Tangerine Dream. Godfathers Of Electronic?

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I read a magazine article a while back which claimed TD were "kraftwerk before Kraftwerk did it" now historical importance doesnt matter. But i was impressed when i read they pissed off an NME journalist so much hecstormed out of an interview and continually slagged them off ever after. Why? Because They had the audacity(and foresight) to claim that within 10 years "there would be bands at the top of the charts with NO GUITARS"
Of course John peel was a huge fan and named 'Atem' as his album of the year back then. I bought it and it was ambient before eno did it. I can see the huge 'I' word on Aphex Twin etc Paul Hartnoll of Orbital said his fave TD album was 'Force Majeure' which was excellent and was a melodic instrumental kraftwerk type album.
But are any of the other albums worth getting? Julian Cope says the 1st 4 are the best. But AMG and many others say great things about 'Phaedra'.
TD seems to be split into 3 eras An avant garde 'Can' type rock band with Violins/guitars/drums/organ then experimental electronic albums which get more accessible,but no less unique,then the 80s new age stuff which seems to be the reason they arent part of the 'canon'.
Should the 70s stuff be checked out then? Where to start?

― Brian, Saturday, 4 January 2003 08:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Or are they one of the bands who are enormously important in the development of modern music, but whose records arent that great?
Also any of the solo albums or spin off bands(if there are any) worth checking out?
Anyone know of a site that has a list of the top krautrock or early electronic albums?

― Brian, Saturday, 4 January 2003 08:38 (twenty-two years ago)

from AMG "Without doubt, the recordings of Tangerine Dream have made the greatest impact on the widest variety of instrumental music during the 1980s and '90s, ranging from the most atmospheric new age and space music to the harshest abrasions of electronic dance. "

But despite Cope,Aphex Twin etc recommednations of the 1st 4 albums as the most experimental and best. AMG only seems to like 'Atem' but only givs it 4. 'Phaedra' gets 5.(the 5th album)
Has anyone who has heard the albums tell me if theyre as good as 'Atem' or 'Force Majeure'?
Thanks.

― Brian, Saturday, 4 January 2003 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, on the original 'Artificial Intelligence' comp, in the little profile section where each artist was asked to name their favorite electronic tracks, Autechre listed "Exit" ('Exit', '81) and Richie Hawtin listed "Astral Voyager" ('Green Desert', rec. '73 rel. '86). The latter, though recorded around 'Atem' was supposedly fucked w/ by Froese for its eventual late '80s release. I've not heard either cut.

I only own the first five. I would say 'Phaedra' is worthwhile, but returns for me diminish at this point. But that Autechre name-check has always made me want to at least audition some '80s stuff.

The first Edgar Froese solo album 'Aqua" is supposed to be pretty nice, though again I've not heard it.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 4 January 2003 09:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Force majeure id descrive as being almost trancey. But not like the shit made nowadays.
I just found out that i had downloaded a couple of Klaus Schulze albums a while back and ive just listened to them. They were pretty good. 'Irrlicht' and 'Timewind'. I might check out a few more.
Has anyone ever heard Manuel Göttsching - E2-E4? An awful lot of people in the detroit scene(and beyond) claim that as an influence. It really is a great record.
Are Cluster/Kluster , La Dusseldorf,Harmonia any good?
I dont know why but i always associated krautrock with guitar bands, but clearly it isnt like that at all.
I wonder why German musicians didnt have american rock or jazz influences like other european bands at the time.
They seemed to want to ditch the past. More so than Punk, which was heavily indebted to the past, which made the 'year zero' claims so ridiculous.
Perhaps thats why they said it, so kids wouldnt buy 'old' music, so wouldnt realise what a rip off it was.

― Brian, Saturday, 4 January 2003 09:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Are Cluster/Kluster , La Dusseldorf,Harmonia any good?

Oh my god yes.

The two Harmonia albums are two of my absolute favorites from this whole scene. Cluster 'Zuckerzeit' has a similar sound, but I prefer the Harmonia stuff. Brilliant music evocative of a wide range of inner images/scenes. I like the Eno/Harmonia thing too, but the original first two are the top.

The earlier Cluster II is much heavier/portentous, but in the right mood it can be perfect. The last couple tracks totally evoke a feeling of being trapped in the creaking, unsteady hull of an old spacecraft.

La Dusseldorf much closer to Neu with that insistent 'motorik' (ugh) beat, but very enjoyable.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 4 January 2003 10:17 (twenty-two years ago)

'Exit' is great. About half the tracks on it are great anyway, and the rest are definitely worth hearing. Bleepy, atmospheric and grandoise. Andrew Eldritch from Sisters of Mercy has often cited one of the tracks from Alpha Centauri (79) as a fave.

― bartelski (hamish1), Saturday, 4 January 2003 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you think Tangerine Dream did have a major influence on Synth Pop (i know Human league were fans, but they started as an 'Arty Band')
I cant see what Tangerine Dream/Kraftwerk had in common with Pet Shop Boys or Erasure for instance.
I'd say there was more an influence on Dance or Post/space rock bands.
Although im sure someone will disagree.

― Brian, Saturday, 4 January 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

The influence went a whole lot further than just the electronic/ambient scenes. Odd as it may seem, Klaus Schulze/Tangerine Dream was very popular with the first wave of Norse black metal musicians. Aside from incorporating the ambient drone musical approach in their regular guitar-based music, Gylve "Fenriz" Nagell of Darkthrone, Vidar "Ildjarn" Vaaer of Ildjarn/Sort Vokter and Varg "Count Grishnackh" Vikernes of Burzum all recorded instrumental all-synth space/drone albums a la TD, and Mayhem used/ripped a Tangerine Dream's "Silvester Anfang" as the intro to "Deathcrush".

― Siegbran (eofor), Saturday, 4 January 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

My question is this: of the bands who started out playing as TD did (see Ash Ra Temple, Kluster, et al), how can you tell who was doing what first? It seems any of those bands could've made the claim to being godfathers of electronic.

― dleone (dleone), Saturday, 4 January 2003 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Uusally lazy journos say Kraftwerk but TF definitely did have synths before them BUT doesnt mean they were the 1st.
But why are the likes of TD written out of history (usually by the likes of nme etc) yet kraftwerk are in the canon?
I love both bands and TD probably influenced dance music while Kraftwerk had a bigger influence on synthpop.
Who were the 1st synthpop band?

― Brian, Saturday, 4 January 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I say search any 70s, maybe up to Tangram. Phaedra is classic.

By the 80s you have to watch out 'cos they start using digital synths and "instrument" presets. Which make them sound like bad Wyndham Hill.

Unlike Kraftwerk, they're never pop in the sense of writing 3 minute songs. The 20 minute semi-improvised workout is their standard.

Also, anyone remember which TD track the KLF sampled as the basis of "It's Grim Up North"

― phil jones (interstar), Saturday, 4 January 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

In A Silent Way invented ambient, didn't it?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Sunday, 5 January 2003 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

This months Uncut has a review of the Tangerine 'Zeit' Reissue.
They give it 5 stars and call it the 1st post-rock album 20 years before post rock was invented.
Its a fine album. I recommend it and Alpha Centauri.
Electronic Meditation is very much like early can and the 1st 2 Kraftwerk albums. Violins,Guitars, Drums etc. Its very good but nothing like what followed.
I have never heard the 80s stuff but i think stratosfear was out 79/80 and is probably the best of the mid period stuff. Fans of kraftwerk may like it.
Alo worth checking out is Cyclone. It has vocals on it!
I think the soundtracks albums are the ones to avoid. The current dancey stuff i have not heard.

If you like TD check out Ashra Tempel,Klaus Schulze/Manuel Gottsching.
There used to be a site that had a list of 100 top krautrock albums, but unfortunately i cant find it. Perhaps someone else can help?

― kenny, Sunday, 5 January 2003 06:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Kraftwerk's reputation is much more weighted upon their late 70s/early 80s albums such as "Trans Europe Express", "The Man Machine" & "Computer World". On those records it is a much more direct line to the techno/electro/etc music that would follow.

Check out the song "Numbers", it definitely to me sounds not unlike alot of the early 90s Detroit and related techno music.

Kraftwerk's early albums are interesting listening, but they are much more experimental, sounding closer to maybe Faust -- than any of the other German groups.

Tangerine Dream records up until Chris Franke left the group are all pretty solid. I've managed to pick up fourteen of them out of cheapy bins on vinyl from "Electronic Meditation" to "Le Parc". My favorites are "Phaedra", "Stratosfear", and probably "Zeit". There are a few sections of their music that sounds very contemporary and their are large swaths that definitely sound of its time. (I don't know if it is still the case, but you can many of TD's albums dirt cheap on vinyl. I picked up nine at one time for like $15 bucks.)

The two original Harmonia albums are great. I like them as much as Neu! and Cluster. I think that Bowie and Eno definitely was into their sound when they were making "Low".

I can't say the same for La Dusseldorf. I've only heard "Viva" and it just wasn't nearly as good as Harmonia or Neu!.

― earlnash, Sunday, 5 January 2003 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I love Zeit. It's the audio equivalent of watching a glacier melt.

― brg30 (brg30), Monday, 6 January 2003 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

the music of TD is vomit. They never made a good record, they never ever put any kind of a vibe on tape. It was straight up cheese.

Now E2E4 by Manuel Gottsching is a jam and a half. If you are going to spend money on kraut records, look into Neu, Harmonia, Kraftwerk, Cluster, and the Cluster and Eno records. TD is completely avoidable.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Monday, 6 January 2003 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

ten years pass...

I've got to say Tangerine Dream has done a nice job getting their catalog re-compiled and back out there. I recently got these and the sound and setup is really pretty good, especially for the price.

Sunrise in the Third System: The Pink Years Anthology 1970-1973 2 CDs: compilation from Electronic Medition, Alpha Centauri, Zeit, Atem & Green Desert

The Virgin Years 1974-1978 3 CDs -includes: Phaedra, Rubycon, Ricochet, Stratosfear & Cyclone
The Virgin Years 1977-1983 5 CDs -includes: Encore, Force Majure, Tangram, Exit, White Eagle, Lgos & Hyperborea

The Virgin Years includes some 7" and other edits that were released at the time of the LPs. Sunrise on the Third System is a good compilation, but I suppose they could have done the whole thing complete with 4 Cds.

There is also another compilation of the 80s material and Edgar Frose solo records out there. Hopefully they will follow up with a boxset of the soundtrack work to follow, as there is some great stuff on some of those LPs.

― earlnash, Sunday, 5 May 2013 14:05 (twelve years ago)

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