When do you start to feel confident about your take on an album?

for me, usually the outlines of 'my take' form after 3-4 listens. 'knowing it fairly well' happens 6-10 somewhere. there's a lot of variability here though - in how closely i'm able to listen (which depends somewhat on genre - jazz will always take me longer) and if lyrics are a part of the deal - looking them up online can help accelerate the process.

music is tough to talk about. sometimes i think it's impossible. a fools' errand that i do compulsively because i like it so much.

I love music, but am also a devotee of Sturgeon’s Law, so I frequently develop my take within the first listen through, because there’s SO MUCH STUFF and life is short as hell.

ha this reminds me of

Can You Force Yourself To Like A Record Through Blunt-Force Repetition?

I am comfortable with "one listen" for the reasons tombot gave plus more

Similar. To grow to love something within 10 listens, I'd have to give it 10 listens first which is tough in a musically abundant, post-monoculture world.

If I need a second listen, it's because I'm confident it's good or bad and need confirmation.

one listen is enough for me to know if something isn't for me, at least in that moment.

more knowledge comes through more listens with just about anything. i would counter tombot's 'there's so much stuff' with i'd much rather have quality and depth of connection over quantity and surface-level knowledge. i'm really into the situation where you fall in love with something, listen to it over and over, it keeps giving, you take a break and come back to it, it's still giving in new and unexpected ways, etc. it's like a loving relationship i guess lol. the albums that do this for me are pretty rare. maybe one or two new albums a year and then a few old albums that really stick. i guess i'd summarize this as i want a relationship, not a record of consumption.

Voted "six to ten somewhere," but I think there also an element of the passage of time that comes in. I think about when I was a kid and would get maybe two CDs for Christmas and just listen to them over and over and over again until the immediate impact of the singles had softened a bit and the deep cuts had emerged from the deeps and the overall shape of the album was clear in my head, and then by the time I stepped back and thought critically about the album as it compared to other albums, some time had passed and I had some perspective on it. I can't really recreate that every time I hear a new album, but the closer I can get to it, the more confident I feel that my take on it is really my take.

nb i'm not trying to throw shade on anyone who does it differently. i respect it. different strokes etc. all you people who listen to a million things are what makes ilm go round.

(xps) sleeve, I posted on that thread:

xp I'm actually just about to listen to this album for the 13th time. Black Box Recorder's 'The Facts of Life', which I bought when it came out, listened to twice, hated, and then never listened to again.

― And when you f--- up, you go backwards (snoball), Friday, 31 January 2014 13:00 (twelve years ago)

Through blunt-force repetition I did come to an understanding with this album, concluding that my original two listens evaluation had been harsh. But honestly I haven't really listened to it in the 12 years and change since.

I'm pretty confident that I can speed-date an album and decide if it's something I want to spend time with. But it's always a nice surprise when I initially find something merely good, especially when it doesn't seem like my sort of thing exactly, then keep getting drawn back to it (like with the Sarah Davachi album recently).

Two listens. After six to ten listens I’ll like anything, likeable qualities always reveal themselves with repetition

As with so many things, the answer is "it depends".

If I listen to something and think it's shit (aka it's not for me) then usually I only need one listen to ascertain that. I can be confident that I gave it a try and found it lacking. Does that mean it's impossible to change my mind later? No, of course not. For example, if a friend plays it, provides a different context, their speakers are better, they point out some things they're particularly enthusiastic about - maybe I'll pick up on something I missed, but I don't think my initial impression was wrong.

Occasionally I'll hear something and know immediately that I love it, it's amazing, it'll be in my all-time albums forever. If that love fades later, does that mean I was wrong to be confident about my initial opinion of the record? Mostly not, I think, but sometimes yeah, novelty and excitement might have blinded me to the poorer elements of it. Thing is, I'm much more likely to re-listen to something I think is great, so it does get those chances to change, where a rubbish record usually doesn't.

The middle ground, hmm, it definitely takes at least two full listens to solidify my impressions. But I don't think that there are many times when I'd say that I need more than that to be confident about my opinion. But as I highlighted above, being confident about my opinion to me does not mean never changing my opinion. Even if I've been deeply passionate about expressing that opinion!

2 or 3 depending on how attentively I'm listening

one listen is enough for me to know if something isn't for me, at least in that moment.

Ditto. Honestly, I usually know within a couple tracks if something is for me.

Otoh I mostly listen to metal and punk and I don't really have takes. It's more like "Is this something I can rock out to or no?"

context matters: if i know the artist's past work pretty well, usually first listen. if it's an overall new-to-me artist, i might go back a few times to get my bearings.

If I didn’t work at finding what’s good in something that was initially off putting, I wouldn’t have Joni Mitchell or Steely Dan. But initially I could tell there was something there that I wasn’t understanding, if only because my first (fifth) take was contrary to overwhelming critical consensus. And I could see that there was something there.

Sometimes I hear thirty seconds of a song and I nope right out.

If I really dislike a singer’s voice, that’s hard for me to get over. I can’t deal with Joan Baez.

lol me and yorke / corgan / dylan.

Voted "six to ten somewhere," but I think there also an element of the passage of time that comes in. I think about when I was a kid and would get maybe two CDs for Christmas and just listen to them over and over and over again until the immediate impact of the singles had softened a bit and the deep cuts had emerged from the deeps and the overall shape of the album was clear in my head, and then by the time I stepped back and thought critically about the album as it compared to other albums, some time had passed and I had some perspective on it. I can't really recreate that every time I hear a new album, but the closer I can get to it, the more confident I feel that my take on it is really my take.

this. one hundred million percent this. only difference for me is i'd get two LPs, not CDs, and they'd be for hanukkah not xmas, but otherwise, this resonates hard with me. i've always been a little jealous of people who can truly grasp not only what they're hearing but what they're feeling within one or two listens. but i'm also very comfortable with my own experience of needing -- and wanting -- to take my time.

the passage of time is critical for me, and was at deep odds with my onetime job as a daily newspaper critic. i struggled with that constantly. i was envious of those who didn't face that struggle, but i learned over time that their methods and instincts weren't better than mine, just different.

also i believe that whereas most people generally see a film or read a book exactly once, they listen to songs and albums over and over again. that's how recorded music is meant to be heard, and absorbed!

being a musician myself might be a contributing factor to my occasional impatience with certain works - there’s loads of stuff I listen to and right off the bat I feel like I can suss out what the artist is doing and I’m like yeah whatever if I wanted this I’d make it myself. Which I’ll totally agree is exactly as arrogant and bad of an attitude as it sounds, but as above, sturgeon’s law.

The Mp3 player era revealed to me that even albums I liked a lot I was listening to, like, seven or nine times by the end of the year. Perhaps partially because the floodgates were now open, and I'm sure in the physical media era it was more. But really, I was shocked how quickly I formed my impression.

I'm going to puzzle over this a bit more but my initial reaction to the question is... i don't think i listen to music in order to form a take or decide whether i like it (by which i don't mean that those things don't happen or that my listening doesn't engage with pleasure or immediate or musical cultural historical context - personal or received. )
I'm kind of drawn to map's idea of relationship, but i guess one of the reasons i read ilm more than post is that i don't really deliberately enter listening looking to form opinion, or think about strategies to ensure i arrive at one.

i don't think i listen to music in order to form a take or decide whether i like it

For sure, I don't imagine anyone does this unless they're being paid to review something. I think I was wondering more about how many listens it takes before we feel confident enough about our impressions to share them in a place like ILM, particularly when we phrase it confidently / definitively, like "this album is awesome" or "this is terrible" versus "I'm not too sure how I feel yet, maybe gotta listen more."

The first time I hear something, I know if I like it or not. If I decide I’m going to write about it, I keep listening over and over during the writing process. I will often wind up listening to an album three or four times while reviewing it. But my reviews are not “takes” on the record as a whole; I basically say, I like this, maybe you will like it too; here are two or three specific moments or qualities (the drum sound, the guitar solo on track four, the presence of a special guest) that made me like it - listen for those.

One listen is enough to know a basic "like/not like" take but to determine if something is all time or beyond a regular enjoyable record it takes 3-4 listens. Went with 2 as a compromise

As I get older and reevaluate things I do sometimes find that something I listened to dozens of times and considered a 5 star classic now seems just pretty good, whereas sometimes something that I damned with faint praise now seems borderline genius, so I’m not sure there ever is a point at which I can say my estimation won’t change.

I will know if I like or dislike something after the first listen. I have always been this way, even before the mp3 era overwhelmed us with music.

I have grown to dislike things I used to like and, more rarely, like things I used to dislike, but the general rule/pattern is that my first impressions deepen into more considered versions of the initial take.

It's rare that I grow to actively dislike things I used to like - I more often just drift away with a vague sense that I never need to hear that particular record again.

My (re)consideration usually evolves more over time than the # of listens. Most of my changing attitudes and sudden "this is great" revelations have come when I give something 1 or 2 listens, put it aside for some weeks, then come back for a 2nd or 3rd listen. The number of listens is small, but the extended marination time is more important.

It's rare that I grow to actively dislike things I used to like - I more often just drift away with a vague sense that I never need to hear that particular record again.

tbh this was a fancy way of saying “lol Kanye”

I have grown to dislike things I used to like

One of the things I like most about streaming is that I don’t have to look at my music collection/library and I have no sunk-cost attachment to anything….Looking back at my music collection is always faintly depressing; usually remembering the generally depressed state I was in at the time and too much hope placed in purchased music which was supposed to improve things.

So much indie rock I loved 20 years ago and which I had some emotional connection with (lol Wrens) just doesn't hit me anymore. It is very weird to have the memory of that connection but be unable to access that feeling.

You can call me a whore, but it felt like love at the time. Part of it for me is that I want to be in love. I profess my love early and with enthusiasm, turning a blind eye to any flaws, because I want to think it's the real thing and that it will last forever. If later the passion cools, and the relationship moves into more of a friend zone, so be it. No feelings were hurt and there's always the chance for rekindling later.

yeah, I find it difficult to listen to bands I felt I had a deep connection with back when I was young--Sonic Youth, Tom Waits, Pixies--but somehow bands from the same era that I didn't get into at the time sound great to me now.

i'm kinda tapped out with sonic youth tbh. but only recently found out for myself that alice in chains wrote some great, heartbreaking songs.

Part of it for me is that I want to be in love.

always good to see another romantic kicking around here - bless.

but only recently found out for myself that alice in chains wrote some great, heartbreaking songs.

They sure did

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Happily most of my changing tastes have followed trends— I genuinely adore the bulk of celebrated new music and have done so for the last ten years. Most of it!

The stuff I was unhealthily obsessed with as a teen has moved into the “I’d prefer not” zone, but my affection for the people who made it (and fondness for my teenage self) mean I keep my recently developed preferences a secret

My father always told me I’d get more into Bruckner and Beethoven once I hit 40, and he was wrong about them, but it has been true for Schubert and Bob Dylan

Voted "After three or four listens" but with modern streaming I don't always make it.

Does everything get three or four listens?

I mean conceptually i guess given your streaming difficulties. Like, surely some things take one listen or no listens?

Your Favorite Albums You Have Listened to Zero Times

100 Albums You Must Hear After You Die

O was this about favourite albums?

its a tough question to answer because so much of it depends on active listening as opposed to background noise. the last two OPN albums are great examples of this. Again took about 7-8 listens to finally click, but really it was just one listen where I was actually paying attention to everything that was going on. Tranquilizer I loved right away because I was like, okay, you're gonna smoke a bowl and actually *listen* to this, I thought it was amazing, but it's definitely an album you don't really get if you're distracted. but then sometimes it's kind of the opposite, new Lemon Twigs for example, first listen I paid close attention and was like, yeah it's good but I don't know about this, it's too pastiche maybe...then having it on several times as background noise I began to really love it, since all the songs got their hooks into me and I started to realize, who cares if it's pastiche, the songs are amazing.

so I'll average everything out and say.....five

For me, listening one time to an album opens a contract with the artist that I am going to create a relationship with this music to the point that I have connected with it as best I can, even if in the end there is no connection (or even antipathy towards the music). I'm trying to see what I can learn from this music, even "negatively". So I understand that "my method" sacrifices width of listening for depth.

Even though I use streaming, I'm still in a 20th century mindset when it comes to music discovery, partly because the streaming platform I use gives you a certain number of whole-album streams per month; there are no mixed playlists there. I don't think I ever listen to anything before knowing something about it first. So I am still having virgin listens to music that I heard or read about online, in books or magazines over the last four decades but never got around to. During the first three or so listens I never skip songs or stop while listening to the whole album; as I say above, I have made a commitment.

After this stage, I start to have opinions about which songs I want to keep and which to discard. Most records I decide to listen to have at least one worthy track. I'll eventually remove songs from my listening playlist because I don't like them but also so I don't burn out on them (if I like them). The funny thing about this way of listening is that the tracks I end up listening to the most times aren't my favourites, but the most confusing/ambivalent-making. I might evaluate all the songs on an album this way, and then have one last listen to the entire track order before removing the discards, just so I get a last taste of the album gestalt. It might also be months between individual listens, so if I remember pleasant details of a song I last heard 12 weeks ago, that's a good sign.

So let's say six to ten listens of the whole thing, if the record is at all to my taste.

1st listen is probably the most important. need to have the feeling of, "oh yeah this is great." second and third listens make sure that it wasn't just the novelty of hearing something new. the songs (not sounds) need to have made an impression on me by then.

i am a pretty exploratory listener, so i don't usually listen to things over and over again

The six or seven listens thing does seem a tenant of the era where you paid for CDs/tapes and you had to make sure you got value out of the purchase. If I don’t like something on first listen now I’m probably not going to listen again. Nor does it really matter to me if I’m overrating something on first listen. Like, who cares?

I'm almost 100% on knowing if I am ambivalent about an album on the first listen. I almost never transition from a "meh" first reaction to a positive one. On the other hand, there are quite a few albums (and this could almost be a thread if one doesn't already exist) of albums that I had such a visceral dislike of on the first listen that I couldn't stop thinking about why, and kept listening, eventually coming to love it.

Most of the albums I really love, I've had either a really strong negative or positive reaction to on first listen. Most albums I like, I just like very much, and some of those had to grow on me. But there's always something that makes me want to put it on a second time, so I guess in a way I would just answer this poll as one listen is sufficient for me.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

A distant friend of mine died a year ago and he asked his widow to give me his CDs, so once a month I get a couple if boxes in the mail filled with gobs of stuff I’ve never heard of. Classical, all kinds of world music, folk, jazz, LOTS of jug band music. I recently asked her her much was left and she estimated 67 linear feet of shelving worth.

The only way to process this is giving everything a cursory listen, and some things go in the NOPE pile after 30 seconds. Then there’s a Maybe pile, and a Keeper pile. I box up all of the NOPES and mail them to a friend.

So, some of Jim’s cds go from Oregon to Georgia and then Texas. As I’m packing the rejects I wonder if there’s treasure that I missed, but life is too short to be panning for gold like that.

I was thinking about this at length despite not actually voting. I kinda want to say "I'm never confident". It's probably significant that I really dislike repetition in the first place and may not have even have heard some supposed 'favourite' records more than 4-5 times over decades. A degree of unfamiliarity is ideal and that probably comes with the possibility of significant re-evalution, in either direction, with each listen.

Beyond some basic initial confirmation that I haven't completely misjudged the nature of the music involved, judgements of quality can generally wait, perhaps especially since procurement of a physical copy mostly ceased to be a barrier to entry.

Missed the poll, lots of interesting points, my answer wasn't available: Confident about my take on an album? Never.

I don't get confident by counting listens. Archie, Marry Me got under my skin before I had a take on the record, and I still trust that foolish joy more than the later one people call better. Blue Rev is prettier to me. I said that here before I could rank anything. I don't know when a take is finished. I know when it stayed, and when I'm not borrowing someone else's ears.

Lots of great posts here, bravo everyone. I don't know that I can add too much, but it's a really interesting topic to me. I think I'm in line with those who say that in one or at most two listens, if I'm honest with myself, I know if "like" what I'm listening and will feel the pull to put it on again. And I'd reckon that it is probably around 4-5 listens - whether attentive or distracted! - where an album actually snaps into my long-term memory. Prechoruses, bridges, lyrics start to really take hold, I have a stronger "ooh yeah, THIS song!" response, etc.

I still don't think about it has having a "take" really, but I've never been a music writer. I relate to albums as things that are going to be recurring parts of my long-term life, versus movies or books which most likely are a one-time, two-time, MAYBE three-time experience. I could have a take on a pair of pants, I guess, but the real question is, will I wear it again ever, will I wear it from time to time, or is this gonna be one of my favorite pairs of pants? Music is a little more like that.

I've often waxed nostalgic about that teenage era of allowance money and part-time retail jobs meaning I accumulated new albums very slowly, combined with not a lot of evening responsibilities or social life (beyond the computer screen). So, a few albums, a LOT of listening time, and really getting to know the deep cuts on nearly everything I owned, including like, very minor songs on random grab-bag 50s rock and roll compilations, whatever. We probably need a shorthand for this whole phenomenon - it comes up a lot!

These days I have more disposable income, but less pure listening time, and I can get stuck with the sense that recent acquisitions should be in the queue/rotation until I've given them that proper set of introductory listens. It feels like, if they're dispatched to the mass of the whole collection, they'll never really have their chance, or I'll never have my chance, for that stronger connection to form. This probably isn't the healthiest attitude since it can load weird anxiety paralysis into just throwing on something to listen to.

But then sometimes it does pan out - speaking of Alvvays, I got a copy of Antisocialites in probably January or February (after having streamed it a couple of times over the years, and seeing many raves over it). It'd been sitting in the "current listening" shelf for ages, and I finally put it on a month or so ago, enjoyed it. Then again a few days later, and then again a few days after that, and that's when the full "click" moment happened. Ever since, I've had bits of it popping into my head all throughout the days. Great album! Now I know for certain it'll come back out of the collection and get enjoyed many more times.

This is also a good reminder that what I really need to do is finally fix or replace the receiver in the room where th computer is. I'd get to enjoy a lot more listening (on headphones) while doing work, and while doing hobbies! Priority for this winter.