete would not only write an entire song around it but record it, twice. The “fuck forever / if you don’t mind” rejoinder presented the most concentrated version of that most tiresome lyrical tendency in English music, when a singer follows an incendiary proclamation with an assertion of off-handedness (see: Morrissey). I remember that the album suddenly became a reggae record for at least one song. I still have these memories of listening to “Down In Albion” rolling around my head, twenty years on— the recorded definitely made an impression! A bad one! So I asked Dan about it. He said his affection for Babyshambles and Doherty was more of a preference for “how a rock star should be”— emblematic of busted living. I said I didn’t agree, that seeing a rockstar burn out like that didn’t appeal to me, that it made me sad, but that I did at least partially understand his position as the appeal of (my personal favourite busted rock star lyricists) Shaun Ryder and Shane MacGowan certainly did intersect with their addictions. Then we spoke enthusiastically about our favourite Happy Mondays lyrics for a while.

just had an awful shiver-down-the-spine thought "what if Richie Edwards existed in the internet age" and it's not a good thought.

i can see him as someone who “deliberately inspired parasocial fandom”, sure, but he did this in part by making people with anorexia and self-harm disorders feel seen, and also the number of rock stars not named Richey Edwards whose political views are worth listening to is remarkably small. Comparison to Doherty is a low blow

I had zero investment in the Libertines but I thought Babyshambles had several killer rock tunes ("French Dog Blues," "Can't Stand Me Now"). that was the extent of it, I thought those songs were fuckin excellent

Back in 2007, living in America where of course Peter wasn't allowed, I became an admirer via boots of their pre-Shotter's Nation live shows. Peter had a way with a melody, and I love his sad, lazy drawl. The band sounded loose but committed. And it was fun gauging how out-of-it Peter was by whether he could play the riff on Sedative or not. Or so I thought. To this day I don't know whether Peter was in fact the guitarist that riff fell to.

I still think of them fondly, but revisiting their studio work now and then over the years hasn't rekindled anything in a major way. I don't go on Babyshambles benders. In theory, I'd like to. It might be good to check back on those '07 boots, if they're still somewhere to be found.

I was still an active fan when Grace/Wastelands came out in '09, so it's not like it was a couple-month fling either.

more like Shabbymumbles amirite?

There was a "fly on the wall" documentary which was ostensibly about Pete (and Kate Moss) but was really about the maker's obsession with them. The end had the guy reflecting (post therapy, clearly) about it. Darkly fascinating.

^ oh that's innaresting!

Turns out The Blinding EP is a beautiful little work. Is the first Babyshambles bender in sixteen years at my door?!

I was about 15/16 when this album came out and the kids at school primarily still read the NME (or Kerrang) for any pop culture. It would get discussed every Wednesday, even by people far less music-nerdy than me. The NME treated Doherty as king. It felt like he was on the cover at least once a month. There was always a new story. Being caught with Kate Moss at most probably the height of her fame seemed like a massive story too. And every other band sounded like a knock off, encouraged by the NME so they had Doherty like content (now known as indie landfill). The Libertines weren't the greatest band ever - but they were better at being the Libertines than their imitators, so it seemed like a self fulling prophecy.

Of course it was all tosh and I don't think any of the UK bands from that era really sustained a "big" career out of it.

think a friend of mine took me to see them at some tiny Student Union gig when I was visiting her, but tbh I'm not 100% sure. i remember an incredibly rowdy young crowd and possibly they came on very very late and played a few tunes but I can't be certain, sorry.

FGTI otm re Kill a man giro; even the thought of it makes me cringe to near-death

about 15 years ago I went to see Zounds & the Astronauts in Camden, for some reason Babyshambles had been added as surprise extra headliners going on after Zounds. it was very weird, they tried to charge me extra when I went in because I'd bought the ticket before Babyshambles were added to the bill, and it was now £10 more than when I bought the ticket but I refused and they let me in anyway.

Zounds weren't pleased about what happened to the line up/ticket price and complained about it during their set and played a gig for free a couple of weeks later to make up for it.

I was going to check out a bit of Babyshambles just to see how bad it would be but it became obvious they were going to keep people waiting so I went home

btw JCLC one of the songs you said you liked is by the Libertines not Babyshambles (Can't Stand Me Now)

but was really about the maker's obsession with them

was this the one all about his quest to get an interview with doherty, and when he did his first question was "why did you call your band the libertines" ?

I don't think so, dunno.

The doc maker apparently helped write the b-side of the first babyShambles 7", dunno if he got a credit or if he was making larger that he was in the room at the time.

Someone must remember this, surely?

this was the one I saw, or saw part of before switching off as it was rubbish:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_Pete_Doherty

That's him, yeh

Babyshambles bender is a yes, apparently. Down in Albion sounding awesome.

very confused by Stalking Pete Doherty, why would anyone put out a documentary that makes them look like such a deluded obsessive wanker? humiliation kink maybe? but the guy is a media studies lecturer and his students will presumably all have seen it.

Carlish subsequently worked as planning manager for Great City Attractions,[5] a Ferris wheel operator which collapsed in 2012.[6]

Now residing in the "where are they now" file.

(xp) Oh right, that's where he is.

That Max Carlish / Pete Doherty documentary that was on UK TV...

Yeah, we discussed it...