Eno and Byrne MY LIFE with the bush of GHOSTS. c or d?

Having read that, I want to hear the record again. It never did much for me.

BUT...purely on a musical level, while I find the production kind of chattery, it's not without some real charms — largely those in the electronic vein. And those rhythm guitars, even. I also kind of enjoy how the first side is the neo-rap side, with all the radio hosts/evangelists/etc., and the second is the more song-oriented side, with the mountain singers and what not — that one also has some remarkable electro-textures.

And though the techniques and so forth are definitely similar to those of Czukay's Movies, it's seems to me that the results were pretty far apart — Holger was really going for something else, I think. Oh, and my girlfriend really dug "Regiment" this morning.

Anybody got Tom's Papercuts piece on it?

xxxpost

'palm wine drinkard' IS
better than 'my life' but still
both are crucial yo

I think it's (Nuno) a tad more "authentic" (doesn't really play into my enjoyment, honestly) and (more importantly) is quite a bit more creepier because the vocals are all cut up into breathy whispers and tiny phonemic constructions.

"Bush of Ghosts" always struck me as the worst sort of colonialist appropriation: two privileged Westerners gleefully tearing music of the "other" from its social context and just diddling with it (because they're privileged; because they can), reducing the cinders to nothing more than funny sounds and trippy noises. Now they may claim this to be a stroke of postmodern genius, but, truly, what meaning is there in any of the tracks? What do they ultimately communicate? If anything, each piece on the record only trivializes the source material, as in "see how impenetrably exotic and weird this stuff is?! – Funny third world chanting! Bizarro radio preachers! The umba-mumba religious songs of the savages!"

And if you think this doesn’t entail serious implications, just why do you think "Qu'ran" was hastily withdrawn from the LP? Some people were definitely bothered by (and vehemently objected to) the duo's appalling disregard for the meaning/depth of their sources. I remember Eno's response to this was along the lines of: 1) he didn't know that what he had done with this material would possibly be a source of major contention to someone, and, well, 2) isn’t that a telling statement? The great western boffin and dilettante didn’t do his homework (who cares what the “other’ thinks; “you mean their weird chanting actually means something to them?”), demonstrating that the material never ,meant anything more to him than an exotic texture of weird sounds to be used and altered. So Eno grumbled and caved into public pressure (or simply was forced to go along with what the record company had already decided to do). The rub is this: did he ever once think about the fact that perhaps the performers he hijacked would grumble about being on his record. Did he ask them? Was it ever in his mind that these people might possibly have opinions, or were even capable of them? And, if so, would they even count? Apparently not.

Byrne and Eno – whatever their intentions may have been – and I don’t believe they are/were consciously imperialist or trying to offend anyone, but, hey!, it's results that count, and ignorance is no excuse – can only but reduce their sources. "Bush of Ghosts" comes off as a tedious (and, let's face it – unintentionally offensive) exercise in how hip Byrne and Eno think they are – nothing more, nothing less. It’s as shallow as – and, really, not too different philosophically and aesthetically from 1950s “exotica” records by Les Baxter or Martin Denny (although those two composers made better records than Byrne and Eno, who replace the winsome naiveté of Baxter and Denny with a grating, cynical hipper-than-thou schtick). The individual tracks on the LP state nothing beyond the "exotic" textures weaved by two self-appointed hipsters: far out sounds from far out alien cultures set to (then) trendy funky beats and blasts of noise.

Holger Czukay, I think, achieved quite the opposite. If Byrne and Eno rendered everything they touched into pure nothingness (with disturbing imperialist implications), Czukay seemed first and foremost obsessed with depth, content, context, and – above all – great respect for his source material: 180 degrees away from Byrne and Eno's hipster sonic wallpaper jive. "Movies" revels in difference and the creation of new meanings: it’s a veritable wonderland of multiplicity and possibilities, pointing out oppositions, juxtapositions, tensions, and - yes – harmony. “Persian Love”, the piece from “Movies”that (superficially) most resembles anything from “Bush of Ghosts” achieves a hauntingly beautiful harmony between the diametrically opposite Iranian singing and the sugarplum Teutonic fairytale Muzik Czukay merged it with. What’s important here, I think, is this: the “western” music in this piece is not privileged, nor is the Persian singing “reduced” or trivialized. Ergo, many questions come to the fore as it plays: difference, boundaries – “boundary” in the utmost Deleuzian sense: the AND that is always between the two, the only place at which true multiplicity is found. Unfortunately, you will find none of this happening on any of the “Bush of Ghosts” pieces, which seem (consciously or not) designed to communicate absolutely nothing. All possibility is squashed, all context and content is bled,; everything is subordinate to Byrne and Eno’s shallow textures and damn the meaning (and consequence).

I recall a contemporary review of “My Life in the Bush of Ghosts” that took the duo to task over this issue (was it in Trouser Press perhaps?), expressing mild outrage at their nerve and irresponsibility; asking the pertinent question of how Byrne and Eno might feel about the prospect of any of the performers they appropriated (and, incidentally, didn't pay) taking Eno and Talking Heads records and diddling about with those (and not pay them either). More to the point, Byrne and Eno sat happily atop the cultural hierarchy and thus felt entitled (and were enabled) to appropriate. Can’t say the same for those who were appropriated into “My Life in the Bush of Ghosts”. Not a two way street, is it?

Um, so what? There's nothing wrong with totally de-contextualizing your source material and using it strictly for its aural properties. I mean shit, it's just music, not a political manifesto.
And if (and that's a big if) Eno/Byrne were offended by someone doing the same to them, then I'd say that they need to put their ego in check and get over it.

Now what about that don't you understand?

Yours truly,

Shakey Mo, I don't think the argument is about permission and legalities (I'm not in total agreement with the Trouser Press - if that's what it was - reviewer on that score). It's about what one does with the sources and what emerges, which is precisely why I focused on the difference between Czukay's appropriation (I don't know if he paid his sources either) and Byrne/Eno's.

oops: an example from downunder: a photograph or image or an aboriginal person who has died is extremely distressing for relatives or those that knew said person. you use it, you hurt and insultpeople

'The Islamic Council of Great Britain had approached the record company with a complaint about the use of the "found" material [a ritual chanting of the Holy Koran. Actually, I'm surprised that anyone got permission to even tape it in the first place]; There are some expressions of Islam in which *all* music is considered "haram" [I think that's the Arabic term, anyway] - or against the teachings of the Koran. There is an argument about whether or not Mohammed (pbuh) stated that "music" for use in certain Islamic festivals or special occasions *is* allowable, but that's for folks who know the Surahs better than I.

At any rate, the Islamic Council voiced its strong disapproval of having the original source material used in the way it was used [in some ways, the objection is really quite similar to that raised by Kathryn Kuhlman's estate when they wanted her sermon on Lot and the angels removed from what finally became "The Jezebel Spirit"], and in the days of watching the Fatwahs [pronouncements of death] fly back and forth, Eno and his pals deemed to exclude it. "Very Very Hungry" was added instead. However, my copy of it includes both, so some other judgements must have been made later [I think that my copy is a domestic one, so perhaps that's why]. {The track could for many years be found on the US releases of the cd.}'

http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/brian_eno/interviews/sound81a.html

Q: How do you feel about the criticism that all this taking black music and adding white boy quasi-intellectual lyrical concepts to it is imperialist, that is, the critics' implication is that you're saying the music isn't 'intelligent' enough until you improve upon it, and that therefore what you do is patronising to black culture?

A: ''It's the kind of criticism that always happens if you transgress any of those boundaries . . . The critics really think that white people ought to play white music and black people ought to play with blacks . . . In my case it's not any kind of intellectual decision, it's a feeling in my own music that I'm moving in a certain direction and realising that here's a group of people who've moved much further and deciding I'll learn from them, consciously use some of their devices. It arrives from a kind of humility rather than a kind of arrogance . . . I regard myself as a student . . . I'm very humble about my understanding of African music, it's a vastly more complicated and rich area than I had dreamed of. I'd say that anything I'm doing is simply my misunderstanding of black music. [my emphasis]''

I don't know -- that seems to be a pretty honest and defensible take on the whole issue.

http://www.furious.com/perfect/charleshayward.html

PSF: With this talk about localizing music, are you also concerned with the globalization of knowledge and music and how that might affect people in different cultures?

There's this global oppression thing where all 'world music' means is music that's no longer from the place of one's origin.  What was a mbira (thumb piano) part is now a DX7 (keyboard) part and the tuning's slightly different.  The tuning actually contains the whole paradigm: the minute you change that, you change the music completely.  You've changed it to Yamaha music and it's not longer mbira music from Africa.  We've said that we've just moved it along but we've actually killed it.  This is not a way of bringing us together- it's a way of making us not who we are.

PSF: It's a way of trying to make everyone the same.

Exactly.

"anything I'm doing is simply my misunderstanding of black music"

So maybe that's honest and defensible as you say, but does that make the album good?

I don't know -- that seems to be a pretty honest and defensible take on the whole issue."

So is Pat Boone now ripe for rehabilitation?

As I understood it, Pat Boone thought he was making something he wasn't (that is, rock and roll as opposed to a cheap imitation). I think it's pretty clear from the result and that interview that Eno was never trying to make "real" African music.

Who would've thought? Brian Eno = the postmodern Pat Boone. Hahaha!

Besides, I was hoping to discuss the record based on its musical merits alone, without getting into all this cultural baggage stuff again. As for your accusation that Eno's productions have no power or depth, while I'll acknowledge that his Talking Heads-era productions are a little clickety-clackety (likely due to the treatments he was running all the instruments through), I never really thought, say, The Joshua Tree was particularly thin.

Not familiar with the U2 production. To be fair, anemic sonics were quite the trend in the late 70s/early 80s, and Eno was certainly not the only one at the time to make such weak-sounding records.

Well duh. I personally think it's quite silly to take offense to anything Eno/Byrne did on this record. However, if someone did take similar offense to something I had done, then I would apologize and attempt to rectify the situation according to the offendees' wishes. (IOW, I wouldn't just tell them to get over themselves, but I'd most likely be thinking that. And that's why I said such on this board, because it's just me airing my thoughts without having to worry about people's feelings as I normally would)

Would you object to Joe Schmo fiddling with "sacred" source material in his basement? Or does it only become objectionable once the results of the fiddling are widely distributed? The case against sampling comes down to a case against unrestrained capitalism.

"An even bolder example of the African influence is My Life in the Bush of Ghosts, an LP recorded by David Byrne and Brian Eno that may never be issued in its ideal form...Indeed, one of these voices, that of evangelist Kathryn Kuhlman, threw the entire project into legal limbo with a threat to sue unless it was removed. Sire has indicated that the disc will probably be remixed, but no release date has been set. Which is too bad, because My Life in the Bush of Ghosts enhances the aesthetic of Remain in Light, and at least one of its selections, "Shaking with My Voice," is as strange and thrilling a piece of music as either Byrne or Eno has ever made."

Does anyone know this? Was it what became "The Jezebel Spirit"? Is it on slsk?

http://www.nervenet.info/_bdisc/beepddicog198olkdgtye76543bngdy/HT_FILES/html/63424.htm

Terrible dubbed-from-concertape-cassette sound, but it's got the original Kuhlmann vocal in front of a very different 'jezebel spirit' -- I like the final version better but this is good too. There are also three or four excellent instrumental jams that never turned up on the final album in any form.

Oh, and there's also this, which explains some of this, I suppose: http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/brian_eno/enofaqm.html

"I think my synth solo on 'Regiment' is possibly the best I've ever played. People think it's a Fripp guitar rip-off. It really is me on synthesizer. In fact I remember Fripp once saying something like I was the best guitar player he'd heard, and I didn't even play guitar."

(some non-musician)

Anyway, isn't Fripp credited for arranging that track?

This album is completely and totally amazing. I never really thought I'd like it for some reason, just heard scraps of it here and there. What a revelation!

New collaboration on the way!!!

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/17/david-byrne-and-bria.html

Boing!!

planning to play at least 40 percent old Talking Heads material ????

PSF: With this talk about localizing music, are you also concerned with the globalization of knowledge and music and how that might affect people in different cultures?

There's this global oppression thing where all 'world music' means is music that's no longer from the place of one's origin. What was a mbira (thumb piano) part is now a DX7 (keyboard) part and the tuning's slightly different. The tuning actually contains the whole paradigm: the minute you change that, you change the music completely. You've changed it to Yamaha music and it's not longer mbira music from Africa. We've said that we've just moved it along but we've actually killed it. This is not a way of bringing us together- it's a way of making us not who we are.

PSF: It's a way of trying to make everyone the same.

This isn't actually true. One of the most groundbreaking features of the DX7 was that it included a ton of non-western tunings *and* the ability to create your own microtonal scales.

What's funny is that Eno was one of the few people to take advantage of this.

This must also stand as Eno's first proper tour as well.

stoked

this is such meandering, half-formed garbage. one of the biggest disappointments i've had from hearing about an album for a long time and then finally listening to it (first heard it a few years back, but just came up on my ipod and reasserted its garbageosity).

i totally disagree

but then i think one of our earliest ilx exchanges was an argument where u thought rza's next level genius was bcuz his sample chopping ws 'complex' so

A real masterpiece,still great

It's not garbage but it IS dull.

can't believe anyone would think this album is dull but maybe if you only heard it recently, it might not live up to expectations, maybe? the new eno/byrne is the dull one. can't even make it all the way through that one.

I've owned it for twenty years. The Catherine Wheel is more fully realized.

but then i think one of our earliest ilx exchanges was an argument where u thought rza's next level genius was bcuz his sample chopping ws 'complex' so

yeah wow that just totally shows we have incompatible worldviews...

I'm a big fan of both these dudes and yeah, this album is an 'interesting' but not actually fun to listen to

Wow, I think it's huge fun! (Alfred's probably right about The Catherine Wheel though.)

i think it's totally fun. and never boring -- i'm always hearing new things ...

this album is totally fun -- & has aged far better imo than a lot of the eno stuff around then

i mean doesnt this shit fit in way better w/ current balearic/nudisco/DISCOURSE ABOUT WORLD MUSIC-postMIA argument trends than, i dont know, another green world?

doesn't something that is like some other stuff fit in better w/it than something that isn't like that stuff? yes.

um swift i'm talking about how it doesnt sound dated, so i'm referencing current trends -- thats hardly the same as saying 'x is like y ergo it fits in with y!!'

I don't mean to come in with an obvious point Granny D but this album sounds so great while high iirc - like, omg great

Well, this is crazy: an article based on a Zoom call beteeen Eno, Byrne and Dunya Younes (and her daughter), who was the “Lebanese Mountain Singer” featured on Bush of Ghosts. The article describes the unsurprisingly circuitous road to getting her appropriately credited and compensated.

That got some discussion here:
Eno/Byrne's My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts Reissued?