What in gods name is ...

Rudely turning this into a question about strange genre names, I vote for 'Handbag', 'Norweigan Black Metal', and 'Garage Jungle.'

Some of these are pretty intuitive until you start getting down to the specifics of which band is which genre (which isnt the point of genres anyway and you can't even do that taxonomy stuff with the 'big' genres).

So "lo fi" = lo fidelity, music made with the minimum additional production.

"Chamber Pop" = pop songs made using instruments associated with chamber music.

and so on. Is Two Step the only actually musicological (however tenuously) genre name?

Be prepared for a fight. Esp. in, er, Techno and its scattered children, the name insiders use and the name outsiders use can sometimes totally differ, to the point of racial epiphet.

"Nosebleed Techno" is one I like. Defn to follow.

"any others i have missed": come on, folks, let's give him what he asked for...

I want to add a few here too, all dance stuff (sometimes I think there's about 4 mates in their bedrooms suddenly deciding that they're now into, I dunno, Shortbread techno or whatever)

anyway, Gabba techno - wasn't this some Dutch advancement on nosebleed techno?

and hardbag? what the hell was that?

Is genr(e)ification the new rock and roll?

Cabbage

It's Gabber actually ;) My favorite is Bleep 'n Bass for early Warp releases, although I can't remember anyone actually calling it at the time, it just was weird house music.

How about "Hardbag"??? That's a funny one isn't it? Presumably harder-handbag-disco-type-thing (harder handbag sounds perverse enough all on its own) but "hardbag"....I mean...y'know...that just sounds weird

"gabber" is my favourite weirdo subgenre name, because it reminds me of the ramones' "gabba gabba hey" thang.

"Electronica" itself is an interesting one, because back in the 1980's it used to describe a weird little european scene of space music & tangerine dream knock-off acts combined with some of the detritus from the original industrial music scene (EG Chris and Cosey, who caused a big stink @ one "UK Electronica" festival by playing a film consisting of porno intercut with scenes from Bunuel's "Un Chien Andalou" - at one point during their set I looked back and saw a lot of the audience holding their hand over their eye har har...) It was a pretty good little scene that got just about TOTALLY wiped out by ambient techno, more's the pity...

Anyway, straight edge, in case I missed somebody answering that one, refers to USA punk with an emphasis on abstinence, cf Minor Threat, sample lyric:

Don't drink/don't smoke/don't fxck/'least I can fxcking THINK!!!

Apparently there was a US sX band who even forswore (heh) SWEARING!!!

x0x0

Hardbag was GRATE - there was a compilation called "Enter The Hardbag" with a cartoon handbag pointing guns at you, which I used to play all the time 5 years ago and had totally forgotten the existence of. It was quite like handbag to be honest except had perhaps vaguely dirtier lyrics.

I'm gonna have to look my friend Nic's definitive email explanation of all of this, from abt a year ago. But (as I recall) "hardbag" was a sarky name invented by unrepentent "handbaggers" to entitle the uselessness of what they were NOT. In other words, both factions embraced the outlander-insult name, and turned it back on itself: as in We're Here, We're Handbag, Get Used to It.

(Handbag is in "dancing round your handbag", of course, so a species that Gurls Must Like — which in some eyes was a shortcoming...)

Gabba or gabber? Ardkore or Hardcore? How d'ya spell Aciiiiied?

In the ever-marvy world of Grindcore/Death Metal, there's a small yet dignified sub-genre called SLUDGE DEATH.

Isolationism as a genre name: classic or dud? It always seemed a bit Goth to me as a way of describing some often interesting music.

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Gabba or gabber? Ardkore or Hardcore? How d'ya spell Aciiiiied?

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Okay, Gabba if it's from Scotland or Brooklyn, Gabber if from Rotterdam.

Ardkore if it's from Londah, Hardcore if the Powerpuff Girls use it.

Aciiiiied, the correct number of i's is optional since the Chicago- Berlin Convention of '91.

Isolationism always struck me as a perfect term to describe Joy Division.

'Ardkore I always assumed was a Reynoldsism, and I further assumed was coined either to show how street the music was (bad reason) or to deflect predictable snufflings of past-it-punkers ie. what-about- black-flag? (good reason).

Hardcore is I think preferable.

Well we must mention that other Reynoldsism then: artcore. Always thought that was a very nice term for LTJ Bukem & co.

I wonder, especially re dance/club music, how far will one genre too many be? I recall reading a roundup of something called "click house" in an NME last year. My feeling at the time was - take this away - I don't even want to *hear* it....

Further to the "Electronica" thing I mentioned earlier, I recently s*bbed to a couple of mail lists to do with the remnants of that scene. I was puzzled by posts referring to "BS" music - judging by the generally derogatory nature of such posts, I figured it must mean bullshit, but no, it means "Berlin School" IE a VERY close copy of the style of Tangerine Dream circa "Phaedra" & "Rubycon", often using the same instruments - moog modular synths & mellotrons (IE none of this fancy digital stuff) Some of it is actually very good, once one gets past the inevitable outrage @ its derivative ethos. What made me laugh was the thought of some "Berlin School" musician being quizzed abt what he did:

"so, what does your music sound like"

"Oh, our music is BS"

can anyone come up with a more obscure subgenre than that?

x0x0

i ask for definitons and get more wanking obscurity. this is why i love this board

D00d - ! 4Nz\/\/3r3d yr Q abt "Straight Edge"!!!!!

Thee 0bzcur3 \/\/ank!ng waz a bonuz!!!

x0x0

Norman - that SxE band who didn't swear was Crucial Youth. They also would bring a giant toothbrush on stage to illustrate their song "Positive Oral Hygiene". "Just one beer is all it takes, for your straightedge pride to break!"

I am by no means an expert, but I'm pretty sure a guy like Panacea falls under "dark-step." Which is mean, distorted jungle. I know there's also "tech-step" which I'm unsure about but it sounds like an idm (intelligent dance music like Aphex Twin) - doing the jungle sort of thing. Oh yeah, there is also "crap-step" which is Goldie.

Straight edgers just crack me up. I mean, a giant toothbrush.

Hang on though, aren't toothbrushes made by medical companies. Who also make DRUGS! That's not very straight edge, is it? Using a symbol of EVIL MIND DESTROYING DRUGS as part of your show?

Nononono, [prof.Jungle enters, starts writing on the blackboard].

Techstep: ace brand of jungle with minimalistic beat, oblique synth sounds, themtic obsession with darkness, terror, emptiness, technology. Starting point often attributed to Ed Rush & Nico's remix of 'Mutant Jazz'. As found on Techstep (e-motif) compilation, Ed Rush & Nico's essential comp. Torque, Doc Scott's mixmag mix-cd featuring techstep classics like Metropolis and Shadowboxing. Disappeared up its own minimalistic bum after 97 and is believed to have destroyed jungle in spite of some excellent work by Source Direct, Bad Company and Jonny L.

Not to be confused with Neurofunk ;)

Don't know what darkstep is, an offshoot of darkcore surely :)

Nation of Ulysses took a more correct and radical position than the mere reformist wing of Straight Edge you apparently choose to aid, denouncing the brushing of teeth: "Do not wipe away the taste of your life with the false and foreign taste of mint!"

They were also against sleep, I think.

"...listen, man, sleep gives you cancer, EVERYONE knows that!"

"I think Special Patrol Group is a stupid name for a hamster."

Curious process how some genre-isms rapidly become legitimate, and others viewed as pejoratives eg 'Trip-Hop', 'Post- Rock', 'Goth' 'Baggy'. Always been grateful the term 'Heroin House' for Chain Reaction-style house didn't take off myself.

Hmm, yes. Goths notoriously didn't admit to being goths.

In visual art, many of the genre names were coined as pejorative dismissals by critics: Fauvism, Impressionism, umm.. I'm sure there was another. I don't know whether Monet et al. disliked being called 'impressionists' or whether they threw it back in the critics faces, donning T-shirts with slogans like 'Impressionist Slut' emblazened across the front in sequins.

I can't remember whether the name 'baggy' started off as a piss take or a positive endorsement. I think many of us, me included, take an immediate dislike to any 'new genre' that is named by the music press in a non-critical way. Romo, New Wave Of New Wave.

Richard North (I think) attempted to pre-empt the naming of Gith — I mean Goth, but I'm leaving it in cuz it looks funny — by dubbing the music emanating from the Batcave POSITIVE PUNK, or POZ-PUNK. Which is even worse that tNWotNW.

What about "ravey"? I've recently been hearing this used more and more—to describe everything from the new Missy Elliott album to the MC Kie (?) shouting "this goes out to the raving crew" in "Fly Bi".

I've always associated the term w / I guess what we call "breakbeat" now, but w / lots of acidy Roland noises, a load of odd samples vocal and otherwise, and a slower tempo.

At a certain level, it becomes a "coin yer own genre" game, which Momus plays very artfully. I still don't know what this "handbag" genre is, but I think it would be a great name for rap which discusses, in the words of jay-z "fashion, y'know, prada blouse, gucci bra"

Happy Hardcore sounds like (and often is) 80s dance tunes spun at 2x their normal speed, with basic hardcore beats spun below them, also unusually fast. It feels like watching a disco sequence from an old 70s Hannah Barbara cartoon at 78rpm.

Another great genre name: Booty Base. Not to mention, Booty Bounce.

I challenge the assertion that there is something called "sludge-death". The physics of it are impossible.

Has anyone heard the band, Corrupted? They're a Japanese doomcore band who's lyrics are all in spanish (allegedly; they're pretty difficult to make out). Are they playing Japanese hardcore or Spanish hardcore? I've also heard of noisecore bands from Brazil whose songs are all in Italian. "Norwegian Black Metal" is not such a strange term, but it has at least two possible meanings, doesn't it?

Is Two Step the only actually musicological (however tenuously) genre name? (tom)

Can anyone enlighten me as to what the term 'two step' actually means? Although it popped up applied to UK garage a few years ago (and maybe it referred to the absence of a 4-on-the-floor kick that had been essential in garage prior to that point, but again why that term?), it had earlier (late 80's-early 90's) been used in the form 'two step soul' (aka 'street soul') which was an underground stratum of British soul/r&b often with a perceptible reggae influence.

mikno - as coined by E (my bad lieutenant), techno using irish melodies.

what was neurofunk, is it like nehrufunk ?

jazz-house is shite

So here's my former co-worker NB's 1999 list of definitions within Techno (her bf = working musician and club-mix producer). Her own profession of allegiance and explanation of the need for such narrow namebanding: "I like German Techno – not like Nosebleed Techno, but more Experimental Hardhouse Techno" and "When you've paid a lot for drugs, the last thing you want is an evening out in a club playing music you don't like"

Firstly, she divides the whole shebang into four general sub-categories: House, Garage, Techno and HipHop. Her list of sub-categories (including crossover sub- categories blurring the basic four) then goes as follows:

AMBIENT: Orb

JUNGLE: 1992-4, v.fast. Goldie began here, then moved to -

DRUM ‘N’ BASS: Breakbeats. (“Dead and buried,” says NB.)

SPEED GARAGE: v.fast w.vocals

GARAGE/HANDBAG: Vocally, melodic, ballady, black women wailing, 120-140BPM, Jr Vasquez. The term ‘Handbag’ is clearly derogatory (meaning ‘girly’)

HARDHOUSE/HARDBAG: 1994, at abt 160bpm, hard beats, four on the floor, pumping but still house (Leftfield), percussive, funky.

(The most physical aggression NB’s ever seen in clubs - Djs being booed off etc - is from Garage fans towards Hardhouse. Hardhousers invented the term ‘handbag’: meaning softcore, poppy, ‘chart’ music for lightweights, spillover from local clubs and discos, as opposed to hardcore sussed ‘scene’ ravers [this latter my term not hers]. Garagists invented the term ‘hardbag’, in revenge. I tried to draw her on whether there was an anti-gay aspect to this (given that Garage has VERY gay roots, NY’s Paradise Garage and Larry Levan – more on this later), but she won’t accept this.

TECHNO

Original: Detroit

Types: German, Belgian

Fast and hard, not housey generally: ‘nosebleed techno’ is worst, but still retaining elements of House, ie Der Dritte Raum [according to NB, basic distinction: House is still a little funky, slower bpm, vocal: good techno has good groove to it, faster bpm]

Detroit is more ‘old school’: quite ‘deep’.

DEEP HOUSE: still a bit vocally, percussive and bassy

INTELLIGENT TECHNO: Reload/early Aphex Twin. Techno musical style, but tracks ‘go somewhere’

INDUSTRIAL TECHNO:

PROGRESSIVE HOUSE: Late 80s, Justin Robertson. Offshoot of Acid House

GOA TRANCE/GABBA: Big tuns, ‘anthems’ with long drop-downs (NB: "yuk").

EURO: Horrid keyboards, quite slow and commercial

EURO TRANCE: Again ‘trancey’, but horrid keyboards, bit faster.

BALEARIC HOUSE: Ibiza scene, slow, percussive, housy, with a spanish feel

ELECTRO: Late 80s, Kraftwerk influenced: Two Lone Swordsmen

BIG BEAT: Lo-fidelity allstars - like it says, big fat beats, lo prod’n values. Vocals - crap.

NB hates the word ‘Rave’: it reminds her of a monster out of the Thomas the Covenanter novels. She can’t bear reading _Energy Flash_ as it’s “about my life and things I did – that’s NOT history yet!”

was there a similar sub-categorizing for hiphop?

THat list makes me want to cry.

Ethan: I never asked her that, cuz (a) she's not a fan (b) she's a semi-insider to a particular historical strand of the rave scene (Andy Wetherall to play at her wedding etc etc), and me? I never went to a rave in my life [I wanted *her* version, not my professional critic/read-it-in-reynolds version], (c) hiphop's identity is much much more defined by LPs than Techno's ("whatever's") is, and I'm no stranger to LP culture (d) or hiphop, come to that. But you can give us the hiphop lowdown...

I get confused about progressive house. Wasn't all that Guerilla Records stuff (early Spooky, D.O.P, Supereal) and early Leftfield/Djumm Djumm given that label? I really liked all that but 'progressive house' generally gets a slagging. If it isn't progressive house then what is it? I suppose you could call it 'Dub House Disco' after the compilation, but I'm not sure that ever gained currency.

I like NB's glossary. Minor quibble: putting Goa-Trance and Gabber/Gabba together. The former, to be sure, is characterised by long epic anthems with an ethnic, psychedelic twist. The latter, though, is much shorter, faster, nastier, brutish, gimmicky, and much more to my taste.

Jazz-house is an oxymoron.

Mookbag (Fountains of Wayne go house).

I get confused about progressive house. Wasn't all that Guerilla Records stuff (early Spooky, D.O.P, Supereal) and early Leftfield/Djumm Djumm given that label? (Nick)

That has always been my understanding of the term. It was pretty meaningless really. People like the word 'progressive' for obvious reasons - 'Retrogressive House' wouldn't have sounded so good would it?

The main thing to say about the genre was that it was a kind of precursor of Trance. The quantise was set on straight 16ths so it was a parting of the ways with the mainly American Garage/skippy House of the early 90's (eg Strictly Rhythm etc.) which was heavy on the 16th triplet quantise (and thus lead directly to 2 Step Garage).

Stevo: re minor quibble.

NB shortly thereafter told me a story abt her bf's band being completely mis-genred — by her grid — by fans when said band played in Scotland: in other words, pointed out that the lines and boundaries fell in very different depending on where you were looking and naming from. Can't a this moment find the anecdote in my archive yet: will do. Also — start holding breaths now — my agog transcript of the night that Paxman asked a question on University Challenge abt Techno subgenres, which makes the same point a rather difft. way.

University Challenge BBC2 28.11.99

PAXMAN: Starter for ten. What is the name of this type of dance-music? [starter track plays]

GIGGLY BLONDE STUDENT: [guessing wildly] Jungle!

MASSED RAVERS AT HOME: [to one another] No WAY is that Jungle!

P: Yes, Jungle. Good guess. Thec card had 15 lines of footnotes telling me what to say if you made other guesses. So three questions to you identifying dance music... [first track plays: students confer]

GBS: [a guess] Drum and Bass?

P: No, that was Big Beat

STUDENTS: [whispering to one another] Big Beat? Big Beat? [They've clearly never heard of Big Beat]

MRaH: [to one another] No WAY is that Big Beat!

[Second track plays. Students confer.]

GBS: Trance?

P: No, that was Ambient.

STUDENTS: [whispering to one another] No WAY was that Ambient! [They whisper crossly among themselves until Third track plays. They confer.]

GBS: [A guess, no clearly longer caring ] Synth?

P: No, that was Techno. You obviously don't get out enough.

MRaH: [by now choking with laughter, screaming, throwing stuff, chewing carpet etc etc]

I ran this past NB next day, and she laughed: "... but you can't judge what kind of music it is just by hearing it [my italics]. It depends where you're coming from. When [bf] was in [bf's band] and they played in Scotland, back when Happy Hardcore was the big thing there [and here she made a goony grimace and imitated, unwritably, the typical Happy Hardcore beat] someone came up after the set and said, 'So was that Ambient?' But [bf's band] were hard Hardcore Techno!!'

my eyes are bleeding. help.

Good god, and I thought *I* had no life... ;-)

I have never understood the vast species-genus classification of music, especially the ridiculous proliferation of sub-genres within dance music.

I have, though, usually noticed that those sub-genre classification names *rarely* if ever originate from the artists who create the music. Usually, they are tacked on afterwards by fans or, more likely, by music journalists. Almost as if to try and make *classification* of a style of music as much an act of creation and inspiration as the writing of the music itself...

more likely still: small record companies trying to justify/sell some ragged bunch-o-stuff via compilations (which incidentally is how "house" mainly changed its meaning between US and UK).

As Eddy's 'Accidental History Of Rock'N'Roll' testifies, genre taxonomy *can be* as inspirational and creative as most music.

mark - I remember around 1996-7 a Village Voice article explicitly proposed a new term - "Illbient". Really trying to put a name on the US (mainly Brooklyn) mutations of trip-hop. Spooky, Sub Dub, Byzar, We, etc. About a month later I see a comp in a Williamsburg record shop called "Incursions in Illbient" - I asked the guy about it, he was friendly w/the Byzar guys and told me that they thought Illbient as a term was utter bullshit but that they made the decision to use it because they figured it would help them sell records. Worked with me, so...

that was fucking hilarious
thanks

happy hardcore is shit btw - avoid at all costs

the 'synth' track was strings of life by the way

I like happy hardcore, though it does have very shit lyrics (mostly like the theme tune to Enterprise, vague faux-uplifting bollocks about touching the sky and the like). It is one of the dumbest genres, possibly the dumbest ever. I see this as a very good thing.