I would argue this is by far the most punkass offensively pissing-on-ethics ad ever. Common is now officially a cockfarmer. I have no problem with somebody hawking a product, but to hawk a product like this...
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 02:05 (twenty-three years ago)
― gazuga (gazuga), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 02:30 (twenty-three years ago)
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 02:39 (twenty-three years ago)
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 02:50 (twenty-three years ago)
nonetheless, I'm still pissed off that this exists. the cult of real needed to chill out, not be raped defenselessly by Coke.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 02:53 (twenty-three years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:29 (twenty-three years ago)
― Famous Athlete, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:33 (twenty-three years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:38 (twenty-three years ago)
― Famous Athlete, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:42 (twenty-three years ago)
― Famous Athlete, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:44 (twenty-three years ago)
ick. The jaguar ad sounds pretty sick, but did the ad emphasize the lyrics only to fling a car at you in the last shot?
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:45 (twenty-three years ago)
The new tagline for Coke, now, is simply "REAL." In bold letters, too, just like that. That's what's baffling to me, not that Common might offer his endorsement for the beverage but rather that they would pitch it to people as the drink of choice for those who like their soda to be actual. It just makes no sense.
― Famous Athlete, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 04:06 (twenty-three years ago)
― jm (jtm), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 04:42 (twenty-three years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 04:43 (twenty-three years ago)
― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 05:34 (twenty-three years ago)
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 06:26 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 06:58 (twenty-three years ago)
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 11:28 (twenty-three years ago)
― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 11:38 (twenty-three years ago)
That one with the weirdly-tempoed Jay Dee beat, the Stereolab one, the Prince one and, uh...
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 14:28 (twenty-three years ago)
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:11 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:16 (twenty-three years ago)
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:17 (twenty-three years ago)
I can't think of a more appropriate hawker for such a substance than Common.
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:31 (twenty-three years ago)
Where in the lyrics of London Calling does it say you shouldn't buy a Jag? This is a genuine qn - lots of people got cross over that ad, not just because it was The Clash (which I understand - brand images clashing and all that) but because it was THAT song which always struck me as a cool-sounding apocalypse-fantasy with minimal political content.
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:35 (twenty-three years ago)
...in fact they should right songs specifically for clients and adverts ahead of time (although sticking ORANGE into a song didnt come off for BOC)
― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:39 (twenty-three years ago)
Yeah, but where in the lyrics does it suggest that you *SHOULD*? I think you have to take a step back and look at the concept of using *ANY* song by the Clash to hawk Jaguars. That's where the vulgarity creeps in.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:40 (twenty-three years ago)
― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:43 (twenty-three years ago)
The Clash had sold stuff before anyway - I dont think they have control over their back cat.
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:43 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:44 (twenty-three years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:44 (twenty-three years ago)
― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:53 (twenty-three years ago)
Jaguar's brand image is flashiness, priciness, cool; The Clash's brand image is political rock'n'roll gang - my guess is Jaguar is banking on a linkup of "flashiness"/"cool" and "rock'n'roll gang" and assuming most of the audience will forget the "political" bit.
Crass on the other hand weren't cool - they were old and ugly and difficult and so nobody is going to use them in adverts. The absolute no.1 thing you have to do if you want to avoid your image being co-opted is not be cool.
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 16:02 (twenty-three years ago)
Coke : Real :: Budweiser : True
Coke would be more "real" if there was still, um, coke in it.
― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:53 (twenty-three years ago)
I have no real problem with song use in general, but when they start to use the songs that philosophically counter the meaning of the original song... well, it makes me sick to my stomach. When i saw the coke ad, it literally brought tears to my eyes. It's a real shame.
Indeed:
"The President, he's got his warFolks don't know just what it's forNobody gives us a rhyme or reasonHave one doubt, they call it treasonWith chicken feathers all with out one nut
Goddamn it!Tryin' to make it real compared to what!"
still rings true. always will.
― david day (winslow), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:10 (twenty-three years ago)
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:16 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (twenty-three years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)
Will they listen?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:24 (twenty-three years ago)
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:25 (twenty-three years ago)
― thedore fogelsanger, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:27 (twenty-three years ago)
― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:35 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:37 (twenty-three years ago)
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:38 (twenty-three years ago)
For example, all the reactions I read after RJD2 licensed his music to Saturn were approbative: 'way to get that paper RJ'. But, of course, the general consensus on Common's Coke thing (even from diehards) is that he's completely sold out.
RJ and Common probably aren't in the same income bracket, but surely they can't be THAT far apart either. So, assuming that the whole 'starving artists got a right' argument (which would favour RJ) is a moot point in this case, is it possible that the Common's being hated on more for his presence than his participation? And not for his intrinsic alliance with Coke but for the fact that he did it in such a way that made it hard to ignore or sweep under the rug? And finally, if so, is one really better than the other?
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:54 (twenty-three years ago)
- people dont like him anyway- he is explicitly lyrically allying himself with the dubious message of the ad
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:56 (twenty-three years ago)
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:56 (twenty-three years ago)
Please make as many ads as possible so that your presence is inescapable on American television.
Sincerely, Dan
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:58 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:01 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:03 (twenty-three years ago)
Consider the Wrangler example. I mean, "fortunate son" is the title of an unauthorized W. biography!
oh, and one more thing about W. and "Compared To What"
this lyric:
"Slaughter house is a-killin' hogsTwisted children are killin' frogs"
and this anecdote:
In a May 21, 2000, New York Times' puff piece about the values Bush gained growing up in Midland, Texas, Nicholas D. Kristof quoted Bush's childhood friend Terry Throckmorton: "'We were terrible to animals,' recalled Mr. Throckmorton, laughing. A dip behind the Bush home turned into a small lake after a good rain, and thousands of frogs would come out. 'Everybody would get BB guns and shoot them,' Mr. Throckmorton said. 'Or we'd put firecrackers in the frogs and throw them and blow them up.'"
― david day (winslow), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:03 (twenty-three years ago)
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:13 (twenty-three years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:15 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:16 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:16 (twenty-three years ago)
Just for you, Ned.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:17 (twenty-three years ago)
- catharsis for the author- rallying and comforting the people who agree- surprising and alerting the people who might not yet
Use in an ad has no effect on the first, a negative effect on the second, but a potentially positive boost for the third, right?
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:18 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:19 (twenty-three years ago)
― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:19 (twenty-three years ago)
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:21 (twenty-three years ago)
Yeah hstencil it could actually.
Mark P I do think that pretty much which is why my gut reaction is that it's not worth getting upset by the use of the song. Doesn't stop me exploring why it might be worth getting upset. Also I think it's political/philosophical arguments that cant easily be summarised in song - statements of position are much easier.
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:23 (twenty-three years ago)
― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:25 (twenty-three years ago)
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:25 (twenty-three years ago)
― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:31 (twenty-three years ago)
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:31 (twenty-three years ago)
Yeah, but if you play the lead you could possibly upstage the product you're selling (although this doesn't seem to be the case with the Volkswagen ads). I'm not sure how I feel about what it means , probably because I'm not really sure what the significance of advertising is. I'm trying to figure out why I'm not terribly upset about it. This discussion is really interesting to me.
― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:44 (twenty-three years ago)
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 19:47 (twenty-three years ago)
I'm more annoyed by MTV's new non-ad campaign.
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:03 (twenty-three years ago)
I'll second that.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:28 (twenty-three years ago)
― zemko (bob), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:28 (twenty-three years ago)
Which why I watch VH1 classic during ad breaks (not that I rarely take it off that station anyhow). Cuz it's real.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:30 (twenty-three years ago)
― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:31 (twenty-three years ago)
― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:31 (twenty-three years ago)
Very.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:33 (twenty-three years ago)
― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:33 (twenty-three years ago)
Both predate this one; I think the Wyclef ad is four years old or something like that.
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:34 (twenty-three years ago)
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:39 (twenty-three years ago)
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 20:49 (twenty-three years ago)
Which then opens a number of possibilities -- coke wins[grabs marketshare], common loses[backlash]; common wins [crossover exposure], coke loses [Bill O'Reilly goes after them for promoting violence -- which is unlikely given that it's common and thus why he's a good choice for them]; both win; both lose.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:22 (twenty-three years ago)
― hstencil, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:31 (twenty-three years ago)
There was recently an article in the SF Chronicle about Fogerty and the use of "Fortunate Son". He's long since lost the rights to all his songs (thanks to Fantasy-fuckwad-owner Saul Zaentz) and he sounded incredibly bitter and depressed that the song had been sold in that way. As I recall, he even said it brought him to tears.
"Compared to What" is a FANTASTIC song, beautiful beautiful. The use of it in the ad is appalling. Les McCann's version of it at the Montreaux Festival in '73 is a barnburner.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:50 (twenty-three years ago)
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:03 (twenty-three years ago)
― zemko (bob), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:19 (twenty-three years ago)
Sterling has coined my new favorite word.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:31 (twenty-three years ago)
(and this is why clashfans are so annoyed abt london calling and jaguar: hovering just a segue away in their unconscious is the hard proof that the clash were always deep in their bones pro advert-culture not anti it)
i tried to find the lyrics to "fast cars" on the net, but they weren't anywhere: "sooner or lader y'll listen to ralph nay-dah!!"
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:55 (twenty-three years ago)
― jm (jtm), Thursday, 23 January 2003 01:06 (twenty-three years ago)
― Stuart, Tuesday, 28 January 2003 16:33 (twenty-three years ago)
― Stuart, Tuesday, 28 January 2003 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)
Irony is dead, didn't Coke get the MEMO?
And I stand by my point that the more people associate Compared To What with Coke, the less powerful the song becomes.
Chronicle's Fogerty article:http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/11/01/DD223445.DTL
great lead:"Put yourself in John Fogerty's shoes and see if you don't feel like slapping somebody."
― david day (winslow), Tuesday, 28 January 2003 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)
Now why hasn't Coke bought "Koka Kola" and "Straight to Hell"?
― Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 29 January 2003 16:11 (twenty-three years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 16:12 (twenty-three years ago)
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 17:56 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 18:03 (twenty-three years ago)
I'm having a similar reaction to the nonsensical Levi's buffalo-stampede ad.
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 18:28 (twenty-three years ago)