Dubya And Pop

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Marilyn Manson, the silly boy, endorsed George W Bush on the grounds that a Bush presidency would lead to more interesting (read: confrontational) rock music becoming popular, as per the example of the Bush Sr. administration presiding over the grunge explosion. But is Manson right? Is there a place for political pop anymore, and will the next few years see a revival of same?

Tom, Sunday, 17 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"I'm sure glad the government had a really stupid drug policy during the eighties because without crack annihilating the inner cities, hip-hop just wouldn't have been quite so titillating. Hey, what's a body count and a fascistic police force between us music lovers?"

Fuck all that "heightening-the-contradictions" bullshit. What MM so airily accepts in that premise is that Americans will unwillingly suffer from the consequences of a Bush Jr. presidency and that this ultimately a Good Thing: people die so that art may live. It's a concept so dehumanizing that nowadays not even the most rabid Christian Right Washington insider would voice anything similar.

There have always been the somewhat belabored connections between rock & roll and the repressive fifties; the Kennedy assasination and the Beatles invasion; Vietnam and "the sixties"; punk rock and the collapse of Britain's liberal consensus; Bush's war and the year punk broke eggs rather than just sucking them. But much of this is lazy armchair theorizing. (Kennedy-Beatles? Please.) Good times also prompt confrontational pop as well: it's perhaps more accurate to say that what really set the stage for rock & roll and its unkempt and multi-racial racket wasn't McCarthy or the A-bomb so much as a post-war boom economy that put money into the pockets of teenagers and heightened the expectations of an American black underclass. And in the post-boom seventies, what we Americans got wasn't rage and fear (aside from the pockets of weirdness in Cleveland, LA and NY and -- O.K., big exception -- the relatively brief post-There's A Riot Goin' On moment in black music) but a top 40 of such jaw-dropping banality that it'll bewilder and delight ironized pseudo-bohos like myself for decades to come.

If Dubya fucks up...excuse me, I mean if Dubya's handlers fuck up and actually prompts a confrontational pop moment, I hope it takes a very different form from the Mountain Dew commercial we've been living in the last half-decade. Maybe we'll finally get the terrorist-chic boy-band you hoped for in alt.music.alternative, oh those many years ago.

Michael Daddino, Sunday, 17 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And, likewise, the Beatles became what they more far more because of the youth spending power that came about in the Macmillan era, rather than some supposed reaction against it. Bollocks, of course; without the late 50s boom British youth would never have had the (comparative) affluence that made the 60s "explosion" possible.

Robin Carmody, Sunday, 17 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That should read "the Beatles became what they were".

Robin Carmody, Sunday, 17 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't think that will happen because Bush is too much of a (cheating) idiot.

The next four years, you won't see confrontation because of a US Senate divided 50/50 so he can't pass much laws.

What you'll see is four years of overseas blunders (he's only ever been overseas twice - both times to Mexico).....and maybe someone might release a novelty single in America about a blunder.

Phil Paterson, Sunday, 17 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The connection between politicized times and pop direction seems incontrovertable. However, the direction of pop does not always equal the innovation of pop (the era that begat the Mekons also begat Sham 69) and the Bush presidency does not equal politicized times.

Sterling Clover, Sunday, 17 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If you believe that rock operates on ten-year cycles of brilliance and consumerisim, then we're due for a major period of innovation regardless of who is in office. Or, more accurately, there are three to four years of brilliance followed by 7-years of piggybacking. Consider the two well documented cases of 1978- 1982 as the first death of big rock and the birth of punk and New Wave; then 1989-1993 -- Nirvana, the Pixies (and the PMRC and Zappa and Dee Snyder in front of the Senate) and the re-invention of punk as grunge was the death of the hairbands. If you follow it back to the period of 1967-1971 (Johnson [whose military antics read as Republican] and Nixon) and further to 1955-1959 (Eisenhower), then it seems that the periods of revival are just not-just conicidentally linked to the election of Republicans to the White House. The more harsh the reax to rock, the harder it seems to come out.

Jimmy Mod, Monday, 18 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

On the other hand, a Dem presidency would have placed Tipper "Media is for Monsters" Gore in the first lady spot. Which would have created a reaction all its own.

Sterling Clover, Monday, 18 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

...Which just adds to the fact that there were no real differences between GWB and Al.

J. Mod, Tuesday, 19 December 2000 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

four months pass...
I think that we may now be in a position to say that that is not quite true.

the pinefox, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

We are indeed. Shame on the smug ultra-lefties who insisted that Bush and Gore were indistinguishable.

However, and contrary to similarly smug liberal press myth, there is a huge difference in the west of England between New Labour (the Basingstokisation of the countryside) and the Lib Dems (past-into- future distilled to perfection). So fuck Billy Bragg.

Robin Carmody, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three years pass...
well?

Sympatico (shmuel), Saturday, 30 October 2004 22:51 (twenty years ago)

We got "Mosh". The world got "fucked".

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 30 October 2004 23:19 (twenty years ago)

Bush presidency does not equal politicized times.

Ha! If only...

Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 31 October 2004 01:08 (twenty years ago)

"What you'll see is four years of overseas blunders (he's only ever been overseas twice - both times to Mexico).....and maybe someone might release a novelty single in America about a blunder."

Hmmmm.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Monday, 1 November 2004 04:16 (twenty years ago)

four years of overseas blunders (

And with this, we are happy to declare the polls for World's Most Tragicomic Understatement Ever officially closed. Thank you to all contenders.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Monday, 1 November 2004 04:40 (twenty years ago)

I have yet to hear a single good protest or even vaguely political song about the Bush years, and I've heard dozens of godawful ones.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 1 November 2004 04:51 (twenty years ago)

Dr. Ring Ding!!!

C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Monday, 1 November 2004 05:25 (twenty years ago)

this is what democracy sounds like

dave q, Monday, 1 November 2004 05:46 (twenty years ago)

Hmmmm.

-- Forksclovetofu

Well, as I said on the ILE thread that indirectly revived this -- IT PRESAGES "GEORGE W. PUSSY"!!

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 1 November 2004 06:45 (twenty years ago)

Hence my hmmm.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Monday, 1 November 2004 07:09 (twenty years ago)

Dr. Ring Ding, Mr. Lif, Sage Francis, David Banner have all written passable GW critiques.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 1 November 2004 07:25 (twenty years ago)

that should read passable at worst

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 1 November 2004 07:25 (twenty years ago)

four years of overseas blunders (

And with this, we are happy to declare the polls for World's Most Tragicomic Understatement Ever officially closed. Thank you to all contenders.

Haha no kidding

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 1 November 2004 07:25 (twenty years ago)

ITS LIKE LOOKING BACK IN TIME

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 1 November 2004 07:27 (twenty years ago)

I wish this thread had gotten revived more often during the past four years.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 1 November 2004 12:39 (twenty years ago)


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