I Remember When I First Got Bummed..

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I've always thought Happy Mondays' 'Squirrel and G-Man' was a dire album, and proof if proof were needed of how utterly inept a producer John Cale is. 'Pills n Thrills' was half decent (the 2nd half) and a more satisfying encapsulation of its era than The Sone Roses debut (which isn't saying much, I know).

But would anyone here agree that inbetween the two the Mondays came close to making the best damn album of the 80s (not THE best - even in its year of release there was Nation of Millions, but top 5 or 10 say)?

One reason you may think that 'Bummed' is nothing of the kind (the reason, I believe, for its relative lack of current renown) is the crime-against-music cheapo cd mix (along with Vince Clarke's WFL replacing Wrote For Luck on some versions). So unless it's undergone a recent remastering which I'm not aware of, all criticism should be based on having heard either vinyl or cassette copies.

― scott, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

John Cale's an inept producer? Proof of him being a perfectly able -- great, even -- producer include Vintage Violence, Goya Dress' Rooms, the Stooges' first record, and Nico's Desert Shore. (Patti Smith doesn't count. Ever.) Haven't heard that Happy Mondays record, though; perhaps that was just a misstep???

― Andy, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes (please)! Except it's disfigured by "Lazyitis", just like UK pop is disfigured by Beatle-worship in general.

― tarden, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

both squirrel and g-man and, even more so, bummed are among the best albums this country has produced. i never thought one way or the other about cales production on squirrel and g-man, but hannetts production on bummed is an integral part of the sound...

― gareth, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It SHOULD be good, but just isn't, WFL (the 'real' version) apart. I put it down to Martin Hannett having a bad month at the office. Maybe he couldn't obtain the necessary 'refreshments' while holed-up in Driffield, where Bummed was recorded. Whilst he was generally brilliant, some of his productions just don't quite work, and I think Bummed is the archetype. It sounds like he went for a wall-of-sound effect, but there's just no space in the production for details to surface through the fog. No doubt the Mondays didn't exactly have a clear vision about what they wanted to achieve either. It's a shame because there's a good album in there somewhere.

I have only owned the vinyl version, and I didn't know that they'd substituted the Vince Clark WFL on some versions. That's criminal! Still, the WFL single with Vince Clark's mix on one side and the 'Think about the Future' version (Oakenfold?) on the other side is very good.

"Squirrel and G-Man..." is rather splendid in a thug-funk-ish kind of way. An album with kebab stains on its trousers.

― Dr. C, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the thing is, i actually prefer the mixes of WFL to the original Wrote For Luck, which i think sounds totally out of place on Bummed. When it comes to Bummed, its really the extraordinary first side that makes it so great (although the second side has Brain Dead and Lazyits which are just as good too).

i like the murky yet spacial production of bummed, reminds me a little of some stuff hannett did with john cooper clarke circa '80.

as for replacing the track, this also happened to squirrel and g-man, when the so-so Desmond was later replaced with 24 Hr Party People, one of the few Mondays mis-steps...

― gareth, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree with gareth that although it's a foggy production there's space in the mix as well - it's a fog full of swirls and echoes and things drifting in and out of focus, not a fog which simply damps down the sound.

― scott, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wasn't "Desmond" dropped from "Squirrel...." because it included some Beatles lyrics or melody which was uncredited or uncleared?

The best Happy Mondays record by far is the "Freaky Dancin'" 12- inch, 'cos it contains "The Egg (Mix)" which is unreal - as if Can were born and bred in Salford.

― Dr. C, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

two years pass...

Tell me more about John Cooper Clark.

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

He went on adventures with the Sugar Puffs monster

― Michael B, Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

And here was I thinking this was a Sp00ner thread...

It always amazes me how *actual* Happy Mondays albums invariably disappoint me. My favourite thing they ever did was the Madchester EP. Which wasn't even them at all, it was all those wonderful producers...

― kate (kate), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

the first side could be the best first side of an album ever. the 2nd is merely great

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

And here was I thinking this was a Sp00ner thread...

ditto, i giggled like a schoolgirl

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Discovered this thread while listening to this album. Gareth's OTM. Wrote for Luck drags down side two--goes on far too long. Maybe I've just heard it too much. I also think very highly of side one of Pills.

― rw, Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

And what's the story behind them getting John Cale as producer? Hannett and Oakenfold I can understand. Why Cale?

― rw, Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

they liked the velvets and some of his production work on other recs. but it is strange, i know.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Am I going to have to start a separate thread for JCC?

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 17 July 2003 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i like the stuff that Bernard Sumner produced. funky.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 17 July 2003 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I first got Bummed today, thanks to a mysterious benefactor.

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 26 July 2003 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Mary, you should have just used a lower case b and been done with it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 27 July 2003 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

i am going to mp3 mycopy of happy mondays live at st georges hall 1989 if anyone is interested. email for details

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 27 July 2003 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

is there good audio from that G-Mex concert (the video one)?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Sunday, 27 July 2003 01:49 (twenty-one years ago)

When I saw the title of this thread I thought it should've really been in ILX with a warning about not opening it at work. I was mistaken of course.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Sunday, 27 July 2003 06:09 (twenty-one years ago)

hmm, i forgot about that, i have that video, i might try and mp3 that to audio too. the bradford st georges hall november 1989 is probably better soundwise, i think, found it as a vinyl bootleg once (it has the most amazing cover which i will scan in at same time)

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 27 July 2003 09:27 (twenty-one years ago)

sounds good gareth, and i'll give it a good home

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 27 July 2003 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

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