Weather Report - S & D

waddya mean, "version"? it's THEIR tune, for fk's sake. written by Papa Zawinul

'Black Market' and 'Mysterious Traveller' are evidently amongst their best albums; 'Heavy Weather' and 'Sweetnighter' have several good pieces each (tho' Zaw's claim to having "inveted hip-hop" with '12th Stereet Congress' on the latter is glaringly absurdish).

their first two, 'Weather Report' and 'I Sing The Body Electric' sound rather different (rawer, more unadorned improv-passages) from what was to follow

and i wouldn't dare recommend their 80s recording to anyone

Also Side B of I Sing the Body Electric is fantastic -- it's excerpts from a live show in Tokyo 1972. Though they released the full 90-minute concert on Live in Tokyo 1972, I actually much prefer the shortened version -- there are a few Miles Davis-style "jump cut" edits that I think enhance the music tremendously, make it seem wilder and more unpredictable.

The opening track of Tale Spinnin', "The Man in the Green Shirt", is one of the best things Zawinul ever wrote, but the rest of the albums tails off a little (ha ha). On the other hand, I've never been that fond of "Birdland" and -- though I've tried hard to warm up to it -- I really don't like "A Remark You Made" (all I can hear is the cheese), but the rest of Heavy Weather still sounds as fresh today as it did when I first heard it...13, 14 years ago?

After Heavy Weather things start to get really dicey. I haven't actually heard Mr. Gone in its entirety, and it might be good. The live album 8:30 starts out appealingly if you're into the high-speed cokehead side of WR, but that ebbs really fast and the rest of the album doesn't hold my interest at all. Their next one, Night Passage, I actually quite like -- it's a little overblown, but the compositions are more oblique than anything they'd done since the early days, and some of the soloing is first-class stuff. Their final album with Jaco is a second self-titled album -- don't confuse this one with the first one! It's pretty dire -- Zawinul basically took control of the whole band and devoted an album to tedious over-arranged synthesizer workouts.

I've never heard a full album after that one; there might be a jewel buried in there somewhere -- I've heard Procession might have some good bits -- but I can't say I'm optimistic. Better to spend your money on Jaco's Word of Mouth, an album which could be analogized to Pet Sounds, i.e. a heavily arranged album in which a brilliant artist backs off from many of the things he'd been associated with and produces an understated masterpiece. (It's an analogy that's even easier to make given the fact that his next album, Holiday for Pans, did indeed go unreleased, has seen numerous bootleggings, and probably was a little bonkers -- though I strongly prefer Smile to Pet Sounds, so it might be great.)

Anyway, get Mysterious Traveller, see what you think, and if you don't like the first song, skip it: I always do, and it's one of my favorites!

Any more suggestions?

Another good one is I Sing the Body Electric, which has the eerie "Forgotten Soldier" and the beautiful "Second Sunday in August".

If the greatest hits doesn't have "Nubian Sundance", then it is missing my favorite Weather Report song. That track is amazing.

....a fact that didn't escape the attention of Solex (check out "Rolex by Solex")

I must obtain posthaste, then. Thanks for the tip, howell.

I wouldn't exactly destroy anything, but the earliest couple of albums were kind of weird....

wow "black market"! i had no idea.

I think the popularity of Birdland is one of the most baffling mysteries in music. It sounds like a PhD thesis where the project was to assemble all of the most annoying sounds that could be made by musical instruments on one track.

Plus it has the most awkward groove, a bad 1970s electric swing moment, and that terrible frenzied double drumming at the end

Gawd I dislike it. It sounds like Chip Davis. There's a ridiculous Manhattan Transfer live rendition on YouTube, if you feel like feeling things.

*bow bow bow! bow bow bowBOW!*

Weather Report were really good until Jaco Pastorius came along. There, I said it.

The other night read the first chapter or so of Peter Erskine's book and it was hilarious.

Live in Tokyo, holy shit. This album never disappoints, never fails to surprise. The best thing they ever did.

I agree w Phil about Mysterious Traveler, which made the biggest and best impression on me. Also check Zawinul's s/t solo album, incl. "In A Silent Way," which he wrote. I read that it was based on memories of being a shepherd boy in the misty mountains of Austria.

"jungle book" is so good. mysterious traveler is next level

got a v cheap copy of sweetnighter, Manolete is so amazing, especially the shift in groove about halfway through - I feel like it has an atmosphere so much of that early Mo Wax stuff was reaching for

God, I love Sweetnighter. 125th Street Congress is immense.

not only is it immense, it invented hip hop! lol

nah it was Acker Bilk who invented hip hop! ace album is this.

I find that some of the synth sounds on the later recs are now horribly dated.
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, January 27, 2003 1:05 PM (seventeen years ago)

True re synth sounds.'Mr Gone' is the only record I've ever acquired where I was unable to get beyond the first five seconds. I like some of the bubblegum shit from their Cheyne-Stokes period tho
― dave q, Monday, January 27, 2003 1:26 PM (seventeen years ago)

*whispers* I actually kinda love Mr. Gone.

But a good friend of mine put it best when he said there was a certain point where Zawinul seemed addicted to the most scrotal synth sounds he could find.

the start of the first track on mr gone rocks and the synth sounds are great

lol at "scrotal synth sounds"

Gave 'Live in Tokyo' a fairly attentive listen yesterday. Rhythm section is definitely playing a different grove than what is getting ready to come. It's got quite a bit of parts on the record kind of in that ambient style like 'In A Silent Way' or 'Odyessey of Iska'

I don't know that the standup with a fuzz sounds all that hot, which is what I kinda think it is. It is not a bad recording but the mix is a bit dark sounding.

I bought Domino Theory when it came out. Looking back, I am not sure how such a group of supremely talented musicians could make such a pedestrian album.

Josef 'Joe' Erich Zawinul - keyboards and synthesizers
Wayne Shorter - saxophones
Omar Hakim - drums
Victor Bailey - bass
José Rossy - percussion

I kinda think some of those later Weather Report records were more pieced together in a studio compared to a jazz group playing a tune. They got an assembled and overdubbed feel like a lot of rock records. Not every track, but some are more of creating a piece. Not that it is a bad thing.

I've come to like the second self titled Weather Report a bit more on a few more listens.

The later stuff is still worth hearing, somewhat. Its like those later Mahavishnu records, taken on their own they are fairly interesting but compared to the atom bomb of the original group, hard to compare.

god early weather report is just the greatest

Sweetnighter is the only record of theirs that has clicked with me so far. I'm warming to the first two now though.

I picked up a bunch of their albums at a yard sale years ago, but really never listen to them, or fusion in general. Since Shorter's passing I should dig them out and reevaluate.

The first two albums and Live in Tokyo are incredible, essential records. After that there are moments of inspired genius, but also a lot of questionable twists and fillers. Probably one of the best fusion bands with the most frustrating catalogs.

There’s a CD box with all the pre-Jaco albums, which is all I need. Not a Pastorius fan AT ALL.

I always thought "Black Market" felt like the link between Genesis and Brand X.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7XwwcvjUFg

(Weird, that's the track "Cannonball")

I think Live in Tokyo and Mysterious Traveller are their two great albums, the ones I go back to, but I've got mixed feelings about the rest. Most of their albums have some good, even great tracks, but their music grew less interesting as time went on. In the beginning they really did sound otherworldly and likely seemed like a new, promising direction in jazz, especially when they were still developing. I want to say Mysterious Traveller is the pinnacle of this development, but also the turning point because from that point on they transformed into a pop-jazz group, or at least my idea of a respectable pop-jazz group for that time. Not nearly as adventurous or interesting as I would have liked, but they did record some tuneful and engaging stuff.

Outside of the two albums I mentioned, they may be best served by a good compilation. The Best of Weather Report is a pretty good overview, but it still misses some great stuff. For starters, nothing from their first two albums: at minimum, "Orange Lady" and "The Moors" should have been included, better than anything they did in their later years. But "Boogie Boogie Waltz" is definitely one of their best, and post-Mysterious Traveller, I'd probably put together "Man in the Green Shirt," "Lusitanos," "Freezing Fire," "Black Market," "Cannon Ball," "Elegant People," "Birdland," "A Remark You Made," "Teen Town," "The Elders" and "Night Passage."

*Boogie Woogie Waltz

don’t miss the zawinul self-titled from 1971, that’s probably mentioned somewhere in this thread

Absolutely, that is a great album. Kind of like a pre-Weather Report album where it's virtually their first album but with a few different players.

Is that the one with Silent Way on it?

Correct, this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawinul_(album)

Weird, that link didn't work.

Try this one

love that Zawinul

Weather Report just never clicked for me, but I love Eric Gravatt and Alphonso Mouzon, and I'll have to give the early stuff another try.

(spoiler for the Wayne Shorter thread, I'm sorry but I just don't love the soprano side)

Odyssey of Iska by Shorter and Miroslav Vitouš’ Purple are a couple of other steps to that early Weather Report sound.

xp Weather Report really does feel like Zawinul's group. I was under the vague impression that Shorter was supposed to be a co-leader, but as the years went on, he seemed to have less of a presence than the others. When I was reminiscing over Shorter records the two last weeks, I didn't bother to put on any of Weather Report's - the Jazz Messengers, the Miles Davis Quintet and his own (as well as a trip to see Sound Prints at the Village Vanguard), but that was it. I felt like those were the best display of what he gave.

*the last two weeks

I think Jaco and the pop success of Birdland probably put the squeeze on room for Shorter tunes in later Weather Report.

Mysterious Traveler is really good Shorter WR song.

Zawinul really expanded the pallet of keyboard sounds too and he seemed to state it opened him up as a composer, as he could do symphonic pieces himself.

cosigning zawinul rec for early weather report fans. damn fine record.

when i am referring to early weather report i am mainly concentrating on sweetnighter and mysterious traveller by which point they had already incorporated funk rhythms and were making music pretty distinct from the "formation of the cosmos" stuff on the s/t and the extremely hard embryonic fusion workouts on live in tokyo but frankly i adore all of this stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_msF73mVGG0

i don't disagree with the assertion that this was mostly zawinul's band, but shorter's songs are usually my favorites, consider this absolutely sideways funk jam + "mysterious traveller" and "blackthorn rose" and "eurydice" and etc.

i had never heard i sing the body electric in full before yesterday and it was wild to queue up "the moors" and be like "... i recognize that guitar playing" and turns out it's fuckin ralph towner!

Yeah, that's exactly the WR I love - fusion that's heavy on the funk and the weird noise fuckery. One of the tracks I love on Sweetnighter, I forget which one, has a section where the bass and the drums come in and totally change the direction of the track, and it sounds like it fell off Headz or something.

I’ve been curious about albums by other WR members; I know Shorter’s work, that Zawinul LP, Vitous’ early work (as well as more recent ECM releases, Jaco’s debut…who else has some jams? Mouzon? Johnson?

Alphonse Mouzon has some *amazing* mid 70s albums.

Here for the *Sweetnighter* love. Such a great album. Also the Zawinul love - his first album is all time. *The Rise & Fall of the Third Stream* is interesting and worth a listen as well. I love how Zawinul in his mid-to-late 30s for those albums, but looks in his 50s. Tough life, jazz.

I might rank Miroslav Vitous' *Infinite Search* up there with *Sweetnighter* and *Zawinul*; *Magical Shepherd* is great too, if a bit bonkers.

does anyone else think of those early weather reports as kind of zawinul trying to synthesize his work from his time with miles and cannonball?

(chinaski otm- shoutout to early funky joe)

(not with miles and cannonball in the same band at the same time obviously)

ok i'm getting pretty deep into the weeds here so:

tale spinnin': can't help but feel like a comedown from mysterious traveller but it's still pretty ok. several amazing songs. just doesn't feel anywhere near as cohesive or like it's taking you somewhere strange and cool as its predecessor

black market: stupid good, funky and fresh from start to finish

heavy weather: people who hate jaco are posers in the extreme, anyway obv i'd heard this before and it still whips. "a remark you made" made me cry lol

mr. gone: very funny that this was named for shorter's absence from the studio. first side is great! murky and atmospheric and pretty like all the best weather report stuff but with a lot of weird hyper-clarity in the recording which i assume is only going to get more emphasized as i enter the '80s. the second side is... idk, less good, kinda willfully ugly and fussy at points. amazing to hear maurice white's voice emerge from the confusion on the final track

this thread fuckin owns

“Nubian Sundance” is my all time favorite WR jam. The drums and groove on that track is amazing. From what I had read, it was really tricky to get right which is why it fell out of live use as the percussionists changed.

i like the victor bailey 1986 contractual obligation album feat. carlos santana not joking

“Nubian Sundance” is astonishing; one of those tracks I’m not even sure how they pulled it off

It is pretty much drum and bass before drum and bass.

I own several Weather Report records and never play them; it just seems I’m never in that mood. But the title track to “Mysterious Traveler” popped up on shuffle tonight and damn did it hit the spot.

I'm not the biggest Weather Report fan, but what I like, I like a lot, and Mysterious Traveller is easily my favorite album they've done. Just beautiful.

The hell with all you "Birdland" haters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1nj6Yla_Vg

I’m not sure this is where I declare my appreciation for the Manhattan Transfer - I know there’s a thread where they’re pretty universally hated - but I’d never seen that clip before and it’s amazing, if maybe the most 80s thing ever.

I actually like "Birdland" - the first three numbers on Heavy Weather are especially good. I think their studio albums went downhill after that, but every album up to and including Heavy Weather is worth revisiting.

There may be several that I find uneven, but otherwise that run of albums is never less than good. To clarify, when I say I'm not the biggest Weather Report fan, it's because there are plenty of people who will listen to them a lot more than I would and I'm more inclined to put on some other jazz artist from that era. When I do put them on, I generally like what I hear. Mysterious Traveller is simply the one album that I really love above the others.

Really enjoyed this video on the early years of WR. Andy also singles out "Mysterious Traveler" as a highlight.