Simon Reynolds' top albums are UP

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haven't read yet, just thought y'all'd like knowing.

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 6 January 2003 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Consensus!

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 6 January 2003 09:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Interpol!!!

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 6 January 2003 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Patrin will wet his pants over the El-P comment

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 6 January 2003 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Bloody good point about Flaming Lips/Common/Roots too. Meta-rock pisses me off.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 6 January 2003 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Bloody good point

What point? As an educated listener that transcends genre (ahem) I love these records. If there's a chance to be blown away, I like to take it.

― JoB (JoB), Monday, 6 January 2003 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course, such is the US rap scene’s nativism and isolationism (a curious syndrome worth analysing in depth: weird how US hip hop’s awesome self-sufficiency, its totally closed-offness to foreign influences, oddly mirrors the country’s America-First foreign policy),

Ahem ... Timbaland ripping off hits from Bollywood, Egyptian and Arabic sources doesn't count then?

― phil jones (interstar), Monday, 6 January 2003 09:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually think he gave those records far too much credit actually (although I'm willing to suspend judgment on the Roots album until I hear it because people I know who agreed with my assessment Roots=hip-hop's Wynton Marsalis say this album is pretty great so who knows). The Flaming Lips album is the frontrunner in most overrated album '02 sweepstakes (we'll have to wait for the Pazz & Jopp to see if it ranks over Beck). Anyhow, ninth year running a Reynold's wrap-up *ducks* has had a Human League title on it. Go for the gold Simon!

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 6 January 2003 09:58 (twenty-two years ago)

JoB - I'd like to consider myself an educated listener who transcends genre too, and I am constantly looking for the chance to be blown away, but meta-rock is continually and resolutely failing to do so and therefore just gets a big 'meh'. I am, however, jizzing big-time over anything that sounds like latter-period Talk Talk at the moment.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 6 January 2003 10:37 (twenty-two years ago)

these artists would like to address a no-longer-existent audience, an educated listenership that transcends genre. (Genre, being predicated on taste-tribes, is inimical to this sort of Album, which aims for universality, is predicated on the notion of an Everyman or human core beneath all the identity politics).

This having put The Streets at #1. I love OPM but isn't it exactly the sort of album that appeals to an educated, cross-genre audience by appealing to universal human values?

― phil jones (interstar), Monday, 6 January 2003 11:06 (twenty-two years ago)

universal human values = getting drunk and hiding from your dealer? woohoo!

― zebedee, Monday, 6 January 2003 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I love OPM but isn't it exactly the sort of album that appeals to an educated, cross-genre audience by appealing to universal human values?

thank fuck for that!

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 6 January 2003 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Roots=hip-hop's Wynton Marsalis

That is ridiculous! Even in the past, but Phrenology is indeed the best possible counter-example. Go listen to it. Even if you don't like, it will bury your preconceptions.

BTW, was is so meta and genre-transcending about The Flaming Lips? A few bleeps in the indie-rock?

― JoB (JoB), Monday, 6 January 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i think he's otm regarding opm....gah, what an annoying way to say that

also agree with the view of 2 Many DJ's smugness...still great tho

and Ladytron - well, 'light and magic' may cast doubts but the fact remains there are enough tracks on the first album that hold their own against ANY sullen synth-pop of the 80s in my book

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 6 January 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

No, the 'meta' in The Flaming Lips is their magnificent and previosuly unheard-of fusion of prog rock, indie rock, and pop. (Note ironical things.)

And The Streets may well appeal to an educated genre-transcending audience by appealign to universal human values, but I think SR's point was that Yoshimi/MRev/Sprtlzd/Roots/Common etcetera's efforts to make such a record are hamstrung immediately by their ambition to do just so. ie; If you want to write the great american literary novel (for example) you're not going to be able to because you have to almost do it by accident. Same with records. And I know BW was trying to make the art as pop genre transcwending educated listener album with Pet Sounds, but he was MAD and had his piano in a sandpit, and, as Deleuze and Guiattarry (sic) said, being schizo lets you transcend stuffness and act without the influence of stuffness.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 6 January 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm glad someone else railed against metro area, at least for a little while

also it'd be cool if you really could squint your ears. it's fun trying too

― zemko (bob), Monday, 6 January 2003 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

man! i'm gonna become a singersongwriter and call it deleuze and guitarry! like dom and roland!

― zemko (bob), Monday, 6 January 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm gonna found a dub-pop collective and call it Asskickers Of The Fantastic after some obscure US superhero comic.

Yes, I know no one asked.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 6 January 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

That dudes' comments on The Flaming Lips might have been spot on if they had released Zaireeka this year, not the extremely-listenable-and-normal-in-comparison Yoshimi.

I agree with the headline of the old thread about this guy being a gobshite.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 6 January 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

So on the one hand, US hip-hop is isolationist and rappers who talk about dealing drugs are peddling self-destructive myths.

On the other hand, US rappers who attempt to transcend genre (and presumably isolationism, since genre is based on taste-tribes) and redeem hip-hop from the thugz are overweening, off-putting and tedious.

― Ben Williams, Monday, 6 January 2003 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Thank the lord for booty rhymes eh?

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 6 January 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Unsurprisingly, I say that every morning when I wake up.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 6 January 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Nicely done. I agree w/ his comments re Metro Area -- I like them even keeping in mind all the things I don't like about them. And the MMW comparison was frighteningly spot on. Egads.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 6 January 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

well, the overpraise for Casino vs Japan makes a little more sense now, having read this. That apart, I find lots to agree with in this round up.

Has SR heard the Köhn album, does anyone know?

― Jeff W, Monday, 6 January 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Choosing to rip apart Common by quoting the lyrics I like the most off of his single is not going to convince me any, I must say. Also, did he actually say anything about The Roots album specifically (beyond "'Water' is great!")?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 6 January 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

[...]ROYSKOPP – Melody A.M. [...]

Agh, trivial I know, but when first Tom does this in the ILX RotY and then Reynolds in his list (and lots of people on ILM passim), I have to Protest on Behalf of the Norwegian Language!:

It's RÖYKSOPP! OK, skip the ¨ if you must, but please get the consonants in correct order.

― OleM (OleM), Monday, 6 January 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

My humble apologies to the Norwegian people. I always misspell Lavigne too and have to correct that so they're in good-ish company.

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 6 January 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

One of my best friends from high school told me that Avril fired her bass player by giving him a cake that said "So Long, Motherfucker!" across the top of it. This (and her new single) has done more to rehabilitate her in my eyes than hours and hours of ILX debate ever could.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 6 January 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh heh heh. Give in, give in.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 6 January 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Writing about rap always makes Simon read like Jane Goodall. But I love his electro stuff cuz it gives me something to look forward to when I hit the dollar bins in 5 years.

― Scott Seward, Monday, 6 January 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I always enjoy him...it seems those "on the fence" records reflect a kind of problem a lot of people who've been listening for a long time encounter(and is worse for him, as he's writing about it)
ie while you desparately crave to be involved, to engage with music which is "on the ground" (buying 12"s the week they come out) you can't escape a kind of "meta" listening or a kind of nostalgia.

― gaz (gaz), Monday, 6 January 2003 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Nice article.

There's a pre-release version of Original Pirate Material?

― Evan (Evan), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, it's got "New York City Cops" on it

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I might like the Streets more if he cut down on the sloganeering, did more novelty songs, less songs about how good he is and had more than just a loop going over and over and over and over and over underneath his voice. But he didn't, so I don't get all the stinkin' praise.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

my praise smells of Calvin Klein's Obssession For Mike Skinner

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

less songs about how good he is

well he's actually quite modest/humble but given this is pretty much the dominant theme in 95% of hip hop lyrics i think you should cut him some slack

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Choosing to rip apart Common by quoting the lyrics I like the most off of his single is not going to convince me any, I must say.
That kind of bugged me - I think Reynolds is totally misinterpreting the line here.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I also think that, Minor Threat tribute aside, that Roots album fits pretty seamlessly into the thread started by _Things Fall Apart_. I don't see The Roots as being determined to transcend genre as much as I see them as trescending the way SR has defined hip-hop. I need to hear the Common album to fully judge, but based on the single it seems that the "smugly tries to transcend genre" criticism is also off the mark.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i like this top ten. i retract my previous comment about simon reynolds' music taste being "patronizing and insulting" or something.

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

His only comment about the two Dalek records is really irritating:

"Shouldn’t we all be over 'noise' by now?"

That's right, because ALL NOISE IS THE SAME.

― charlie va (charlie va), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, yeh, by that logic you could say the same thing about bootlegs or whatever

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Shouldn't we all be over pop music by now?

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

and had more than just a loop going over and over and over and over and over underneath his voice.

And that's why the remixes (Jameson, Royksopp, etc) are so much better than the album tracks.

― Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 7 January 2003 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"Shouldn’t we all be over 'noise' by now?"

Someone take down the internet. We don't need it anymore.

― Charlie (Charlie), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Damnit, aren't we all just hideously bored of music? If not, we ought to be. Right?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Wrong.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 10:05 (twenty-two years ago)

yes well in theory noise and bootlegs and whatever are as varied and limitless and clockless and whatever as pop but the reality is...no. you reactionary brain-in-a-jars you. anyway much of the simon's schtick is shrugging off the obvious canonical and being hypersubjective, tracking trends and fashions etc

― zemko (bob), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

(i dunno if stevem was cracking a joke there, and if it was i'm reckoning a bitter pro-boot one. if not then soz)

― zemko (bob), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

zemko LURVES simon!

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry, that was infantile...and no, no joke intended about the bootlegs really - but you're right about the 'in theory' thing

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

no we need more kneejerk slurs around here! :)

i do like him a lot but actually i have taken a coupla mumbled pops at him lately on ilx. sometimes i wonder about his eagerness to find a new trend and cram it into a continuum, however useful and provocative a tool it undeniably and esp enjoyably is

― zemko (bob), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

yes well in theory noise and bootlegs and whatever are as varied and limitless and clockless and whatever as pop but the reality is...no.

Well what is the reality, then? Do you really hear more similarities than differences between Dalek and Black Dice and Blectum from Blechdom, other than that they're all "noisy"?

― charlie va (charlie va), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

noisyness isn't Noise. "noise and bootlegs" this makes sense to you in yr world?

― zemko (bob), Thursday, 9 January 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

(in the context of my sentence of course)

― zemko (bob), Thursday, 9 January 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Not to get super technical or anything, but Reynolds didn't capitalize it. And what does "noisiness" mean, really, but "the presence of noise"? Also, the Dalek record isn't a "Noise" record in any sort of capitalized sense. There are beats and rhymes all over the place.

― charlie va (charlie va), Thursday, 9 January 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Pls ignore the second sentence of my last post for the time being.

― charlie va (charlie va), Thursday, 9 January 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I've read the comments on the 'lips. interesting argument (haven't heard yoshimi to agree or not).

must check whether he mentions rave punk or not?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 9 January 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

"overall this shows how things that are ghastly defects in rock- quirkiness, eccentricity, whimsy - are actually positive attributes in electronic music, lending personality, warmth and wetness to what seems clinical, disembodied and dry"

i think my brain must've inserted 'seen as by rockists' re ghastly defects when i first read this in the talon slalom review; is this a badly constructed bit of sarcasm (it's not like ppl don't find the same quirkiness etc still ghastly in blectum's music) or can he be sincere?

― zemko (bob), Friday, 17 January 2003 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

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