CanCon c/d???

Cdn Men = eunuchs (eg, Paul Martin, Jim Carrey, Wayne Gretzky, David Foster, Phil Collins)
Cdn Women = pre-menstrual/post-menopausal Amazons (Deb Grey, Shania Twain, Mary Walsh, Shannon Tweed)

Its certainly helped that, but it also dooms a level of musicians to that status of never quite making it. Commercial radio will only play 35% Canadian, not a penny more. All the advertising comes from down south so they jump to that as soon as they can.

As for the Tea Party, there no different then the Beastie Boys once were.

I'm curious to know what people here think about Can-Con as an idea as opposed to a reality. I ask, because it seems that people perceive there to be a difference between the two. Myself, I'm pretty certain I'm anti both the idea and reality, but is there a convincing argument for the idea at least?

I had a very similar experience as s woods's friend with sitting on a FACTOR jury, I don't think I'm supposed to discuss the particulars, but more than pointless, I thought it was very arbitrary. It was frustrating to me that a) the jurors were fairly randomly picked b) they were then not given very clear directions.
Someone very talented and deserving was not approved during my round despite my championing them, after I had conceded (approvals have to be unanimous) others who were less deserving to be allowed to move on to the next level. I'm glad to report that the artist has made their album anyway, and it's very very good.
So, I think that while FACTOR certainly CAN be a boon, it's way too random to be very effective. Manitoba, however, seems to have a very good program in their Film & Sound Initiative. (I'm a non-Pegger, so don't dismiss this as chauvinism) It seems like right now, Winnipeg is the most vital city in Canada culturally, from the Royal Art Lodge to the G7 Welcoming Committee.

I think there's something to be said for that--yeah, the mid '70s boom (which I am grateful for, all my snarky anti-Canadianisms aside), might simply not have occurred. Is there a parallel to be drawn between that and some people's ideas (not necessarily mine) about affirmative action, i.e., that it was "necessary" only up to a point?

Or should we just let ourselves be assimilated?
Culturally impossible not to be?

Marshall McLuhan thought Can-con was a classic case of "Rearview mirrorism," based on his idea that user is the content; thus everything Canadians listen to is actually...Canadian (in other words--if I'm reading him right, and who knows--mandated irrelevance). Bryan Adams railed against it. Any other prominent Canadians known to dismiss it?

Jason Plumb of the Waltons told me in '99, after CanCon went up to 35 per cent, that it doesn't help Cdn artists when the go abroad, that other musicians sometimes look down their noses at them as if the only reason they're working musicians is that the gov't mandated them to be.
But at the sametime, he certainly appreciated the opportunities CanCon had created for his band.

So, CanCon as idea...I think we'd be in a lot of bad trouble (as opposed to the other kind) if we let our music industry fall the way of our Film & TV industry. Cdn TV shows are almost universally vile (no doubt partly by design), and you almost have to beat people to watch Cdn films, even though many of them are very very good and not as art-housily Egoyanesque as we like to pretend. For eg Waydowntown is like the Breakfast Club meets 9 to 5, and it's one of my all time favourite Cdn films. Hell, of the last 5 years, it's one of maybe 10 films I'd watch more than once.

NB, like Manitoba has a Sound Initiative program, though I know little about either of them. Though I'd argue that if you had to pick a culturaly vital city in Canada that wasn't Toronto, I'd say Montreal. In part due to my allergy to Winnipeg, from the time I landed to the time I took off, I couldn't stop sneezing or blowing my nose.

a) Avril Lavigne

b) No one else does AOR half as much/well. AOR and Avril Lavigne are the only musics that matter.

c) It keeps British music off the airwaves.

d) Avril Lavigne

e) It's not like there's a real free market in pop songs anyway. It's just a reasonable recognition of the fact that the industry is centred in the US, that there is an imbalance in funding/promotion/advertising $, that radio plays a large role in influencing the market, and that we take a national interest in promoting Canadian culture, popular and otherwise. When I had to play more Canadian composers on college radio, it just forced me to discover creative music I wasn't as familiar with.

f) Chilliwack

g) Len

h) Avril Lavigne

i) I do think there has emerged as a result a certain Canadian musical identity on the radio. This is a good thing. Why should we not hear music relevant to our own national experience? FWIW, Blue Rodeo is the only band of their genre I actually enjoy on a regular basis. It would be much better, though, if we were also required to hear a certain amount of francophone and Native music as well.

j) Avril Lavigne

I was at The Argosy out in Sackville, NB. I just recognized your name and their was a CUP article run on Space Moose.

Wouldn't the mid-70s boom be pre-Cancon?

And yes, it does breed mediocrity at the top of the radio food change. It certainly doesn't force it though, the commercial radio stations themselves are fully to blame for that one. You wanna hear a great example of how a radio show can pull of 35% try CIUT's No Beat Radio on monday nights at 11 eastern. http://www.ciut.fm or 89.5FM in Southern Ontario (or within 30Kw range of TO)

Jezus H CHRIST, whats with my typos today.

"If America produces new musical trends and Britain polishes them, then Canada is where they go to become very angry and very empty. Sum 41 hate you, hate society, and probably hate classical music just for the hell of it. I know I did when I was sixteen. They play fast, loud, with guitars that chime and crunch and drums rolls that splatter across the sonic field. There’s no snarl or sneer in Bizzy D’s voice, but nor is it wounded. There’s only the simple declarative, opening occasionally into an operatic metal howl or whine. The British accent comes and goes. Melodies run up and down the major scales and sometimes pogo across arpeggiated fifths. Did I mention this all happens really fast?"

(NB: I like Sum 41)

The first part of the question: unfortunately, most of the bands you mentioned in that one post! (Great Big Sea, Spirit of the West, Ashley MacIsaac--sorry, these people are basically torture to these ears, though Cockburn has written a few good songs, Rush have some good moments, and Tragically Hip have stumbled on to greatness on a couple tries--"Fireworks," for instance.) Without regulations, I don't know what would have replaced it. Possibly other bad music that wasn't Canadian. My point was that a lot of mediocre stuff gets elevated out of quota-necessity, though I don't think we can argue this if our tastes are so much at odds (as they appear to be). I do think there's a shortage of great Canadian music that fits into a pop format. By which I mean, stuff that can compete with U.S./UK pop, not unproduced-for-radio indie stuff (I think Toronto's actually a pretty decent centre for indie rock).

I have to say, though, your Blue Rodeo/Sonic Youth connection seems completely crazy and completely cool at the same time. I don't believe it (I mean, I don't believe SY listen to Blue Rodeo), but I hear it anyway.

Music/Artis/Production/Lyrics. If two of these meet Canadian criteria, it's Canadian. Klaatu wrote the music and lyrics, so any version is Canadian. Shame, though, 'cause Klaatu's version is better.

(I'm doing this from memory, but I'm pretty sure it's right.)

What I mean is, it's mere existence as shared experience has made our identifying with it (or against it) a fact. To me this is better than no identity at all. We're having this conversation aren't we? Even if the art is crap - it succeeds in a certain sense. D'you see? (even if not agree)

No one's really argued this point though, which was more central to the argument than the whole identity thing:

It's not like there's a real free market in pop songs anyway. It's just a reasonable recognition of the fact that the industry is centred in the US, that there is an imbalance in funding/promotion/advertising $, that radio plays a large role in influencing the market, and that we take a national interest in promoting Canadian culture, popular and otherwise.

I'm hedging on the "quirky voices" thing. Neil Young has a quirky voice, but so does Bob Dylan. What makes Neil's Canadian and Bob's American? (This is what I've been thinking a lot over the last 24 hours. Can any American or Brit on this board explain with any more ease than we're trying to do here the US/UK identity in pop? Or is the real issue that they simply don't feel the necessity to do so?) (And for reasons I'm currently having trouble formulating, I'm still not that convinced by lyrical references, anymore than I think Dylan writing about Highway 61 makes him American or Kraftwerk "singing" about the autobahn makes them German...actually, maybe I am convinced by that last example!)

One point that possibly contradicts the "quirky voices" thing is that the English-speaking Canadian voice is accent-less (barring Newfoundland, of course)--not just to our ears, but to most people who visit Canada, too. This has helped a number of Canadians have great success down south as broadcasters, actually. Speaking-wise, we seem to be quirk-less. (The French thing of course is a whole other ball of wax.)

One argument I can make for pro-Can-con (is this what you mean by your "free market" example, Sundar?) is the potentially disastrous effect pulling its plug would have not on broadcasting necessarily (not immediately anyhow), but on the fate of Canadian labels, which are in pretty pathetic shape but which do fill that niche for Can-con (even if they generally do a hideous job at it).

!

What next, the Smiths singing about the Queen isn't British?

is the potentially disastrous effect pulling its plug would have not on broadcasting necessarily (not immediately anyhow), but on the fate of Canadian labels, which are in pretty pathetic shape but which do fill that niche for Can-con

That and generally that artists aren't required as much to 'break' in a US market before we hear about them here.

I'm not totally sure why I've been arguing this point so ardently. I'd never really felt very strongly about CanCon before.

I'm not especially committed to the "quirky voices" idea.

I think what's implies is that singing about where you're from isn't unique to Canadians and that identity comes from something more than simply name-checking yr surroundings.

I think that say Greg MacPherson's latest album Good Times Coming Back Again is VERY Winnipeg, even though I can't think of any specific Wpg ref's in it. Though there may be some.

Michael Moore not to thread!

regardless of whether avril sings "canadian-feeling" songs, she doubtless inspires other musicians, which makes us all the richer.

OK, I guess the point to me is just that it does make a difference to hear someone singing on the radio about places and situations you've experienced or that are part of the national experience, rather than to never hear about it or to always hear about someone else's. And also to hear sounds that have associations with traditions from the country. I think that's mostly all I was really talking about it, whether "identity" is the right word or not.

http://www.nationalpost.com/financialpost/story.html?id=2D0D8859-6344-40D0-90B4-DD6C17A6D86F
I agree of course.

It's worth asking, though, what purpose quotas serve today when most young people connect with music on the Internet? Also, what is a "Canadian" pop song anyway? And if we don't know what it is, why have we constructed an entire policy edifice of subsidies and regulations to protect and promote "Canadian" pop music?

Most young people? Gimme some stats, man. He's just finished saying that the FM radio market has seriously bounced back, and now he's saying kids don't listen to radio? So who's listening to it? And the Internet part of the equation is irrelevant if radio still exists and Canadian content is still necessary..the stuff will continue to be produced whether the Internet is there or not. Also, the speculation as to what constitutes a "Canadian pop song" is pure B.S.: we know what constitutes a Canadian pop song...Canadian writing and performing, and no amount of Bryan Adams bleating about it--after using mostly U.S. talent for the songs that were in question--will change this simple fact. Apparently that's not good enough for the Post.

Here are the facts: Despite the current 35% quota, Canadian radio "tuning" to domestic music is about 20%, and retail demand for "Canadian" records is about 12%. Those numbers give you the precise margin of Ottawa's policy failure.

What's more, most "Canadian" pop stars make records for the so-called Big Five labels -- Universal Music, Warner Music Group, Sony Entertainment, BMG Music and EMI Group -- none of which is Canadian-owned. These global conglomerates control about 80% of the Canadian music market with about $1-billion in revenue. Shania Twain, for example, makes records for Universal. Avril Lavigne has signed with BMG.

About 240 small independent labels share the remaining 20% of the Canadian market. It's this fragmented business that is the focus of Ottawa's subsidies, which amount to a form of cultural R&D spending.

Now don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that CanCon regulations have necessarily made the Canadian recording industry produce SUPERIOR music--but the fact is, it's producing music and it's stronger than it's been in quite a long time. Fraser is just spewing the same tired hands-off-my-money approach that makes the National Post what it's always been. (to me, that means unreadable)

As opposed to our friends at Clear Channel? Give me a break, as much as I despise Chorus and stomp on my floor to annoy them (I wish) they're still a step up. Sadly CFNY is theirs and we are all worse off for it.

Consolidation has been good for business. While AM radio is still struggling, FM radio has bounced back.

Duh! And this is because AM radio isn't consolidated or because some radios don't even come with the AM band anymore?

Also, what is a "Canadian" pop song anyway?

Better Question: Also, what is a Canadian "pop" song anyway?

Second, it neglects technological factors that have revolutionized the market dynamics of supply

Are you kidding? They got a whole stack of regulations for those apples.

The kids are all right -- and they'll find the songs they like despite government-imposed quotas.

Who are them kids and can we eat them?

(I'm at work and too busy to say much more right now...I hope some others chip in.)

Anyhow, that was a tangent...YES, yes, they need the stats to back it up if they want people like me to take this sort of thing seriously (especially since he provided stats in other places in the article, however weak and badly interpreted they were). I will not take it for granted that most young people get their music off the Internet just because the record labels say so or because it's some popular perception.

What musicians complain about CANCON these days? Bryan Adams, Rik Emmett and Randy Bachman?

Anyway I'm sure there's not much more to add on the topic. I am having a devil of a time figuring out laws for me as an American playing shows in Canada -- or if I should even worry about it -- but that's probably not appropriate for this thread.

I wonder if Canada Customs might have a FAQ or something? Or maybe Am. Fed of Musicians?

Canada.ca said you don't need a work permit if you're an artist and you're not performing in a bar or restaurant.

Bleh.

You won't get deported if you don't have the work permit, but you may not be allowed across the border. Or you may not be able to bring your cds across. I'll see if I can dig up the link.

I know I read an article about this in the past year but I can't seem to find it on eye.net or Now. Its defently different then the one for Canadians to work in the US.

It's amazing that you would include Godspeed You Black Emperor! in such a list. I found it mildly irritating because I enjoy their music so much. Great thread otherwise!