Also were they clever or radical? What did their ultra femininity/ultra masculinity mean? The first words on their first album are something pre-verbal and then: 'yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah- no no no no no no no no.' What of this? Did they promise something that wasn't acted upon, exchanged for the easier to contain cynicism of punk?
― Maryann, Saturday, 9 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― anthony, Saturday, 9 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Stevie Nixed, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― tarden, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― Patrick, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Cooper invented Glam *and* Goth (which is pretty good going), but his version of genderfuck was way timid (loud panto, basically), compared to the Dolls (who knew how to sew and cut cloth). "School's Out" is a way better *popsong* than the NYDs ever wrote: and both the Dolls LPs are so MUFFLED (but I know I turned Muddy Production-Presentation into a positive complication in re Pistols/Bollocks arrival and listener-inhabitation...).
The critics crack is just evasive: Tarden finding a way to avoid having to take responsibility for his own opinions.
― mark s, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― duane zarakov, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― duane, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Johnny Thunders was the one who went on to make great music after the New York Dolls, in my opinion.
The image question; perhaps that's misguided - that wasn't what PREVENTED them from becoming popular, if anything, that was their selling point. You could argue that the NYD image was really scary because it didn't seem calculated enough - unlike Alice Cooper's - but then early Prince, same, still he went on to be acceptable.
― Maryann, Sunday, 10 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
except i wish they were recorded a bit better. where was mutt lange back then?
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 05:51 (twenty-one years ago)
and please god someone tell me why their first record always calls to mind "the pirates of penzance"!
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 05:58 (twenty-one years ago)
johansen's entire performance on the first album is totally classic, especially his shangri-las rip on "looking for a kiss," but am i the only person who doesn't see what the big deal is about johnny thunders?
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)
johnny thunders is like one of keith richard's musical tics made flesh.
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:12 (twenty-one years ago)
mark s is wrong: Black Sabbath invented goth! Or maybe it was Black Widow. I've never heard them though, so I'll say it was the Sabs.
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:15 (twenty-one years ago)
i really don't like his voice. johansen adds so much to the dolls i don't know why they bothered. it;s like that ccr album where the other people sing. what's the point?
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:18 (twenty-one years ago)
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:19 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)
PS Alice Cooper mostly deserves credit/blame for turning rock concerts into a spectacle sport, although "Killer," "School's Out" and "Billion Dollar Babies" was as great a triple-crown run as the Replacements' "Let It Be," "Tim" and "Pleased To Meet Me."
― Chris Clark (Chris Clark), Friday, 13 June 2003 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)
btw, Alice Cooper and the Dolls are two of my favorite bands, I'm surprised I didn't notice this thread the first time around. And yeah Cooper had the better singles, but I could never ever choose between the two.
― Sean (Sean), Friday, 13 June 2003 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― duane, Friday, 13 June 2003 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)
― duane, Friday, 13 June 2003 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 13 June 2003 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)
(which guy in the clash?)
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 14 June 2003 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 14 June 2003 05:37 (twenty-one years ago)
― scott seward, Saturday, 14 June 2003 05:45 (twenty-one years ago)
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 14 June 2003 06:43 (twenty-one years ago)
― duane, Saturday, 14 June 2003 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)
(haha Pat Benatar = OK by me)
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 15 June 2003 04:56 (twenty-one years ago)
― Francis Watlington, Sunday, 15 June 2003 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:41 (twenty-one years ago)
― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:45 (twenty-one years ago)
― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― David Allen, Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:47 (twenty-one years ago)
― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:51 (twenty-one years ago)
Thrilled that DavJoh finally made some money, although it figures it would come from extending "Stranded in the Jungle" into a full act.
>i don't think joe strummer played much gtr on their records tho
What?!? All that Telecaster dub-scratching/powerchord mania is him! Jones handled the Mott the Hoople lead lines and harmonic counterpoints. Both totally classic, as was Steve Jones, who merged Ramones chainsaw with Chuck Berry boogie (well, so did Eddie and the Hot Rods) to make the Pistols (dare I say it?) swing!
― Chris Clark (Chris Clark), Sunday, 15 June 2003 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)
― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 15 June 2003 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)
back and to the loftback and to the loft
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 2 March 2025 22:48 (three months ago)
Usually I am suspicious of eclecticism but I am really enjoying the selection and sequencing of this show and I mean, this guy kind of invented and showed us the right way to do it.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 2 March 2025 23:15 (three months ago)
Just remembered that I had a friend in high school who was the one who introduced me to The Dolls who was a huge fan of theirs and whose mother was the original black supermodel and father was descended from the family that controlled a certain part of Memphis
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 2 March 2025 23:20 (three months ago)
alltime posting by tfs. favorited in my mind.
― "The Well-Tempered Holophonor by Philip J. Fry" (Austin), Sunday, 2 March 2025 23:25 (three months ago)
hey thanks! wfmu's glen jones did a wonderful 3-hour tribute to david this afternoon. https://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/149687
― Thus Sang Freud, Sunday, 2 March 2025 23:37 (three months ago)
He’s playing a Jonathan Richman favorite now, “The Wind,” Nolan Strong & The Diablos.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 2 March 2025 23:59 (three months ago)
On the Mansion of Fun rerun tbc
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 00:02 (three months ago)
I’m totally digging the sequencing and the fact that he’s just playing stuff he likes even if it might be sort of obvious, not trying to create some kind of hipster persona since, he had obviously already done that a few times.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 00:04 (three months ago)
Some of it reminds me of that list of Bowie’s favorite books, which some of the usual suspects attacked as being too middlebrow.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 00:05 (three months ago)
Now he is playing “Cast Your Fate to the Wind,” mention of which once set off a long FB discussion with Xgau’s nephew.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 01:31 (three months ago)
It used to be the sign-off song of one of the old WNEW-FM jocks. Dennis Elsas, I think.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 01:32 (three months ago)
Guess this is all going back to what was earlier said about The Dolls being a quintessential NYC band which goes way beyond some Lou Reed egg-cream stickball phony baloney nostalgia.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 01:38 (three months ago)
Oh there’s a rhyme: Johansen’s Mansion, do u see?
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 02:27 (three months ago)
Did the Dolls play Ringolevio?
― timellison, Monday, 3 March 2025 02:46 (three months ago)
Heh
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 02:50 (three months ago)
Something about his song selection reminds me a wee bit of Jonesy’s Jukebox.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 03:01 (three months ago)
can’t decide whether to keep listening to this or go sing a few of his songs at karaoke
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 04:02 (three months ago)
The latter
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 05:59 (three months ago)
which did you singi would do Trash, Jet Boy and ? cant decide on third
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:05 (three months ago)
Mystery Girls!
― sleeve, Monday, 3 March 2025 06:08 (three months ago)
given that yr first 2 are perfect
“Build Me Up Buttercup” and “Pills”
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:29 (three months ago)
May try for “Trash” soon
Also just found a video for “Looking for a Kiss.”
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:31 (three months ago)
A band from San Antonio called Sons of Hercules used to do an awesome version of “Who Are the Mystery Girls?”
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:33 (three months ago)
They still exist! Maybe they are still doing it
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:34 (three months ago)
He just said “Right here! In the Manse. With Johanse.”
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:47 (three months ago)
Sounds like Amalia Rodrigues right now
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 07:10 (three months ago)
Laura Nyro now
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 07:17 (three months ago)
Really enjoying listening to this but need to sleep. Maybe I will put that gigantic playlist on shuffle mode tomorrow
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 07:18 (three months ago)
We picked the kid up Sunday morning after a sleepover and were running errands, listening to the Dolls & my wife, who went through a deep Buster Poindexter phase in 80s asked to hear "Hot Hot Hot" and the moment it came on the ten y.o. was all "what is this? what is this?" and barely a minute later she was singing "hot!hot!hot!" and laughing which seems like as fitting a tribute as anything, RIP David
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 3 March 2025 14:21 (three months ago)
It's funny, because in the UK, "Hot Hot Hot" is Arrow, and nobody else.
― Mark G, Monday, 3 March 2025 14:27 (three months ago)
Listing to the big Mansion of Fun playlist now.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 15:23 (three months ago)
What with all the jump blues in there it’s making me think of Charlie Gillet’s Sound of the City
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 15:24 (three months ago)
Gillett
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 15:25 (three months ago)
Xgau Remembers
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/david-johansen-new-york-dolls-robert-christgau-1235286728/
Neither the 1973 debut New York Dolls nor its 1974 follow-up Too Much Too Soon — produced by Shadow Morton, whose sole major credit was the legendary girl group the Shangri-Las — cracked the Top 100, great albums though both are now thought to be. The finale of the follow-up summed up what Johansen would be about till the day he died — titled simply “Human Being,” its tireless refrain went simply: “Well if I’m acting like a king, that’s because/I’m a human being.” And on a personal note, I’ll add that those two lines were the title I proposed for a criticism collection that in the end was called Grown Up All Wrong. A little long, Harvard thought, and that wasn’t all.
― Okay, heteros are cutting edge this year, too. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 17:47 (three months ago)
Saw that.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 18:19 (three months ago)
that was great. I have always enjoyed xgau the most when he writes about the Dolls. I like him in fan-boy mode <3
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 19:07 (three months ago)
cant even imagine how thrilling it must have been seeing the 72 shows at the Mercer
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 19:12 (three months ago)
i love this video of Mystery Girls from Maxs Kansas City ‘73 - they’re so on it! makes me want to timetravel to see this gig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chd_JUkec8M
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 19:39 (three months ago)
man yeah. just squarely ON it
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 20:32 (three months ago)
I like him in fan-boy mode <3
There's a documentary about NYC (pre-)punk where Christgau's one of the interviewees, and the level of involvement increases palpably once he gets to talk about the Dolls instead of the Velvet Underground.
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 4 March 2025 20:47 (three months ago)
I was wondering what happened to that video, it went missing the last time I posted it myself, thanks.
― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 5 March 2025 01:26 (three months ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08MuQAC5zpw
― Who Are the Mystery URLs? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 6 March 2025 19:35 (three months ago)
Not that I needed assurance, but my listening to the Dolls and DJ again in the last few days helped me realize anew what a first-rate lyricist he was.
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 6 March 2025 19:36 (three months ago)
I was wondering what ever happened to the New York Doll Hospital on Lexington Ave between 61st/62nd Sts which inspired the band’s name… bc I remember spying the old NY Doll Hospital sign when it was still in business and suddenly realizing that’s where the name came from, and feeling the thrill of historical connection.
It’s now an establishment called 787 Unique Head Spa. And not for nothing, Unique Head strikes me as a good band name as well.
― Josefa, Friday, 7 March 2025 01:25 (three months ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH8TuI2uzvo
― Who Are the Mystery URLs? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 7 March 2025 01:26 (three months ago)
I was wondering what ever happened to the New York Doll Hospital on Lexington Ave between 61st/62nd Sts which inspired the band’s name… bc I remember spying the old NY Doll Hospital sign when it was still in business and suddenly realizing that’s where the name came from, and feeling the thrill of historical connection.It’s now an establishment called 787 Unique Head Spa. And not for nothing, Unique Head strikes me as a good band name as well.
― Who Are the Mystery URLs? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 7 March 2025 01:28 (three months ago)
I was in the laundromat one day when it occurred to me that 80 Lb. Speed Queen would be a great band name. (Speed Queen is a brand of industrial clothes dryer.)
― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Friday, 7 March 2025 01:38 (three months ago)
80 lb Speed Queen = Taylor Mead?
Sorry, I’ll see myself out
― Josefa, Friday, 7 March 2025 02:34 (three months ago)