Does pop music discriminate against your sex?

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A friend recently commented that today's soi-disant "western" culture seems more demarcated along gender lines than ever before; i.e. "chick flicks" and "guy sports." The marketers have studied their demographics and know what kind of novel or toothpaste we'll buy according to our sex or sexual preference. Has pop music consequently become more gender-biased or less so? Certainly we have the cliches: heavy metal is for the lads, bubblegum is for the lasses; house is homo, hip-hop is hetero, and electronica is probably asexual. What do all you wise listeners and observers of pop phenomena think?

X. Y. Zedd, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, underwwear manufacturers have discriminated against my sex for years but it's never stopped me from buying bras.

-- Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mike, you're out to get me yet, and it's not that I don't deserve it. Actually some girls I know wear boys' briefs, but really, back to the topic, please...

X. Y. Zedd, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I dont really go for such ad ploys. I mostly like things little japanese girls like, like Kogepan.

-- Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I've noticed a surge in man-bashing songs in the current "R&B" genre. And I think it all began with Destiny's Child.

Kodanshi, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Kodanshi, I don't need no scrubs.

-- Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Short literal answer: no, I don't think that pop music discriminates against my sex, if that exists.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sure, what you describe reads like an everyday "western" high school cafeteria scene where you could divide and define social groups by the music they primarily enjoy. The need of an individual to belong is craftily honed in upon by the evil Marketers, who promptly package some concoction that strokes your ego and ultimately defines who you are and/or who you want to be. Fortunately, we do have the freedom to choose. Although we may be ostracized socially, we probably won't be given shock treatments to remove the sickness. That is not to say that choice is always supported or respected even among the most enlightened.

I suppose I have a few questions of my own. It has been my experience that male artists/musicians/whatevers come across as more universal. After viewing a painting of flowers, you look at the nameplate and the name is a man's, is it easier to accept it as art? If the name had been a woman's, would the painting seem easier to dismiss as sentimental? One day the existence of a God is confirmed so, off you go to find what infinite wisdom had to offer. When you stand face to face with god, god is a 13-year-old girl. Is that difficult to imagine? Even though I wish it weren't so, I find the label of "genius" more plausible when it is applied to male art or men in general. Perhaps this is because it is rarely used to describe women or their work. Perhaps not. I'm sorry for rambling and for not using more music specific references. Instead of a flower painting, I should say love song? Does pop music discriminate in regards to sex? Yes and no.

J. Sommerfeld, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I've noticed a surge in man-bashing songs in the current "R&B" genre. And I think it all began with Destiny's Child.

Please. It started with TLC. "No Scrubs" yo. You thought wrong.

Larms, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Did your friend really say 'soi-disant "western" culture'? If so how did s/he indicate the quotemarks? (With fingers = a sign your friendship must end.) If not, and you are falsely attributing this phrase to him/her, are you truly the friend you *say* you are?

mark s, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Big "Ouch" on the perception of genius part - sadly goes back to Virginia Woolfe's "Lady Painter" syndrome... I've been watching this thread develop and the first conditioned response is the usual liberal defense of "Gendered?! Noooo - pop music is now the progressive, equalizing force that says anyone can play guitar." But, the reality is still boy and girl pop, even more sexualized than the preceding decade. Nothing has changed much since the 80's, unless you count that Madonna pushed 3rd wave feminism to make us (all genders) feel [falsely?] in control of being commodified. It hasn't changed the playing field too drastically - only blurred lines a bit. It's almost like saying cars are non-gendered, but in some depressing marketed sense they are - minivan for mom, suv for dad - but then again, there always great contradictions which fuel pop culture and it's New Revolutionaries (see Le Tigre and anyone on the Mr Lady label)...

Jason, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Much of pop music is gender biased because, frankly its prime target are young children who are either too scared to admit they like "real" boys..or have "boy germ" issues (vice versa). With this market in mind it makes a lot of sense that the pop industry will divide itself along gender lines at times, in order to appeal to a select group (their target audience).

However, this is not a new phenomenon. It's been happening for decades...for as long as pop music has been around. And the male and female "buddy flick" has also been around forever...and movies like "Gentlemen prefer blondes" to "Romi and Michelles High School Reunion" and both indicative of how long the phenomenon has existed.

sobriquet, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No, Mark, my friend is tasteful enough not to use those tacky finger gestures to indicate quotation marks; I threw the "soi-disant" bit in both to show off the pitiful little French I know and demonstrate that we are both aware that "western" culture is either so vague or preeminent in the world today that to call it "western" is something of a misnomer, even if America does control most of the world's pop culture markets. Sorry if I offended you; it's precisely because I didn't want to sound like a post-colonial imperialist that I phrased myself so. I thank the rest of you for your thoughtful commentary so far.

X. Y. Zedd, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It didn't start with TLC either. Actually I don't call it man-bashing, I see it as asking to be treated with some RESPECT. Now sock it to me!

R.E.S.P.E.C.T., Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The question isn't really does pop music use gender stereotypes (right?) cause that's too obvious, but is it MORE sexist now that before?

I tried hard to think about what you meant, and as with a couple of other questions at the moment (what if no pop? what if no punk? what if absolute standards of taste?) it requires this kind of conceptual distanting and understanding of a WHOLE CULTURE all at once - to contain this within your mind - it was difficult to see the present whole, so if I imagine looking backwards on this moment, what I see is a bunch of desperate people (the entrepreneurs?) rushing to find out what people's desires are, and filling them immediately they arise, and when those needs are slaked, rushing to find out what the next are, and I see the objects of this attention becoming increasingly bemused and dazed - this is most closely analogous to the Savage's mother in Brave New World, who comes back from the reservation and with delight begins taking soma, and finally overdoses, a tragic fat figure. I guess this means that none of us are well adapted to the contemporary world, unlike the conditioned population who made up the mainstream of Brave New World - gender ceases to matter, because all our desires are being taken away from us one by one. If this process continues, we will be nostalgic for the anxiety of sexism

So I tried to answer seriously!

ms, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(in the above distanting = distancing)

Sorry to be so irrelevant BUT in PG Wodehouses' letters (Performing Flea) I happen to be reading:

I bought Aldous Huxley's Brave World thing, but simply can't read it. What a bore these stories of the future are. The whole point of Huxley is that he can write better about modern life than anybody else, so of course he goes and writes about the future, blast him.

ms, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, ms, you got it right--and if there's any confusion about the question, it's that I didn't phrase myself well enough. I'm asking about degrees, not what's obvious; that is, has pop music, like seemingly so much else in our society, grown more divided along sexual lines and/or more sexist in recent times?

Aldous Huxley, like everyone who writes about the future, is really writing about the past, his own time: society as he saw it then and what its trends and politics and obsessions were, and much more. Just as Orwell did in "1984." (Remember, its original title was "1948.") Glad someone out there still reads Wodehouse; I'm off on an E. F. Benson kick myself: "bitch, bitch, bitch," as his critics said. So everyone, bitch on....

X. Y. Zedd, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
Revive.

Cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 20 April 2003 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Martin skidmark to thread. Oops did I say that?

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, if my gender wants to actually sing rather than just rap or just produce or write songs, then the hitlist music of the past 15 years definitely discriminates against the male gender.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 20 April 2003 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

That's the first time I've heard that version of my surname from anyone over about 12 years old, if Calum is over 12 years old (you haven't told us, I don't think: 20, 21?). Anyway, what is my part here, in your tiny little mind?

What are you on about, Geir? Have you not noticed the number of boy bands there have been, or the current superstardom of Justin Timberlake? Hip hop and urban music is a dominant force now, and certainly the former is very male-dominated, but there is still the odd female superstar, most notably Missy of course.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 April 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah, I'm older than you think - just believe that the funniest insults are the most childish. Skidmark.

Your part, as someone who failed to reply to my email whereupon I showed you in as much detail as I could be arsed, why you're a moron for thinking I'm sexist, is to debate this topic with all the maturity that you accuse me of not possessing. It's not hard really, all I'm looking for is for you to try and present a balanced and rational arguement about the use of sexual imagery in music. I mean, you do get turned on by something right? Maybe your mum in lingerie, maybe something a bit more "normal" but SOMETHING turns you on right? Certain images, somewhere along the line, must register with that floppy part of your anatomy and you must think: "Hmm, she's quite nice looking must keep an eye out for future videos from her". Or, you could be like a mate of mine, who has bought all sorts of toss based primarily upon the sexual appeal of the lady singing the song (something, I should add, I've never been suckered into - even as a young 'un). Seriously, he even paid £40 to see Avril Lavigne live. As I said to him: "Seriously man, what chance have you got of ever shagging Avril Lavigne?" But, then again, in Avril's defence she doesn't "sell" herself as a sex object - she just happens to be pretty cute with sexy lips. So what should she do? Cover this up and "ugly" herself?

This thread, really, is redundant. Pop music doesn't discriminate against anyone's sex - and rock and roll has always sold some form of sex. Bands get into the whole rock thing, primarily, to get laid and party. Which is why any accusations of sexism on a music forum is ONE BIG JOKE. The only music I find that does discriminate against women is rap - though I admit a large ignorance towards the appeal of the genre. But all this guns being flashed about, women being degraded in the lyrics and So Solid Crew smacking a girl in the face makes me very concerned indeed. So maybe we should have a thread where, instead of getting his knickers in a twist because I happen to point out that Emma Bunton could share my sleeping bag anyday, Martin instead debates the ins and outs of misogyny (and I do like to make a distinction between misogyny and sexism - as they are very different and not interlinked as some ILMers seem to believe) in rap.

How about it?

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread, really, is redundant.

More redundant than you?

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

See? You ask for a serious answer and along comes a primate to go 'UGUGUGUG' with the worst one liner known to humankind. Did it take you more than three seconds to think that one up?

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus, man, do you have a steel plate in your head or something? Nobody will argue with you because we -- and I think I speak for just about every other person on this forum -- find you incredibly tedious and off-putting. It's not that you don't have a point. It's that we don't like your approach, and we don't much care for you in a general way.

Go somewhere else.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i'm imagining calum bent over his desk, brow furrowed, with a pen pressed to his lips as he slaves all night over the next emma bunton thread

minna (minna), Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

And for you Minna I just posted one! Off the top of my head I should add.

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

You think you deserve better, Calum? You think you are debating on a serious level? You think talking about my mother earns you respect and a serious response? You're an idiot Calum. There are nematode worms with a more sophisticated understanding of sexism than you. There's an old cartoon I remember by anarchist Donald Rooum (if that's spelled right) where the joke is an old woman not seeing a distinction between 'sexist' and 'sexy'. It's a problem you have too.

I didn't reply to your cretinous email because I have better things to do than correspond with you. I responded to your first email to me because it was you whining to a moderator, and I felt I had a responsibility to respond to that. Your second one didn't fall into that category, so I didn't have to waste my time on you. In my first I pointed out that you were the worst reader of other people I'd ever known, and you are continuing this here. If you are so interested in my sexual tastes, it shouldn't take much searching of ILX to find me talking about sex a great deal. As you have pointed out yourself, there are many people who've talked loads about sex, often in very explicit terms, without getting attacked the way you have. Has it occurred to you to try to work out why? I know you have the notion that women get away with more because we all want them (an attitude inevitably found in misogynists), but there are many men, me included, who have talked plenty about sex here, with no criticism. Why is that, Calum? Can you see a difference in the way others do it?

There are quite a few people here who imagine that you can't be as dumb as you act, and that it must just be deliberate provocation. I think you're sincere, and you just don't understand anything. Who's right?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I think if you had half of the first hand experience of feminist debate and influence that I have had and done half the reading I have done on the subject you'd realise you are nothing more than an upper middle class prick that has probably never had the chance to live with/ grow with or speak with females from different creeds and backgrounds.

I have no notion to defend myself against your dumbass accusations, but I strongly believe that in a real time debate I'd whip your ass. Aside from that, many of the threads I've posted here have been done with the express purpose of having a joke, and judging by the pathetic, life or death, response they get from morons like yourself I'd have to say that the most intelligent person on here is most certainly not you. Check out the replies to my most recent threads 100 plus messages! Now check out the number of replies to your muso threads. Slightly less interesting isn't it?

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

And I think I quick search would show you that this 'idiot' might well have a higher level of education than you. My friend who posted recently is about to become a fucking Doctor! Nevermind though eh? Posting a joke thread about Kelly Osbourne tells someone as ignorant as you all you need to assume about people's intelligence!

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

well i know who i'd rather have a pint and conversation with

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

this 'idiot' might well have a higher level of education than you

Ah. THAT was money well-spent.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

and i bet Garry Bushell doesnt consider himself sexist either

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 April 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I love that Calum proves that he is well educated by claiming that he has a friend who is about to get a doctorate! Should I cite knowing professors as proof that I am smarter? Unfortunately I also know people who left school at 16, so it all balances out and I don't know how educated I am! Still, Calum might well have had plenty of education. It's a bit of a shame to have it all go to waste like this, if so.

Also, lots of people saying "You're an idiot, Calum" != great threads.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry it came across that way. I've not got a PhD, I'm at Masters level.

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that I believe education matters all that much, as it so happens, or reveals any sort of bearing on common sense. I just don't approve of being called an idiot by some upper middle class moron that shows very little perception or intelligence himself and who's perception of me seems to be as someone that has not got considerable experience of people of all sorts of creeds, backgrounds and colours. I might have a good education and be well read Mr Skidmark but this does not mean that I fail to find humour in things that you may not, yourself, laugh at. This, I admit, does not make me right or wrong for that matter, but your own replies to me seem to rely on repeating yourself or using 'sexist' rhetoric without actually investigating the word use or linguistics of my posts which should indicate to anyone with half a brain that, indeed, I'm winding you up. You silly silly man. I do wonder sometimes...

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd laugh if Calum's surname was Blabcock. i guess we'll never know...

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm interested in what makes you think I'm upper middle class. Using the term once made me think it was just more meaningless rhetoric, but you've used it twice now. I can't begin to imagine what gives that impression, which is not true. And whatever did I say to give you the impression that I didn't think you'd known people of various creeds/colours/etc.?

Your education has indeed gone beyond mine: I have not done any postgraduate studies. Have you learned anything yet?

BTW, "I was only joking" is the most feeble excuse in the history of the world.

Right, that is my last word on this. Calum is aiming his studpidity in my direction because I wouldn't accede to his request to delete a post insulting him. I have already wasted far too much of my time talking to the kind of moron I'd avoid in any other circumstances. Say what you like Calum, I'm not playing any more.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes Martin, I've learned to only enter into serious debates with those that I presume can at least equal my intelligence. Of which you are not one. Have a nice life.

Calum, Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

good thing Martin will never read that last statement.

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

What are you on about, Geir? Have you not noticed the number of boy bands there have been, or the current superstardom of Justin Timberlake?

But they are in minority. Besides, they are part of the same stupid "looks are more important than music talent" craze that all the female "singers" are.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 20 April 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I think all Justin Timberlake's singles so far have been good, personally. Anyway, last week's UK top ten (not seen this week's yet) has five male vocals, 4 females and one mixed (J-Lo and LL). Some hip hop, obviously, but certainly some 'proper' singing too. How are male singers discriminated against?

Also, pop music has always been more favourable towards beautiful and sexy performers. In this respect, the prejudice is probably more of a burden on women - it's still easier to be an unattractive male in pop than an unattractive woman. When was the last female star as aesthetically unappealing as Senior out of Junior Senior, for instance?

On boy bands, do you not see great melodic songwriting talent in, for example, Take That's 'Back For Good'? That was written by Gary Barlow of the band, not some backstage person.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 April 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

but Senior is an anomaly Martin, in that he's not only seen as ugly but he also looks quite old compared to the rest of the people in the charts. still you're right i think, its a little easier for ugly men to achieve stardom...mysteriously once they do they usually become considered beautiful by many anyway

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 April 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

mind you, as much as we all love Missy, dare i say she's never been considered attractive by most people?

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 April 2003 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I'm not saying there are no exceptions - but I think she had to keep making fantastic records for some time before making it big. If she had that talent and looked like Eve, say, I think she might have made it much more quickly. Also she looks pretty good nowadays, I think. How many women as out of shape as Barry White or Meat Loaf have had continuing success like theirs?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 April 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you mean 'we all love Missy'? I'd gut her on the spot!
She's not attractive at all, no (as a matter of fact she's disgusting), but she's been shaped in an image. She's more like a cartoon character, which makes her a proper exception from the normal attitudes described above.

Tijn, Sunday, 20 April 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

You'd gut her for not being attractive to you?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 April 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

No, for being shit and spreading her influence to ensure a whole shit music scene.

Tijn, Sunday, 20 April 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry to interrupt:

I don't think that pop music discriminates against my sex, if that exists

pinefox in hermaphrodidic shockah!

Ally (mlescaut), Sunday, 20 April 2003 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

On boy bands, do you not see great melodic songwriting talent in, for example, Take That's 'Back For Good'?

No, I don't see that one as a good song. It isn't harmonically complex at all.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 20 April 2003 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, pop music has always been more favourable towards beautiful and sexy performers. In this respect, the prejudice is probably more of a burden on women - it's still easier to be an unattractive male in pop than an unattractive woman.

It used to be, but it isn't anymore. There is no room for a Mick Jagger, for a Phil Collins, for a Steven Tyler, in music anymore. In the past, those guys could compensate for their looks by using humour in their music videos. These days, however, that doesn't work, simply because today's kids have no sense of humour.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 20 April 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Mick Jagger and Steven Tyler are, or at least were, very sexy! And what about the Senior bloke that I mentioned - I don't imagine he is widely fancied?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 April 2003 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Meat Loaf and Barry White are on the hitlists because they already had a name. Non-good-looking guys simply don't get recording contracts these days, regardless of talent.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 20 April 2003 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

(Charts, Geir, Charts. Meat Loaf and Barry White may well be on some people's hit lists, but I expect that's not what you mean :-) )

OleM (OleM), Sunday, 20 April 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Junior Senior benefit by a) being European and b) making irresistable fun pop music you can dance to...i'm sure not many girls find the guys in Scooter attractive either. and then there's DJ Otzi...it just seems that the British charts tolerate non-modelesque middle-aged European popsters more than even their British counterparts (of which there arent actually many as they're all either making dadrave or dadrock)

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 April 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

but i'll never understand how any woman or man found Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler THAT sexy myself...i mean i can at least see how the lead guitarists in their bands wouldve got attention on a looks basis but the singers just seemed so goofy

stevem (blueski), Sunday, 20 April 2003 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

within the hipster bubble that i sociate there seems to be minor differences in how men and women go about with their music projects. the girls rarely get their shit together. the guys on the other hand are often more active in overcoming obstacles and getting things going. But there are exseptions. there is a band of five girls who are really hard working and who also enjoy a little bit of success. but quite often they are labeled as a girlgroup, like in an interview on the student radio (I mean aren't university students supposed to be a little bit aware?). but on the other hand that could work to their vantage.

maybe there are inequalities but above all i think that men and women face very different kinds of obstacles.

of heaven, Monday, 21 April 2003 00:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Stevem: As for dance acts, their looks have never been important anyway. In fact, their personalities are entirely uninteresting for those who buy their records. I am speaking of pop, and within pop, it has definitely become harder for singer/songwriters with their own distinct styles to hit charts now than it used to be in the 70s or 80s.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i consider Junior Senior, Scooter and DJ Otzi pop music more than anything else, whereas i suppose you don't. either way you're right about singer/songwriters in the mainstream.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 21 April 2003 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

yeh it might be progress if people didnt refer to The Donnas as a girl-group and just A group as well

stevem (blueski), Monday, 21 April 2003 00:39 (twenty-two years ago)

either way you're right about singer/songwriters in the mainstream.

Which sucks because practically all of the best mainstream pop of the 60s, 70s and 80s was done by acts writing their own material.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 21 April 2003 09:01 (twenty-two years ago)

This is nonsense: most of Motown, all of Spector, the Shangri-Las the Monkees, just from the '60s! How are they not prominent among the very best mainstream pop? They have as major a place as the Beatles and Beach Boys.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 21 April 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

This is nonsense: most of Motown, all of Spector, the Shangri-Las the Monkees, just from the '60s!

None of them were among the best mainstream pop of the 60s. The best mainstream pop of the 60s was, apart from Beach Boys and The Byrds, all English.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Motown was kind of decent, but not at all as great as the best British beat music anyway.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 00:03 (twenty-two years ago)

my sex is always discriminating against pop music.

di smith (lucylurex), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 07:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir Hongro and Calum Robert Waddell on one thread - whatta mess. [Mildly over the line sentence removed to get Calum to shut the hell up -- James you should know better than to bait him, Admin]

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 07:09 (twenty-two years ago)

[Abusive Calum Post Removed -- Admin] [P.S. forging names is a no no]

Calum, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm

Hmmm, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I know forging names is a no-no and I hate doing such pathetic immature things, but when someone writes my name in the same content as an ever so slightly illegal act I think I have a right to respond with a similar insult. I'm glad both posts were removed (which was my intention) as both were false, but this James Blount guy really should contact me and give me his home address so I can meet him with a big 2 by 4 in one hand...

Calum, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

You have no "right" to anything on a private board and certainly not to respond in kind to something you find offensive.

Much better to simply request a mod change it rather than throw an abusive temper-tantrum. The reason JB's other post was not removed is that it was no nastier than the hate you were throwing his way, and additionally was not libelous (much as you disliked it, there were no direct accusations involved). So things like that probably *won't* be removed and things like here probably *will* be.

Now you know, so please don't take what happened here as a reason to go posting abusive forged things all around the boards whenever you're unhappy. Doing so is *never* right, no matter *what* the situation.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Fair enough, thanks for being upfront.

Calum, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)


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