NYT 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

Yeah ok

Individual ballots from musicians/industry folks are interesting:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/04/27/magazine/critics-pick-greatest-american-songwriters.html

(For instance, Dua Lipa submitted only one name: Patti Smith.)

Surprised that Tom Waits didn't end up on the list, with the number of people who had him on their ballots.

Also kind of shocked that Jagger/Richards didn't end up on a single ballot.

It's American songwriters which tbf i also missed

when i glanced at that article on the nyt website and saw mariah carey front and knew immediately ILX would be polling this.

not to knock her, but when every song post-Butterfly generally has 2-3 writers attached to it, you kinda lose that songwriter label in my book.

i would've put joanna newsom on there

Dammit, searched for this and didn't see it. Mods please feel free to delete my post.

No Randy Newman, jeesh.

Billy Bragg agrees with that (Joanna Newsom).

Jeff Tweedy is one of three who voted for Jeff Tweedy.

David Byrne put Olivia Rodrigo, though she has few solo credits.

Billy Joel got votes but didn't make it.

Looked at the individual ballots, which I found interesting. Stephin Merritt isn't mentioned by anyone, yet he's (rightfully) on the list. Am I missing something? I guess that's just a sampling of the ballots?

also, if they're going to lump josh osborne, brandy clark and shane mcanally as one, it's completely unforgiveable to not include the wu-tang clan in the list.

It's American songwriters which tbf i also missed

ohhh that makes so much more sense now. I woke up and immediately read the article pre-coffee.

I guess that's just a sampling of the ballots?

yeah there were 250 ballots, which were then aggregated and whittled down by NYT critics. sounds like the critics automatically included the very top vote-getters and then collectively decided on the rest.

More about the.methodology:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/04/27/magazine/greatest-living-songwriters-methodology.html

*extremely gigantic eyeroll*

respect to jeff tweedy for voting for himself

not too offensive of a list, but this made me go back to check if jimmy webb was still alive and turns out, he is.

Dammit, searched for this and didn't see it. Mods please feel free to delete my post.

― TO BE A JAZZ SINGER YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCAT (Jazzbo), Tuesday, 28 April 2026 14:59 (twenty-three minutes ago)

Locked it for you.

berry gordy's list also had tow major snubs imo: gamble & huff, mike stoller

*two

I know this is a popularity contest as much as anything but David Berman is the first person I would make sure was on there.

i have some tragic news

not to knock her, but when every song post-Butterfly generally has 2-3 writers attached to it, you kinda lose that songwriter label in my book.

― My homies buttthole surfers' record sounds like a f (Western® with Bacon Flavor),

So if you co-write songs you're less of a songwriter?

As I said on the other thread:

Would be more interested in Greatest Active American Songwriters. The Greatest People Who Did Their Great-Ass Shit 60 Years Ago just isn't that compelling of an article premise.

― peace, man, Tuesday, April 28, 2026 10:21 AM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

That being said, Joni Mitchell not being included on the main list or any of the nomination lists is appalling. She's American enough.

xp yeah Alfred i was going to ramble about "what is a songwriter?" but I'm not hopped up enough for that yet, your question is more concise and yeah please let's not reduce this to lovers in their garrets ffs

"Loners in their garrets" I thought i typed but that is a pleasing typo

I'm not gonna argue that anybody should be excluded from the list (I have never heard a Young Thug song) but yeah, Tom Waits feels like a major omission. Would also argue for Dwight Yoakam.

lol what a shitty fucking list. the NYT is such a piece of shit

"Loners in their garrets" I thought i typed but that is a pleasing typo

― einmal ist keinmal (Noodle Vague),

love the typo!

Jody Rosen said on Bsky:

"We felt it was maybe not the best moment, geopolitically speaking, for a bunch of Americans to lay claim to a Canadian just because she's awesome."

https://bsky.app/profile/jodyrosen.bsky.social/post/3mkkkvssfqs2h

the sad thing for me is that a lot of current and former ILX0rs have more interesting and valuable critical insights and _used_ to be able to, like, share those insights professionally, but now it's all down to the fucking New York Times and Jeff Tweedy saying "I think Jeff Tweedy is one of the Greatest American Songwriters" which I read as the equivalent of a cocked eyebrow, I mean list like these are always sus, but folks here could at least make canon-building clickbait like this _interesting_.

the fucking _new york times_. fuck. god, america sucks right now. who the fuck cares about who the greatest living american _anything_ is in 2026? david berman is a more authentic reflection of 2026 america than bob dylan is.

one thing to note is that both this list and the NYT's 100 greatest films of the 21st century list were based primarily on votes from industry insiders. NYT staff then used those votes to produce a final list, which obviously entailed making some editorial decisions in favor of some selections over others. but I have to imagine they would be different lists if they were based only on the critics' own picks.

I think what imago was trying to point out upthread is that David Berman is not a living songwriter. He died, lads, he died.

I liked Jay-Z's insights shared in that video.

So if you co-write songs you're less of a songwriter?

― boners for bombs (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 April 2026 15:37 (twenty-four minutes ago)

I'm going to say no, but I do think it's harder to know what parts someone is responsible for if they're always working with a songwriting team. Maybe they wrote most of their songs, maybe they changed a couple of words, it's just more difficult to tell.

(NB I think Mariah Carey's songs suck ass so I don't care if she writes with a team, my comment is meant more generally)

She writes the melodies and always writes the lyrics, which one can tell because she's (in)famous for the polysyllabic drop.

re: solo songwriters vs co-songwriters, I wonder if Donald Fagen and Walter Becker would have made the list as duo if Becker wasn't dead?

should be on the list: Rickie Lee Jones, August Darnell

Personally, I think it's funny that this list has managed to rile up dudes who are annoyed at the omission of rootsy folk-influenced songwriters like Jason Isbell. Sure, Isbell is a good songwriter from what I have heard, but it's a style of songwriting that some people treat as objectively superior to other styles and whose belief in the greatness of musicians who employ it is often largely based on that notion. These people might begrudgingly admit that Mariah Carey has some catchy tunes, but she cannot be a great musical artist in their eyes because she is not a great songwriter as they define it. Including her on this list undermines their premise.

having jermaine dupri vote on the best living songwriters in america and then leaving him off the list for young thug and lana del rey is some sick shit

xp yeah jay all of that is true but it's 2026 and we're far too tired to keep arguing this nonsense surely?

Anyway in re the vote it's ridiculous I refuse to pick one unless there's a particular choice that will get maximum rise out of the Campaign For Real Songwriting

Though there's about 10 of these I don't know well, I'd vote Lana Del Rey for consistency or Dylan for scope.
I'd have put George Clinton on the list or, if I was looking to cause arguments, the Friedbergers.

Or the Maels.

The results are kind of hilarious. Can see fans of X singer-songwriter melting down over Bad Bunny, etc.

probably will vote for stevie, but only because it feels weird to vote for the hollands without dozier

On Bluesky, Ann Powers mentioned Trent Reznor as an omission.

john fogerty

I mean, seriously. I don't even know what the standard/criteria is. Overall career/impact? Lyricists? Teams? Do they have to be active? What about other producer/writers like Timbaland or Pharrell? Lots of Americana or folk-adjacent acts, plus survivors like Paul Westerberg or whomever? Chrissie Hynde? Jimmy Webb? What about Madonna? Tom Waits? Etc.

Basically, lists are dumb.

A lot of votes for Tom Waits and Billy Joel on those ballots, but they didn’t make it for whatever reason. At least one for Westerburg too. A lot of the criteria seems to be ‘people I’d like to work with.’

Was a little surprised he wasn't in there, as Broadway representation.

Ten years ago Alicia Keys might have made it.

ten years ago Sondheim was still alive though

ten years ago lin-manuel miranda would've been a fucking lock for this list

You can thank Donald Trump for this, sadly. Miranda the most nakedly Obama-coded Broadway composer ever, and nobody's gonna own up to ever having liked that entartete kunst shit in the Trump Reich.

But wait until the kids raised on Moana and Hamilton are old enough to vote.

Moana pwns, people need to stop fronting

Thinking that yeah, Randy Newman is a huge omission, by any standard. He is sort of an epitome of a Great American Songwriter, *and* he remains active.

In all honesty, it feels appropriate that he would be overlooked considering how often people misinterpret anything told through an unreliable narrator. tbf a lot of people did back then, but it's become even worse now.

the presence of indicators of the songbook’s quality that are divisible from the artist’s own performance of them (and associated performative idiosyncrasies), so, songs becoming “standards” or amenable to cover versions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97apN9L4C58

i don't think fiona apple or lana del rey are writing songs that are really unamenable to cover versions at all. where that sort of standard (which i think is a reasonable starting point for trying to talk about 'songwriting' as nebulous as it is) runs into trouble is rap for obvious reasons, but there's still plenty of melodic rap (such as "lifestyle") that lends itself well enough to even fairly stripped down covers, just it doesn't make sense to think about that as the only rap that's worthwhile in terms of 'songwriting'

I wasn’t saying that they’re unamenable but rather that they haven’t been presented to or received by the world as being explicitly amenable - which might change! A Fiona Apple musical is pretty viable IMO! Especially all the Sondheimy lyrics like “ I don't know what I'm doing, don't know, should I change my mind? I can't decide, there's too many variations to consider. No thing I do don't do no thing but bring me more to do. It's true, I do imbue my blue unto myself, I make it bitter.”

i think you could do a musical around the songs of either, but it probably wouldn't be a good idea. i don't think jukebox musicals are generally good ideas to begin with though

there are plenty of successful covers of both on youtube though

Anais Mitchell would have been a plausible inclusion for this list based on ‘The Brightness’ and ‘Hadestown’ alone.

xpost I agree re the jukebox musical but it’s a handy heuristic device for this thread I think

In all honesty, it feels appropriate that Randy Newman would be overlooked considering how often people misinterpret anything told through an unreliable narrator.

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure he was disqualified from this list due to his work as a slave trader.

I'd vote Lana Del Rey for consistency or Dylan for scope

Actually I ended up voting for her because I think she'll write more good songs in the future than he will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr2nuKFM33s

i wouldn't call del rey consistent

When I see Rick Beato doing takedowns of music listicles I feel like libs feel when its Tucker Carlson speaking out against Israel instead of their elected officials

idk this video is just beato going 'why isn't ryan tedder on the list. why isn't aerosmith on the list'

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/28/arts/music/amplifier-newsletter-greatest-american-songwriters.html

11 Great American Songwriters Who Didn’t Make Our List

By Lindsay Zoladz

A lot y'all have mentioned and one (I think) you haven't

Ach, paywalled.

Was flicking that barrier and going "Billy Ocean???"

Gift link

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure he was disqualified from this list due to his work as a slave trader.

― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, April 29, 2026 7:16 PM (yesterday)

how many people compiling the list were short people

Moana pwns, people need to stop fronting

― DJP, Wednesday, April 29, 2026 3:16 PM (yesterday)

yeah the younger people i know consider moana to be a fucking stone cold classic, i do think miranda's critical reputation is probably at about its nadir. i mean kids raised on moana _are_ old enough to vote (sorry ilx0rs, we're old), they're just not old enough to vote in NYT polls about the "greatest living american songwriters".

as for "hamilton":

You can thank Donald Trump for this, sadly. Miranda the most nakedly Obama-coded Broadway composer ever, and nobody's gonna own up to ever having liked that entartete kunst shit in the Trump Reich.

― wipes chooser (unperson), Wednesday, April 29, 2026 2:06 PM (yesterday)

"hamilton" kind of makes me think of something i read once about james branch cabell... someone said that he fell out of favor because he couldn't imagine a world in which hitler could exist. that's kind of how i think about "hamilton". the thing about that play is that while it's _not_ hagiography, ultimately i think to some extent it is a _celebration_ of an america that, uh, is very much not trump's america. for me, i think... it's kind of emblematic of the ultimate failure of obama's neoliberalism. which i don't think is fair to miranda or to "hamilton". it's more reflective of how i think about the rich white boomers i knew who were VERY VERY ENTHUSIASTIC about "hamilton" in a way that honestly was kind of cringe to me even at the time. "hamilton" _isn't_ green book, but it did occupy a similar cultural space in 2018.

so yeah, thinking about it miranda honestly _deserves_ to be on this list, and it is a political list, and so it doesn't really bother me that he's not on there for basically political reasons, any more than it bothers me that mike stoller isn't on the list. of fucking course mike stoller is one of the greatest living american songwriters.

Among certain demographics, LMM is as big as ever. Hamilton is still insanely big among young kids. They even watched it in my son's elementary school class.

Miranda should definitely be on the list. What world do y'all live in where the luster has faded from "Hamilton"? People still love that show and its music. And "We Don't Talk About Bruno" was just five years ago, and it was one of the most popular songs of all time.

Wow, jeez, no Stoller, yeah, that is an oversight, lol.

Gotta admit, I don't think I have ever heard Young Thug.

I don't think I have ever heard Young Thug

ever heard of fani willis? ;)

I tried to balance the obvious and the surprising, the recognized titans of American song (like Randy Newman, Billy Joel and Tom Waits) with some younger or below-the-mainstream talents who I think ought to be mentioned in the same breath (Alynda Segarra, Frank Ocean and Neko Case). I tried to limit myself to 10 but couldn’t, so this playlist goes up to 11.

That's Zoladz in the NY Times ampifier column (gift link above now I see) on the 11 she would have added : Steely Dan (Donald fagen); Replacements (Paul Westerberg); Gamble & Huff (she posts Harold Melvin & the Bluenotes doing If You Don't Know me by now & mentions more Gamble & Huff soul songs from 70s);Neko Case; Frank Ocean; Wilco(Jeff Tweedy); Billy Joel; Tom Waits; Hurray for the Riff Raff ( Alynda Segarra); Mountain Goats (John Darielle); Randy Newman

xpost Ha, actually forgot about her! Her last mixtape was OK.

decent list but i'd disqualify steely dan bc becker's dead and ... no on billy joel, just imo, i remember that ilm listening thread fondly but not for the music :)

I dunno, Brian and Eddie Holland are in there without Dozier ... If Fagen is the only one alive, then sure, why not Steely Dan.

The one thing Rick Beato brings up which is sort of valid is how muddy it gets when you essentially nominate a group. For example, Fleetwood Mac is a hybrid American/British band, but its two surviving songwriters are definitely two of the best living American songwriters. Or how you might break down REM, a band that has written so many great songs but has no clear singular songwriter voice, as such.

Or how you might break down REM, a band that has written so many great songs but has no clear singular songwriter voice, as such.

And who credited all four members with every song, no matter who did what, for band solidarity reasons.

for band solidarity reasons

and for economic reasons. i'd give them an extra vote in this poll if i could just for that.

Miranda should definitely be on the list. What world do y'all live in where the luster has faded from "Hamilton"?

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, April 30, 2026 8:25 AM (two hours ago)

hell

for band solidarity reasons

and for economic reasons. i'd give them an extra vote in this poll if i could just for that.

― fact checking cuz, Thursday, April 30, 2026 10:21 AM (thirty-six minutes ago)

i like dave stewart's story on why all of egg's songs were credited to the entire band. he said dirk campbell wrote the songs, he (dave stewart) played the solos, and clive brooks packed and unpacked the gear.

at least Depeche Mode was honest: Martin Gore wrote them, Dave Gahan sang them, Alan Wilder played them, Andy Fletcher manned the fax machine.

i love that

(xp)

Gahan has written some bangers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Dave_Gahan

Mostly cowritten, DJP, which means he can't count.

Mariah gets credit for cowriting but Dave doesn’t?

the elusive co-chanteuse

https://variety.com/2026/music/columns/new-york-times-greatest-songwriters-list-missing-randy-newman-1236733511/

Chris Willman discussing mainly the musician ballots (Dua Lipa picked just Patti Smith; Natalie Merchant picked 38 people)

A few others not yet mentioned (and not yet dead):

Bob Gaudio
Neil Diamond
Paul Williams
Jeff Barry (RIP Ellie Greenwich)
Barry Mann (RIP Cynthia Weil)

not seeing Bob Seger anywhere either. that early comp someone put together years ago got me thinking about him differently.

Reading about those who received votes but became ineligible by the time of the tallying — Sly, Brian Wilson, D’Angelo, Sedaka, etc. — made me think about how many others whom we have lost just in this decade would have been locks or close contenders:

Kristofferson
Bacharach
Robbie Robertson
Loretta Lynn
Tom T. Hall
Bill Withers
John Prine

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

they need to make a list of the 30 greatest dead non-American songwriters

that would be a fun/interesting exercise

Leonard Cohen
Fela
....

Nick Drake
Jobim

Ian Curtis
Serge Gainsbourg
Amy Winehouse