Madonna vs Nico

possible alt TS: mirwais vs jackson browne

+ Camera Obscura is infinitely better than anything Madonna ever did.

This isn't a fair fight....

..How do you think Madonna whill die, anyway? Will it be romantic or will she be old, fat and wrinkly muttering "I used to be a starrrr...gkx"

The synthesis here is Claudia Brucken, no?

what are the bets for TS: Ari vs Lourdes?

jackson browne vs. shep pettibone - shep wins!!

Well we will have to see if she gets her child, little Coco or whatever she's called, hooked on said drug.

Michael is OTM.

''whereas Madonna inhabited and epitomised her time perfectly - much harder to do I'd say.''

every successful pop star does the above. and we have a few like that every decade. nico wasn't really going for that was she?
madonna: a few good singles and that's it, like every pop star then. next!

Hmmmm. You're right on that one, Tom. Still,.....she remains a thousand times cooler. She also has the advantage of being dead, thus has attained an impenetrable mythic status mythos that cements her as an icon, whereas Madonna has the rest of her wretched life to befoul her legacy with ham-fisted endeavors like "Swept Away" (not that I've seen it, mind you)

Sorry to get all James Joyce-stream-of-consciousness there.....too much coffee this morning, I'm afraid. Time to stop Honouring the Caffeine!

but that's to be expected. madonna was a pop star while nico was a force of nature.

Well said, Julio.

"Alex what is your definition of cool? It seems to be stuck in about 1971!"

I'd say my definition of cool exists somewhere between 1981 (vintage Killing Joke) through 1992 (vintage Cop Shoot Cop).

on the other hand everyone LIKES madonna.

oh no! a hurricane is a force of nature tom.

Alex "force of nature" and "you either loved or hated it" are enfeebled cliches not insightful comments (sorry Julio) - I ph34r for the Nu Yorkah.

Neither of them are as good as BUSTED - although speaking of which, their latest single slags off boy bands - b-b-but BUSTED do you SEE?!

As if her film career is even going to touch her musical _which will be her primary_ legacy. If that was the case, she would have been over 17 years ago, due to something called "Shangai Surprise."

This debate could turn phun. Face it. Nico is at best a footnote in rock history, a hipster's pinup-idol-by-association who is deemed so cool by people wanting to be cool that she automatically approaches uncoolness. It's all repuation - empty hype - sorry. Madonna defines cool, if any woman can be defined as being "a force of nature" in pop culture within the past few decades on the basis of ambition + output alone, it is her. Nico was an Andy Warhol hanger-on; Madonna became the epitome of Warholian pop-art, proving his "15 minutes of fame" theory but giving a neat little spin on it - every single persona of hers lasts 15 minutes in the pop-culture time-span. Madonna consummated Warhol's ideals even if someone like Nico half-inspired them. Also, Nico is not akin towards being worshipped as a secular Westen goddess in Islamic countries (read the Amazon.com reviews of "Immaculate Collection" from Egypt). Plus, Nico probably didn't shower EVERY single day in 1967. Madonna most probably did. Madonna wins.

its OK: i know they are not insightful comments and nor are they meant to be. more like hysterics but i love nico.

I like things that divide! and with nico it was like that. i think its tough to have a middle ground on her and i think that's a good quality to have. she was a one off for me.

''this is like the bit in a jackie chan fillum where he beats off all the bad guys single-handedly.''

well you do like madonna's stuff more so of course you'll agree.

I will take off the magic Tuxedo now cos to be honest the only Nico I know well is the VU vocal stuff - heard a couple of other albums but they didn't make much impression.

Nico was a hanger on and she still managed to make good and well, pretty unique records.

Tom is basically 'I don't like her voice so dud'. that's fine but lets not pertend its abt anything more than that. same for V. I have real contempt for 'culture' and i don't take Warhol's statements seriously.

yes, she really worked hard. after ALL SHE HAD A CAREER AND MADE LOADS OF MONEY!

Nico is a 8 foot seven inch zombified behemoth who made inroads modeling clothing manufactured by the curtain and drape industries; a yak larynx replacement surgery and a wiccan "cat toture" training got her a spot in Andy's VU. Guilty by association. Game: Nico. ¥

Now let me just hose the piss off my parade here and point out that Nico did Marble Index, Desert Shore and The End. Check 'em out before you subscribe to the Ollie Stone school of music history where N is only fit to suck Jimbo's cock.

Oh who fuckin' cares about that?

and actually I just like to point out that I haven't used the 'cool' word as well (I see it used so often that i don't honestly know what it is). its one of those words that should be put down etc etc.

''Oh who fuckin' cares about that?''

taht was a joke alex.

Madonna singing 'Janitor of Lunacy' sounds like a superficial, opportunistic dork. She gets some crappy flavour of the month producer to give it 'the latest house beat'. The video is very expensive but totally lacks the resonace of Philippe Garrel's 'La Cicatrice Interieure'.

Nico, however, lends mystery and gravitas to just about all Madonna's material. The way she sings 'I'd like to put you in a trance', it sounds like the Reaper coming to get you.

Nico, Nico, Nico.

(I.e.: Julio lives in some world where Madonna did not make any records? Or just none worth commenting on when making direct comparative judgments with someone else's?)

no nabisco. I have said above that I like her singles BUT I think nico's recs were better.

more like 15th century.

*has visions of roasted BOAR*

So Julio, I assume you mean Madonna = singles gurl whereas Nico = albums gurl!!! ALERT!!! ALERT!!!

(This thread will be cited in the great rockist debate of 2054 I just know it!)

''Nico = Artist
Madonna = Shrewd Business Woman''

I've no idea how nico presented herself.

"totally lacks the resonace of Philippe Garrel's 'La Cicatrice Interieure'" = "it is not actually the worst film ever made including the srtyle council's JERUSALEM"

um, sorry for not factoring any 'cultural' considerations. I think i better go home now.

Replace "Madonna" with "Nico" and you have my opinion on the matter.

I haven't seen 'Jerusalem', but 'La Cicatrice Interieure' was a film I watched incessantly in 2001 and loved; moody, atmospheric, otherworldly, and letting the 'Desertshore' album set its whole agenda. Sand, ice, Nico at her most beautiful, reading poems in German, riding white horses, singing tenderly to her son Ari -- who could ask for more?

The worst film ever made is, of course, that Guy Richie Madonna vehicle they just released, that remake thingy set on a desert island. Nobody liked it! Straight to video!

(Tim you are entirely OTM. Expect this to continue until approx the 28th)

pics=> dud! its 2 dimensional for crying out loud.

Tim=> Tom's innings was impressive but I came in with my wrist spin and bowled him. he has weaknesses to work at.

Because despite what I just posted on a thread about the Vines ("I hate predictable cliché!"), I am a slave to the stuff.

"I'd like to state that the Killing Joke pic (I assume its killing joke) has made me reconsider my temporary alliance with Alex. let us resume hostilities!"

Ah, let's!

Fair enough, but compared to the antics of an attention-starved, stardom-crazed media whore (hello, Madonna), not giving a fuck is positively a virtue.

Ah, yes, was that "Marvelous Fists", or "A Gai Waak"?

madonna wins.

been listening to Syd's complete works CONSTANTLY for 5 days now ...

i guess it's a bit late to respond to this but what the hell is a "selfish" singer?

-- Wyndham Earl (wyndham_ear...), January 13th, 2003.

wot was nico's racism?

when I saw the iconic full-page ad for Madonna's madison square garden concert a few months back, I thought "jesus she's the new Judy Garland" but hey that's another thread...