Rush: Progressive Perspective

Am I badly misinformed?

Best's gotta be Moving Pictures...

Peter, I'd suggest listening to some of the late 70s stuff before making that judgment (about pushing the boundaries of music). I do think that they were pushing the boundaries of post-Zeppelin hard rock/metal in terms of rhythm, structure, and sonics at that time. Particularly notable in this regard are "Hemispheres", "Cygnus X-1", and the "2112" overture. Many bands have taken up these projects since then and kept up with later developments in rock music, however, while Rush have mostly left them behind. Voivod did some great things with a unique space-math-prog-punk-metal sound in the late 80s and early 90s and put on a great show this year. Math rock bands have also been pushing rock rhythmically and structurally, sometimes sounding a little bit like Voivod or even old Rush. I particularly like Lungbutter who also incorporate free jazz, atonal, John Zorn/Fred Frith, and RIO elements. Even System Of a Down do some interesting things with choppiness and angularity (and wacky vocals) in a metal context. Dominique could probably tell you more than I could about underground prog but I often hear interesting things going on there, stuff since the 80s. I like some things by 5UU's/U Totem and some things I've heard by Ruins. Bands like the Locust, Camera Obscura, and (from what I've heard) Liars mix loud, sometimes choppy guitars with electronics in a contemporary way. Hell, so do Andrew WK and Avril Lavigne. Sonic Youth's live playing this summer was more impressive in its precision and intricacy than Rush's was.

I was listening to MP3's of some of Rush's 80s and 90s stuff today and realized how little I like whole eras of their output. "Subdivisions" was a decent synthpop track but after that, yech. Even "Distant Early Warning" sounds like a shit Police impression with half-assed vocal. It surprises me that I like Vapor Trails, given all that. It's fairly straightforward alterna-rock but it's hard and energetic, the vocals and melodies are mostly strong, and the playing is fabulous and doesn't sound dated. It may well make my ILM Reader's Poll list, though that might just say more about how slow I am to keep up with new releases.

Listening to rock radio, watching the Power Hour, and taking guitar lessons at the tail end of the 80s, I sort of had them spoon-fed to me all the time as master musicians and Canadian rock heroes. I got into Moving Pictures and to a lesser extent 2112 in middle school. I discovered Sonic Youth, shoegaze, and math rock in high school and thought that was more progressive and relevant for the time. That was also when "Nobody's Hero" came out. They became harder to defend. I started to deride the older stuff as cheesy and passe and the continued success of the entire enterprise as proof of the hollowness and corruption of the mainstream music industry. I picked up 2112 out of nostalgia and curiosity at a garage sale last year and got interested in checking out the rest of their old material. I was hesitant to listen to the 80s production on Moving Pictures again but it won me over eventually. It really has some beautiful intricate music. "Tom Sawyer" fascinates me because there are so many ways to hear it, like a post-Zeppelin anthem and a post-Kraftwerk electronic track at the same time; the 7/8 synth break feels like skating on ice but the minor-key bassline in the verse sounds foreboding and the voice and synth at the start sound like they're out of a wonky sci-fi flick; the crescendos and the guitar solo are triumphant bombast but the bassline at the end sounds almost wistful the way it pushes up against the descending synth riff. And it's all set to a ridiculous lyric that deflates Randian heroism with semantic gibberish. "Red Barchetta" may be my favourite because the whole song feels a little like a country drive, with breezy ambling bits and wilder curves and speedier moments. I think they were a great band for an era (though that era has passed and we've probably discussed them enough).

I like All the World's a Stage, which I think is their first live album. It's not very produced at all. The surprising feedback middle section in "By-Tor" is worth it.

(basically, all of the top half of that list are essential)

punk then successfully introduced the claim that readymade chartpop harmony + curtailed bubblegum songlength and simplicity were CLASSIC rather than DUD

today, 25 years later, indie, heavy with a revisionist reading of punk as anti-chartpop, sticks (as a rule) with the readymade ancient-chartpop harmony + curtailed bubblegum songlength and simplicity, while current chartpop is somewhat more rhythmically and harmonically elaborate (and tremendously more elaborate and varied than 60s chartpop)

thus the word for "prog" in the 21st century is "indie", even though current chartpop actually demonstrates many of the prog virtues/vices

this argt has been brought to you by CONFUSE TO BE CLEAR productions

As I recall, Rush has gone to great pains to distance themselves from the prog tag. I agree with the sentiment that their late 70s stuff is the proggiest, but even that isn't in the Yes/ELP/Genesis/Gentle Giant vein.

my theory is sort of jokey obv, but it has a KERNEL OF INSIGHTFUL TRUTH!!

(maybe)

The Fall.

Sonic Youth

Considering how good a musicians they are, I cannot fathom why they wouldn't want to incorporate more chance and improvisation into their music, especially this late in the game. It seems like a tightass way to make music.

I saw the Vapre Trails tour and it was good, but Rush was good both of the other two times I saw them in the 80s. I heard the new record a couple of times from a friend the weekend of the show and it was ok, but it didn't catch with me enough to want pick it up. I did however go back and pick up some of the older albums I used to have on tape, including two I never had before (Caress of Steel & All the World Is a Stage).

And progressive to me, means a band with advanced musicianship,creative lyrics, and sometimes experimenting.
I think Rush have covered all 3.

Progressive dose not mean following a mandated style(cliche)
Otherwise it would be counter progressive because it would be anything but the three things I described.

Didn't it say somewhere in 2112, let them go make their own music ?
Which means lyrical wise, they are even more relevant now than 28 years ago.
Besides, I like that heavy rock sound

This would mean they ARE using fresh material.
Just because some of it has been recorded in this particular order or fashion is another story.

Besides, Rush started recording in a more loose way again, beginning with Counterparts.

Blame it on the double post gremlin /;

Lord amighty this might be the most sanctimonious thing I've EVER seen posted on ILX

You went for the Primus, so admit it.

It's true the mind is clearer when straight.
I used to be like one of those who would smoke a few j's and become an instant philosopher lol.

Many bands these days feel the same way, including the members of Rush.

If any one feels this is not "cool", should grow up.

There ain't nothin' "cool" about that.

I'm not the one who brought up smoking, I just commented that I don't and why.

I see nothing self serving about replying on it.
Do you think it is cool though when you are around the ones who talk about how they party?
Do you think it is self serving of someone who is proud of keeping it or going straight, including certain bands that have stated the same ?
Do you think it is self serving of a younger generation finnaly catching on... that drugs are bad for you and advertise to help other youths get off or stay away?
Do you think it is cool when you see some one in a band or another celebrity on t.v. getting stoned or bragging about it ?

Drugs dose not help though.
Just thank god that those with confused minds aren't making it worse with dope.

This isn't about what I think is "cool" or not. Personally speaking, I don't give a rolling rat fuck how people spend their damn downtime. What I was objecting to what the imperious tone of your post.

Just thank god that those with confused minds aren't making it worse with dope.

Do let's leave god out of this. Also, just what do you think "Passage to Bangkok" is about, eh ??

Just thank

Do let's leave god out of this. Also, just what do you think "Passage to Bangkok" is about, eh ??
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You still didn't awnser my questions, do you think it is bragging when stoners brag about how they got f'd up at this perty or that party or whatever ?
Or someone bragging about how many beers they drank during a college bing party ?
Or any one who is proud of being clean or became clean or spreads the message about the downside to drugs is as you put it..."imperious"
Besides, as I said before, I was just replying on about the fact that I don't and why.
The "BONG" comment was insulting while being short on stating a legit reply(cheap hit & run).
I have a right to reply and state my feelings.

"Thank God" was just a figure of speach.
Is that politicaly incorrect now ?
It's like saying...I'm so hungry I can eat a horse.
But that dose not mean I'm advocating horse for your diet lol.

And as far as the Passage to Bangkok lyrics go...the fact that the band is clean/has been clean of drugs shows even their attitude about drugs.
As far as I know it could be because Peart has been called a chain smoker by an ex member.

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Dude, Alex, you're arguing with a random Rush googler. Is it really worth it?
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Sorry for not being in the Rush club lol.
Didn't know you ranked fans
Now who has a "imperious" attitude ?
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He's giving Rush fans a bad..er...worse...name
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So your saying all Rush fans have a bad name already ?
That sounds like an insult guys, what do ya think ?
Just a shot in the dark, are you saying that I'm making Rush fans look even more uptight or like elitist ?
Then you must think being a boozer or a dopehead is cool ?
If so, then you are putting rockers back 30 years with the cliches and stereotypes.
The 60's and 70's are over, despite the retro fad.

is that a party where people get drunk and come dressed as bing crosby and matthew perry and eat cherries? if so, I AM THERE.

I am a Rush fan, doofus.

You still didn't awnser my questions, do you think it is bragging when stoners brag about how they got f'd up at this perty or that party or whatever ?

I didn't answer the question because it doesn't matter to me and has no place in this debate.>

So your saying all Rush fans have a bad name already ?
That sounds like an insult guys, what do ya think ?
I am a Rush fan, doofus.

You still didn't awnser my questions, do you think it is bragging when stoners brag about how they got f'd up at this perty or that party or whatever ?

I didn't answer the question because it doesn't matter to me and has no place in this debate.>
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If you don't care about what these others say ?,
Then why the double standard on my reply ?
And if your a Rush fan, wouldn't you already know how they feel on the same issue?
By making a statement shows that you are ashamed of the reputation Rush fans have.
At least that's what it sounds like to me

You're still not getting it. Sure,...maybe bong-sucking stoners are annoying, but so are insufferably sanctimonius, self-appointed piety police like yourself.

As far as Rush's status as teetotalers...who cares? That was never the issue. You don't see Rush proselytizing people for their arguable vices.

When I used to get high, I didn't brag, and now that I don't, I don't tell anyone not to.

Iam not policing anyone, again, I just made a reply to a half witted post.
And no, they aren't policing anyone either.
They have let it be known though.
Just the same way I did.
That is totally different than policing dude.

The initial post of yours which started this stupid debate:...

I don't smoke man.
Probably is the reason I can see the big picture more clearly.

...is a thinly-veiled assertion of superiority that comes across as self-serving and nauseatingly sanctimonious. End of story.

y

Just keep on thinking that a drug free mind isn't a clearer one if you want.
That's not self rightious, it's the truth.

I've been around people getting stoned and they ask me if I wan't some, and when I say no, they reply with...aw man, you aint cool no more.
Too many overlook that attitude, but if I say...I wish to keep my mind clear, I get called some sort of self rightious asshole.

You guys are waay to sensitive.
Sure this isn't a Tipper Gore fan site ? ;)

A good friend of mine made fun of me in high school for liking Rush. He tried to bait me a few years after I'd had my big Rush phase: "Remember when you liked RUSH?!" I guess he expected me to be embarassed but I just calmly said "Yep."

Peart I think was the one who said of these bands as having tattooed tantrums on stage.
I know he hated glam, because he once said he would sit on the side of the stage to watch a new act that was opening for them, and he said he would just shake his head at how they cared more about looks rather than music.
Could be wrong, but that sounds like glam to me.
He also mentioned how a certain band from California wouldn't know a concept if it jumped out of a Jack Daniels bottle and bit them on the ass.
That comment was made in 84, so you could probably figure out who he was talking about.
Anyways, some just don't understand them, so they bash.

“You’re known for your long songs, have you ever written a song so epic that by the end of the song, you were actually influenced by yourself at the beginning of the song?”
http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/07/17/rush-return-to-american-tv-with-colbert-appearance/

sweet!

whatever happened with that criminal case against lifeson from a few years ago?

read all about it

http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=940

too bad Lifeson's suit against the Naples pigs and the hotel was dismissed. They got jumped for the crime of trying to have a good time on New Years Eve.

Great gag with "Tom Sawyer" lasting through the commercial break and into the South Park rerun.