MIDI for beginners...

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So, I have your typical hundred dollar Casio keyboard. It has MIDI out and MIDI in. Im wondering a couple things:

1. What can I do, exactly, with MIDI?
2. Will it be hard? My keyboard isn't top of the line... will that be a problem?
3. What programs do I use? Are those complicated?
4. Is there anyway to export the created sounds from the keyboard?
5. Will I be able to take things from my computer and store it on my keyboard? (I mean, there IS a MIDI in)

Thanks.

― David Allen, Saturday, 4 January 2003 02:12 (twenty-three years ago)

yes

― dyson (dyson), Saturday, 4 January 2003 02:21 (twenty-three years ago)

You probably won't get much from the Casio itself in terms of actual sounds. You will find it more fruitful just to use it as a midi controller, ie transmitting note information to other devices which will then generate the sounds. You can hook it up to a midi sequencer on your computer which will record the sequences of notes you play and then replay them back through any software/hardware samplers/synths you have available.

Because your keyboard is very cheap you may find that it lacks certain features eg velocity (enables you to vary the volume as you play the keys harder or softer), pitch and modulation wheels (enable you to add vibrato to a sound or bend the pitch of a note up or down as it plays). Look at the midi implementation chart at the back of the manual - it will list what it can and can't do in terms of midi spec.

― David (David), Saturday, 4 January 2003 02:43 (twenty-three years ago)

When I used to make MIDIs I used Cakewalk Pro Audio. It's probably still a good program but I haven't checked out recent versions. I used it to read notes off my friend's keyboard (I think he has a Yamaha though), but not the sound of the keyboard itself, like David said.

― Vinnie (vprabhu), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:23 (twenty-three years ago)

1. What can I do, exactly, with MIDI?
Depends really on the keyboard, your standard 100 dollar casio, not much. MIDI is a great example of a well create standard. You connectors are 5 pin, the center is a ground, of the remaining 4 only two are used, the other two are saved for future use that probably will never happen. MIDI stores information about what you pressed on the key. Which key went down, possibly how hard it went down and when it came up and possibly how hard it was released. A MIDI controller either stores or sends this information. MIDI also allows for the sending of instrument specific information. Depends if your keyboard wants to store this information or not, most didnt keyboard manufactures wisely didnt explore this option. Basically it stores information on the note played and not the sound of the note itself. Which has some interesting implentations.
2. Will it be hard? My keyboard isn't top of the line... will that be a problem?
Not a problem at all. UNLESS, its a cheap mid 80s keyboard. My Ensoniq is grief to work with sometimes, a nice early 90s Korg or Poland will work beautifuly.
3. What programs do I use? Are those complicated?
Good lord no, if you can read notation you can use a midi program. They were created for Mac using computer illeterate musicians in the 80s for the most part. We had a thread about this in the past, while I don't know most new program I would recomend Cubase for PC. I think most now incorporate wav and other audio formats, I wouldnt know, I still use an ancient version of Cubasic (which does everything that I like except drum notation which I don't really remeber anymore anyways).
4. Is there anyway to export the created sounds from the keyboard?
Yes, as I mentioned its a beautiful standard. You can export both the notes and the settings for the notes, but the settings for the notes is done as a keyboard specific function, usually not very well handled by hardware but possible by MIDI standards.
5. Will I be able to take things from my computer and store it on my keyboard?
MIDI in is usually reffered to as the cord that connects and sends MIDI information backwards. If your talking about storage, it depends if your keyboard stores that information. It used to be that only sequencers stored that type of information, back in the days when 256 was good enough for all. Thats why a computer was such a godsend, basically unlimited storage of MIDI information. So some keyboards started getting wise and started having on-board sequencers, and thats where the problems with my Ensoniq started. Wonderful keyboard but horribly designed MIDI interface.
MIDI is a little antiquidated now days since we can store audio files on computers with ease. But back in the 80s you could do some things that seemed awfully wild for cheap. I got a grade 12 music credit for up keeping all my highschool's keyboards and fixing a few. I fell in love with a Poland D20 despite it already being put to shame by a D50.
Still if your into composition its great for sketching things out. Its one of the best 8bit things ever created.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:25 (twenty-three years ago)

You can buy a korg Electribe EA-1 Analog Modeling Synth, and control it with your casio keyboard instead of playing it with the little buttons that it has for a sorta-keyboard.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I have issues with modeling synths since I own and care for the real thing. Never should the two meet, keep your digital digital and keep your analoug warm and bubbly. Unless your talking about Leslie speaker pedals cause those things are bloody heavy.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:30 (twenty-three years ago)

i would not agree that midi is antiquated

― ron (ron), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Well done MIDI can be heard on The Church's Seance cd.
From 83 or so but the strings in "Electric Lash" are classic MIDI straight off a Yamaha OPL3 (the cheap mass produced chip of choice for computers (aka Soundblaster) through 96 or so) though it was probably something slightly more expensive back then.
I forgot to mention you must remeber if using a PC to map your MIDI output to your keyboard or else your soundcard will handle the sound, which is a bad thing unless its a specalty one. Its straightforwad but slightly intimidating to do.
A belated thanks to Ned and Chris for informing me of the reissue of Church's backcatalogue.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Let's say I wanted to take a small wav file, and put it onto my keyboard, so whenever I pressed a key it'd play that (I've seen this done by someone; a Brittish comedian, forget his name, he set a different George W Bush quote to each key and played them--hilarious results). Would it be possible for me to do that; or do I need a better keyboard? Is that done through MIDI?

― David Allen, Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:46 (twenty-three years ago)

i would not agree that midi is antiquated
Why not?
Its still in use, its still a great standard, but one can now cheaply and easily send and recieve audio information on a computer. Like tape backups, its still very much in use and has its purposes but has been replaced in normal day to day usage.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Would it be possible for me to do that; or do I need a better keyboard? Is that done through MIDI?

No. In line with the explanations already given you could do what you're asking by storing the sound as a sample in either a hardware or software sampler, then triggering the sample by the note information you send out when you press the keys on your Casio.

― David (David), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Would it be possible for me to do that; or do I need a
better keyboard? Is that done through MIDI?
yes and no. Master T used to do that back in the day when he wore shades on MM, with his keyboard "Roxy".
It would involve your keyboards ability to save multiple samples, possibly over different instruments. It could be done with MIDI but it might be a pain in the ass. Probably much easier to save the samples on a computer and patch the keys to play the different samples in a manner similar to the way your drum channel works.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 4 January 2003 03:52 (twenty-three years ago)

but one can now cheaply and easily send and recieve audio information on a computer

Very true. But if you want to use a sampled sound and play it back in real time from a keyboard (ie not program a pattern using some form of grid or key edit...not inputting notes one at a time with a mouse)
does any protocol yet exist to replace midi as a means of doing that?

― David (David), Saturday, 4 January 2003 04:00 (twenty-three years ago)

play it back in real time from a keyboard

I mean like a piano keyboard not a computer keyboard.

― David (David), Saturday, 4 January 2003 04:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Is that done through MIDI?

Yes. When I said 'no' I meant not storing the sound on your Casio.
The sound would be stored elsewhere but midi could easily be used to trigger the sound.

― David (David), Saturday, 4 January 2003 04:09 (twenty-three years ago)

No, its still got a use but its general purpose has been replaced by larger harddrivers, RAM and connections.
Thats enough out of me, Im watching Prince of Darkness, the John Carpenter movie where DJ Shadow stole the "You are recieving this transmission..." sample from.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 4 January 2003 04:11 (twenty-three years ago)

some of us haven't found an affordable minimoog, Mr. Noodles. Some os us have to make do with what we have. Seeing that now I have a KorgMS2000, that's becomeing less and less painful, but if you do have an OSCar or a Poly6 or a WASP or a Minimoog that you'd like to give me, just drop me an email. I'll pay whatever shipping there is to pay.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 4 January 2003 04:14 (twenty-three years ago)

No, its still got a use

As I see it the use that is currently still essential is at the input stage if you're a musician who's good at playing things in and doesn't want to be forced to programme everything in with a mouse. What is needed here is a 'MIDI 2.0' with a much faster transmission rate (so that WYPIWYH - no latency or erratic note transmission times). I agree that existing MIDI is becoming obsolete in a lot of other areas.

― David (David), Saturday, 4 January 2003 04:25 (twenty-three years ago)

by storing the sound as a sample in either a hardware or software sampler, then triggering the sample by the note information you send out when you press the keys on your Casio.

Thanks for the help. Could you point me to a good sampler? Are they expensive?

OR, as someone else said, I can trigger the stored sound on my computer. Is there anyway to connect my computer to an amp, so I can do this live?

― David Allen, Saturday, 4 January 2003 05:43 (twenty-three years ago)

midi is what's ReWiring my Sonar and Reason together, letting me play reason sounds, and softsynths, etc etc etc. i think the point is that it's an old, clunky standard. but it still is critical to how the PC music environment functions. samplers and outboard synths and all that as well.

check out reason, david. much more that a sampler, but it can play any sound you record into yr computer, and is a fun way to get into making electronic music. any recording-oriented soundcard will have outputs that you can plug into an amp or PA or home stereo or whatever.

― ron (ron), Saturday, 4 January 2003 09:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Re: samplers -you can either go the hardware or the software route. Hardware ones are more portable, reliable, arguably sound better, but software ones are easier to use, and you dont have to mess around with zip disks and the like. (plus, you can possibly get your hands on a pirated version to check it out if you have any nerdy pals). If you get a software one, you will need a soundcard that has decent quality stereo audio inputs and outputs (the m-audio audiophile is popular and cheap-ish). You will also need a midi interface so that your keyboard can tell your computer what notes to play. These can be built in to soundcards or separate (often usb devices). Ebay has tons of samplers, akai or emu are the biggest brands...

― Conor (Conor), Saturday, 4 January 2003 15:51 (twenty-three years ago)

As I see it the use that is currently still essential is at the input stage if you're a musician who's good at playing things in and doesn't want to be forced to programme everything in with a mouse.
I was thinking more the wonderfully dated 128 (or was it 256?) standard sounds, 16 channels part. There are extensions and work arounds galore nowdays for that.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 4 January 2003 18:34 (twenty-three years ago)

oxygen8 is a compact midi keyboard with usb or standard midi

― ron (ron), Saturday, 4 January 2003 22:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Re question 2: Will it be hard? I think the honest answer would have to be an emphatic YES.

The Prodigy have done some interesting things with MIDI technology.

― chris sallis, Sunday, 5 January 2003 02:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I started using MIDI when I was 10, so no, it's not complicated. It got pretty boring, and I stopped using it sometime last year.

― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 5 January 2003 03:08 (twenty-three years ago)

About cheap samplers: I recently bought a used Akai S20 and I'm very happy with it. I payed € 150, but I don't know what they usually go for.

― Orange, Thursday, 9 January 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I love my Oxygen8!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 9 January 2003 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

You could buy a USB-to-MIDI device, download a bunch of pirated software, and then you'll have a million nice keyboards which you can use your cheap Casios to control. Or you could use the computer to sequence songs and play them on your Casio... MIDI is swell!

Here's the cheapest USB-to-MIDI device (going for about $40 on musician's friend)...

http://www.midiman.net/products/midiman/USBuno.php

Oxygen8s only having two octaves is a bit of a bummer. My next new purchase will likely be this:
http://img.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/70/705359.jpg

SLIDES!! KNOBS!!!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 9 January 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

I got one of these...!!

http://www.maudio.co.uk/images/global/product_pics/big/mk249_mast_big.jpg

now what?

Explain to this layman all this terminology - MIDI, sequencer, softsynth, etc.

Any good online guides/tutorials for beginners?

― Semaphore Burns (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

meep

― a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:51 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...

Okay, so I am having problems with the keyboard above(http://www.maudio.co.uk/products/en_gb/MK249-main.html). I bought the keyboard on its own, no software, no cables. I am hoping to use it simply as a USB controller for Garageband/Reason/Logic. The M-Audio site tells me that I do not need drivers, so I hooked up the keyboard via USB and...errr, nothing happens. The keyboard does not seem to have power and my mac/Garageband do not seem to acknowledge that I have connected a USB device. Do still need a power pack? I thought that the USB would give the keyboard power from my laptop.

― I Named Veal (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 July 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)

how old is your laptop? I think there might be a difference between "USB 1.0" and "USB 2.0", the former of which does not transmit power, if i remember correctly. for what it's worth.

― b'angelo, Friday, 8 July 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

It's a G4 Powerbook. 1 year old.

I think I tried several USB cables, but you might be onto something there. Thank you! :)

― I Named Veal (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 July 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

powered via USB or optional power supply
&
power: USB or 9V DC 250-300mA centre-positive power adaptor (not included)

That doesn't sound too healthy then does it.

― Rufus 3000 (Mr Noodles), Friday, 8 July 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

No, help me out!

― I Named Veal (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 July 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

I have a different m-audio keyboard and it has a 3-way switch on the back. One position is off, one position is for when it's powered by the wall-wart, and the third position is for USB power. On top of that, when you switch it to USB power, it takes a few seconds to power up. It took me a while to figure this out when I first got the keyboard because I was turning the switch on and expecting the display to light up immediately and then turning it to a different position without waiting. I don't know if that's what's going on with yours but it's just a thought.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 8 July 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

I'll take a look but I think it has "On" and "Off", those two hoary old standards! ;)

― I Named Veal (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 July 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

Okay, I am at home trying this. I do appear to have USB2 but still no joy. Is there some way to "force" my mac to check for USB devices even when it does not recognize them?

Sorry to be such a n00b, I appreciate the help.

― Nevada Lime (nordicskilla), Saturday, 9 July 2005 01:57 (twenty years ago)

So is the keyboard even powering up? If so, go to your apple menu, and select "About This Mac". Click on "More Info..." then click on "USB" over on the left under "Hardware." You should be able to see all of the USB devices that are connected. Does the keyboard show up?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 9 July 2005 02:49 (twenty years ago)

another good mac audio solution is often "audio MIDI setup" in applications/utilities. I know that you can see which USB (musical) devices are there too, as well.

― b'angelo, Saturday, 9 July 2005 04:44 (twenty years ago)

i had a midi keyboard in 1992 and bought atari 1040ste, running notator .
it cost $1000 for vomputer and $1000 for software.comi,ciko = computer out, module in , computer in , keyboard out - it means i connected a sound module with drum kits and good piano sounds.
i can't write music but i played keyboard , the computer notated them and i printed out sheet music .
these days it's cheaper.
remember the computer doesn't create the music - the artist does.

― nerd of notator, Saturday, 9 July 2005 08:31 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

hi all. hoping someone can help. judging from stuff on this thread and some googling, i'm assuming i can connect my KORG PA80 to my brand new MacBook via MIDI?

Until now, I've been connecting the 2 using like a phone jack connection, which i know is ancient history. It seems I need a MIDI interface? And that'll connect to my comp via USB? is that right? and then i can just play my keyboard and it'll record onto GarageBand?

i'm hoping this will improve my signal a LOT. pls advise if you could! thanks ; )

― surmounter (rra123), Monday, 22 January 2007 01:22 (eighteen years ago)

when all i wanna do is enjoy a few drinks after a long week without breaking the bank.
i'm assuming i can connect my KORG PA80 to my brand new MacBook via MIDI?
when all i wanna do is enjoy a few drinks after a long week without breaking the bank.
i'm assuming i can connect my KORG PA80 to my brand new MacBook via MIDI?
when all i wanna do is enjoy a few drinks after a long week without breaking the bank.
i'm assuming i can connect my KORG PA80 to my brand new MacBook via MIDI?
when all i wanna do is enjoy a few drinks after a long week without breaking the bank.
i'm assuming i can connect my KORG PA80 to my brand new MacBook via MIDI?

― caek (caek), Monday, 22 January 2007 01:52 (eighteen years ago)

well, the KORG was my graduation present and the MacBook was my xmas present this year, from my parents. but this the first new computer i've had in several years...

now i just need to know how to connect the both of them so that they work together, for me. right now i feel like i'm working against myself by not taking advantage of the hardware.

― surmounter (rra123), Monday, 22 January 2007 03:40 (eighteen years ago)

If your keyboard has sounds on. You can go from the guitar style output into your computer. Probably using a 1/4" - 1/8" cable. You can then record what you play on your keyboard into your Macbook.

You could also use your keyboard as a controller for your Macbook. The keyboard just tells the computer what to play, and the computer makes the sounds.

The advantage of midi is that what you record is just controller information. Once you have recorded your MIDI data you can go back and change the notes, durations, other stuff.

More advanced than this you could also record the Midi data to your Macbook then have the Macbook tell your Korg what to play. This would require a MIDI cable going In and Out of the computer.

If your Korg hasn't got a USB connection that sends/receives Midi data you will need to get a little box that has Midi ins and outs on it. These are cheap and easy and google is your friend.

You'd prob be better off just learning how to use your Korg first. From the little I know about them you can do lots of shit on that alone.

― george bob (george bob), Monday, 22 January 2007 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/newanswers.php?board=12

― nervous (cochere), Monday, 22 January 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

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