The most interesting genre music is not made by people associated with the culture...

However, when other people started messing with country, I like. Because there's just so many possibilities that modern "country" artists refuse to take; so hell, let other people take it for them.

Well, doesn't it? Isn't that the very definition of credibility? (Rather than "cred")

2. It gives no credit to people who originally create the style of music, just the people who add to it (trying to avoid saying "steal it"). What, so kids from the 'hood can't be geniuses?

Fair point when talking about rap, sure. But the article is about Country music, in which case the people who originally created the genre have been dead for half a century. There's an assumption that American alt.country bands have a right to the heritage while other countries do not. What I find is that people who approach this sort of music without the baggage, without the cliches, end up making music that captures the spirit rather than the letter of the "law".

Thinking about the "it requires an outside to give credibility" thing, I see the point when it's something like Paul Simon or Sting or Damon Albarn (delete according to what generation you are) because that is a westerner viewing a non-western genre. But I guess I'm making exceptions for people from a different sub-culture judging/reinterpreting someone from the same general culture... dunno.

I *like* Herman Dune because it's a Swedish/French band offering their take on C&W, which is slightly more of a stretch than American or even English bands taking on C&W. I'd probably like even more to hear a Nigerian musician do their take on C&W, make that one-way flow go more two-way.

So you're left with "Music made from within a culture as great if it's a culture I like".

This is the criticism that I worry about the most, hence the "I only like country music if it's really indie-rock."

anyway, thanks for input...

Another point: Maybe genre music made by people who do not belong to the culture associated with the genre is only more interesting to the people outside of that culture. Like maybe the original musical culture is too foreign or alien to outsiders, so it needs to be tampered with to be made acceptable. I.e., I can't stand modern country music, so for me to like it, I would have to add walls of feedback or something. But modern country music as it is is apparently already interesting enough for millions of other Americans.

Nitpicking: what is genre music? Is there nongenre music?

for me, i think the best comes from insiders not outsiders. outsiders try to 'subvert' genre, but make it safe for different audience (i'm thinking squarepusher/tigerbeat6 here). the best stuff comes from those inside that push at the edges, so theres gradual shifts. outsiders tend to obliterate, throw baby out with bathwater, OR, even worse, be overly reverent, afraid to take risks. i think those that work within the parameters of a scene, but cause frisson at its edge are the most exciting acts. the sense of OCCASION is there with this, which genre outsiders cannot muster

what is also interesting is what is or isnt counted as an insider/outsider. eg, DJ Marky etc, in 96 or whatever, the idea of brazilian drum'n'bass would have been seriously outsider, but today, prime mover, inside the genre...

Jimmie Rodgers shore is dead, but Wade Mainer is still alive and kicking at 95 (he was still playing the banjo as of a few years ago). You have not heard country music until you have heard the first two volumes of Wade Mainer, Early and Great on Old Homestead. Before "bluegrass" and "country and western" became identified as distinct genres, it was all hillbilly music and it was sweeeeeeeeeet.

The insider/outsider formulation is totally facile and thus DUD.

I get really touchy with the use of the terms "insider" and "outsider" they are such loaded terms, and besides, who decides who's in and who's out? That was terminology that I was trying to avoid in the article, but now they've been raised, I see my reasoning as even more bullshit.

Noodles: do you like mineral water?

Isn't that kind of a straw man argument? Sure, Spacemen 3 might be better than the Str*kes, but in order for this thesis to be proved, wouldn't they also have to be better than VU?

Australia has a huge country music scene - some is the C&W we know and (occasionally) love, but some is crazy shit involving indigenous Aussie influences an' that.

You love it, you know you do. :-)

Well, you are NOODLES, aren't you?