Stop blaming ravers for drug use!

here is a picture to cheer you up, it is my friend the psychedelic porpoise:

http://www.theoriginalsoundtrack.com/ile/dolphinthumb.jpg

Yes we do follow PLUR which is PEACE LOVE UNITY AND RESPECT.
Okay, I really fucking hate you now.

Stupid rave-speak. And on that note, a raver going to a rave for anything BUT the drugs? That can't be possible.

i have been listening to various styles of electronic/rave music for about 4 years now. almost all of the ravers i have talked to really dont know too much about the music. maybe it is just the ravers i have talked to, but they always seem to be more interested in partying, taking drugs, and bullshit idealism than the actual music. raves are boring if your not on drugs, no one wants to see some grown man clutching a teady-bear. ill leave you with a fine addict records quote:

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR
PUNCH A RAVER

peace out.

That's so insufferably condescending it makes me head spin.

'Buzz' was a college student's narcotic Timbuktu, labeled by press twits as the biggest club night in America (they having never heard of 1015 Folsom, apparently). All the actual big pants glowstickers I know eschewed the joint and went to the big outdoor/warehouse events outside the Beltway. When Buzz shut down it didn't even make a dent in the rave scene. It just made the dealers move to another night for their downtown business.

Saying that 'Ravers' are there for drugs more than music is like saying rock n' roll concertgoers are there for the expensive booze, not the bands (Well, in my case, I'm there for the merch, but hey). If they didn't care about the music they'd just page Rasi like the smart addicts and have a dropoff made.

I disagree about electronic music moving back underground. I think if anything it's more mainstream now, which may be why it's not getting as much press, but a ton of kids still eat that trance shit up like it was Pocky.

I have gone to plenty of raves in my time, and to this day I miss those crazy warehouse parties from back in the day. Drugs were there, but I do not think they were the entire focus of the event. I am sure that they were the only reason some of the people were there, but there were more who were just there for the atmosphere.

I can only speak from my experiences in Detroit. I went to my first party in 94, and started going weekly to clubs and parties in late 95.
In the beginning the parties were not nearly as drug oriented as they are today. I will not deny that drug use was happening. I was taking drugs every so often, but they were not the reason I went. I was there for the music and the atmosphere. I probably sound old, but I feel sorry for the younger people who missed the heyday of raves in the Midwest/Detroit.

One thing that I did find was the more the media played up the drug aspect of raves the more druggy the events became. To outsiders (and in 95 if you didn’t know the right people you could not find out what was happening) the idea of raves just became a place where you ingest as many drugs as you can and wear silly clothes. People informed by media rather than by the music culture itself started dragging the whole thing down.

These days I don't think there are raves in Detroit; everything has gone to the clubs. After 1998 everything started going hill. Each year the drugs and the problems associated with them kept getting worse. Detroit raves eventually became drug dens. The fashion and the drugs were played up, and the music and the dancing were played down. When I first started everybody danced and they went nuts, and as time passed more people just started to stumble around drugged out of their minds.

It is sad because it was a beautiful utopian experience back then. I look back at those days with a great deal of fondness. The vibe of those old Detroit warehouses with the Detroit DJ's when they were at the peak of their powers was incredible. I would always think to myself that there was no place on earth I would rather be, and that the rest of the planet was missing out of something incredible that came from our little backwater town. It sounds provincial and close-minded, but we did have something special back then that nobody else had.

Case in Point: Control III, this past labor day at Detroit's City Club, a notorious industrial/goth club. Richie Hawtin was spinning from about 2:30 a.m. until whenever. The club was packed, and beastly hot. You had to push your way into the main room and found...a bunch of kids standing around with their arms crossed. Less than a quarter of the people on the floor could be bothered to actually dance. Maybe this is the norm these days, but I was actually a bit offended. Richie is a Detroit Techno legend, albeit from Canada, and was not getting anywhere near the respect and crowd response he deserved.

Maybe it's patronizing to say "things were better back in the day, these new kids don't appreciate the music/scene/whatever anymore" but it rings pretty true here in Detroit. These shows are more of an excuse for suburban kids to take drugs in the city than anything else; and I am not necessarily against drugs. I just wish the artists got some appreciation.

btw, nice to see you on the board, Mike.

I also don't think that anyone here would blame only ravers for all drug use. Drugs have been around for a very long time. Most styles of music have drug associations. Bebop was heroin, Psych Rock weed and acid, Punk had amphetamines... There are a fair amount of people on this board who either have or do use drugs, so i doubt many of us would criticize ravers specifically, or anyone else in general. If anything, this board is sympathetic to problems that individuals may have with drug abuse.

All of that being said, some of the negative attitudes towards ravers are not without justification. The few raves i have been to, as opposed to club nights, have been characterized by a lot of people sitting on their asses too fucked-up to move. Even those that seemed to be drug-free were just too bored, tired, or cynical to do anything at all. If rave wants to survive, it needs to live up to the rhetoric it constantly sputs. Lindsey, I am sure you mean what you say. If you were one of the lazy ravers I mentioned before, then you would probably not make the effort to start this thread.

Another criticism often heard regards the fashion aspect. According to many I have spoken to, the original raves in NYC and elswhere involved a lot of people in jeans and t-shirts. I don't care that much about what clothing people wear, but it is hard for many to ignore the conformist aspect of so many people trying to look exactly the same. If Rave is about the music, then why is so much effort spent on everything else? As opposed to ravers, most of the club kids and club djs I know are much more casual about their clothing. They spend all of their money on records!

Also, comments above about a lack of music knowledge within the community of ravers have held true in my experience as well.

I have been listening to electronic music for 8 years now, and have owned turntables for almost 2 and a half years. In that time, the rave scene has almost become a parody of itself. There are a lot of good people still involved, but I still can't help feeling sad about what has happened. I am a very idealistic person, but, ultimately, PLUR means shit unless it is acted upon instead of just spoken :-)

Alex do you have a piece of string hanging out of your back?

"they always seem to be more interested in partying, taking drugs, and bullshit idealism than the actual music."

This is a largely false dichotomy. Music and partying, music and taking drugs and music and bullshit idealism all work perfectly together.

Which is to say: one can love music and love taking drugs designed to work well with music and these things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I'm often surprised that more music obsessives of all stylistic persuasions don't regularly use ecstasy.

this doesnt have much to do with drugs or anything, just a matter-of-fact statement

although rave america style is weaker than it was, the term still makes more sense there than here (although americas rave subculture seems a LOT more middle class and whitebread (even preppy?) than in the uk)

2. I don't feel any obligation to dance. Dancing is not paying tribute to the people who made the records (they're on records, they don't care what I do), and, even if an act is playing live, they can't see me! I dance when the mood strikes me. And I certainly don't feel obliged to dance just because lots of other people are, I'll stand with my arms folded if I damn please.

3. Tom Millar, if you know of a place I could spin - for anybody - near DC, could you e-mail me with contacts? My demo's free to anyone who could help. I think I'm pretty good in a VERY abstract way (decks, sampling and...lots of EFX). Please, I'm operating in a vacuum here.

I hate the way it manifests itself mostly, which from my experience tends to be, "Man, I love you and think you're fantastic while I'm hopped up on E and I see you dance, but if I saw you on the street I'd nervously cross the street and check my wallet." It's yet another manifestation of the ways that teens/young adults segment themselves into homogenous hive-minds.

Good lord, I do! Never noticed it before.

HTF!

("honor the fire")

this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. well, not the stupidest, but one of them.

Top post.

The funny this about U.S. rave now (yes, it still exists) is that it seems to be hitting mostly the more working-class small-town south and the "heartland," from what I can tell: big cities are a bit over it, but it seems like high school kids in Kentucky or wherever are still going strong. The problem is that the great hand-me-down of the idea has resulted in something that's basically a caricature of rave -- glow-sticks, Seuss hats, etc. -- and that the idea of it as some sort of collective special thing has completely evaporated, necessitating all of this sloganeering ("PLUR") to try and reanimate it.

the american scene is definitely different. I don't think that the characterization of the scene as being more middle-class is unfair, even if it might be overgeneral depending on the specific scene. the scene here is a lot more cynical, from what i understand, and reynolds rails against what he sees as over indulgence in regards to drugs here. whereas it is possible to romanticize the idea of a british proletariat learning to hug each other and making avant-garde records (and Reynolds admits to this romanticization... read the section of the interview on his original site where he quotes Pulp: "they burn so bright whilst you can only wonder why."), the american scene had no paradigm to marvel at. also, E + "reserved" brits /= E + Americans trained in consumerist hedonism (yes overgeneral again).

Garth's point about seperation between original detroit and chicago artists and rave scene is critical. very critical. additionally, paradigm in america is rock and rap, made by (seemingly preferably) poor hetero blacks. techno is middle class europhile black music originally, and chicago is black and gay. that is why even club music barely makes a dent, i think.

also, rave in europe connected to fall of communism happiness. rave does not have the same connection, or any connection here.

what is so sad about the american scene is the apoliticism. We need the political part here more than britain did. URB mentioned in the article a party that was held in the midwest. it was legal, permits were obtained, and then the police decided to bust in anyway.. they fined everyone in the venue fr being in the prescence of drugs. the cops held a gun to the djs head.

(I am way tired... sorry if I am incoherent or meaningless!)

How far behind? Keep up, guys.....

!!!

are you including britain in this conception of europe aaron, or treating europe as separate entity? if the former, this doesnt make sense. if the latter, well, youve just made me realise id like to know more about dance history in belgium, holland and germany

Do you honestly believe the people who went, and still go, clubbing week in week out 10 years ago went there for any political reason?

Of course not.

Stop over-analysing the whole scene - dance music and clubbing is one of the (thankfully) few genres that doesn't preach in any way... it's total hedonistic escapism and isn't moulded or affected by social concerns.

Why does there always seem to have to be a deep reason behind everything? It does seem to be a curious American trait that you can't enjoy things for enjoyments sake, you have to dissect things and look for imaginary inner meanings. Bullshit. Lighten up, have fun.

And move to Europe - where we have the proper clubs...err...'raves'.

(came back from a whistle stop toure of America a few months back... God, the club scene is DREADFUL. Miami and New York - shockingly far behind.

also, australia. im thinking australia fits the america model more. its certainly hardhouse oriented, and still seems to be based around warehouse parties out of the city?

"dance music and clubbing is one of the (thankfully) few genres that doesn't preach in any way... it's total hedonistic escapism and isn't moulded or affected by social concerns."
this is not true at all. many detroit techno artists were very concerned about social issues. you obviously don't have any of the many underground resistance records that contain diatribe etched into the vinyl. in chicago, there were plenty of records coming out that spoke about oppresion. the scene was gay, it was the 80s, can i make it any more obvious? also, darkcore, jungle and garage were moulded by social issues in london. drugs and the economy are social issues.

lastly, i hope you are joking when you say that americans are the only ones to overanalyze. you have obviously not been here long. there are threads on this board with hundreds of posts that concern t-shirts worn by rock stars. also, americans didn't invent deconstructionism or semiology ;-)

if ONLY that was the real lyric

you do realize that "raves" and "clubs" are not the same thing,yeah?

generally, when i think of something as dead in my own mind, i am describing that moment when a movement seems to have become a genre. Whenever a new music or idea comes out, it posesses a certain urgency, zeitgeist, etc. eventually, that feeling is lost. an exmaple of what i mean... to be into punk in 1977 probably felt much different than it does now. punk is now just a lifestyle option. that doesn't mean punk music is worthless, or that the excitement felt by a person just getting into the music in unimportant. i would also stress that dead=dead to me, and is not necessarily an objective statement about the music or scene as it exists outside of my perception. i am curious to see what others think.

Raves sounds so... kiddie.

Aaron - if you wish to connect dance music to any political statement, please look further back than the 80s.... the last truly political dance records were made in the 70s when disco was on the rise..... and there were some very early HINRG tracks from this time, and the early 80s, that dealt with issues like AIDs and opression - at the time, issues mainly affecting the gay communities who made things like disco popular.

I dispute your claims that the Detroit records were political - can you name any? If there are any, I'd be more than interested to know which ones.

I think 'darkcore' (eh?) is another Americanisation - doesn't exist here.

And jungle/d&b, ok, political - but not in the genre I'm addressing. And certainly not music that is played at 'raves' in the UK. Although some of the more commercial dance clubs now cater for this genre too. I hate it with a passion. Ugly music that simpky doesn't flow.

And really, only Americans could attempt to delve into the whys and wherefores of club culture. Really.

Ronan - err... keep up. Please?

it didnt really get called a name as such, but people referred to it just as dark, or darkness

boogie times tribe ~ the dark stranger is the archetypal tune, but many of the tail end rave tunes could be included. basically the records that typified the moodyness of many clubs at this time, and which helped precipitate the jungle/HH split

Sure the American scene is different from here, personally it seems crazy to me, but that does not mean it's shit, and to be honest I think it's increasingly clear.

Why does there always have to be a reason behind something

Er.....you may want to consider the answer to this one yourself, it's something to do with the fact that magic wands don't exist.

keep up

the effort is really killing me. The idea that there's something wrong with dissecting or analysing something you love is a nutso one, I'd prefer not to have to shut up about things I like.

also i think late 80s/early 90s dance music was just as political as at any other time. just been listening to the second Shut Up & Dance album which is full of bitter yet hopeful social comment, for example

92 - hardcore > 93 - darkcore, jungle techno > 94 jungle, intelligent drum n bass > 95/96 - techstep, whatever...

http://forums.di.fm/member.php?u=36583

Haven't read the thread, but the original post is probably the most pathetic thing I've ever read in my life.

http://www.geocities.com/franches30/plur2.JPG

that 1st post by alex in nyc , i knew it was him before i saw his name.

Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.
Ravers are in the most part very intellectual people for the most part.

A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".
A mate of mine went raving in the U.S. once. He said it was a fucking joke. He called American ravers "space monkeys".

Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...
Why can'y you guys accept us for us and not for the drugs...

http://diveintomark.org/public/2006/07/you-make-bunny-cry.jpg

americans aren't allowed to say 'rave', 'raving' or 'raver'. Same as we can't say 'howdy' or '2lb burger'

http://www.adolescent-substance-abuse.com/test-club-drugs.html

2. Another term for "raves" is:
Trances

waht

this was on most read threads earlier today!

Yeah, I put "Big Party" and it is!

Unless you know of any hypnotist that puts people into a rave.