At the beginning of the Nineties something happened in Britain and it was great. The eighties had been crap. Crap politics and crap music. And then in 1990 there erupted a spirit of Euphoria, culminating a few years later in an explosion of creativity in British popular culture. In the mid-nineties, across the globe, music, art, fashion and film, if it was British, then it was cool. Liam and Noel Gallagher, Damon Albarn, Jarvis Cocker, Damien Hirst, Ozwald Boateng ... our homegrown talent flourished in all creative fields.
This funny and revealing new film documents this phenomenon. It tells the story of a Labour Government who seized upon ‘Cool Britannia’ and used it to rebrand the country. British Culture rocked …especially its bands and a bright new Labour Government apparently wanted to rock along too……….Live Forever charts the sounds that defined these times. Not only giving outrageous banter from the Gallagher brothers, but also 3D from Massive Attack, Jarvis Cocker, Damon Albarn, among others take us from the Stone Roses Spike Island gig, to the manufactured bands of today, to offer a more intriguing vision of Britain and it’s music.
Live Forever is John Dower’s theatrical directorial debut. His deserved reputation stems mainly from his work with Channel Four, which was described by The Guardian as “the future of television”. The Film is produced by John Battsek of Passion Pictures, responsible for the Oscar and Emmy Award winning ONE DAY IN SEPTEMBER, which was also distributed in the UK by Helkon SK Film Distribution. The film recently screened in the Regus London Film Festival. Live Forever is a Passion Pictures Production for the BBC, Film Council and Horsebridge Productions, released by Helkon SK Film Distribution on 14th February 2003. The music from & inspired by the film 'Live Forever' is available from February 2003 (EMI/Virgin TV)
PRODUCTION NOTES - written by the director John Dower
After the success of, 'One Day In September' Passion Pictures' first venture into the world of feature documentary making, producer John Battsek was determined to continue making 'big screen' documentaries. Teaming up with director John Dower, whom he had already worked with on a small documentary called Sneaker Freaks, the two begun to toy with a number of ideas and were struck by the lack of contemporary British music films with big ambitions. Aside from 'The Filth and the Fury', which documented the rise and fall of the Sex Pistols some twenty years ago, other British music films seemed mainly to be served up in cringeworthy 'Top Ten' and 'I Love the 70's/80's/90's' style clip shows for tabloid television. The alternative was made-for-TV long-running series' on dance, techno and garage. Battsek and Dower wondered whether it would be possible to make a film about an aspect of the music business, but make it for the big screen.
Having discussed it for some time they decided that of all the music business phenomena of the last decade, the rise and fall of one of the most visible movements in British music, Britpop, might make the perfect subject. It was also a story that everyone felt familiar with but that no one had ever really told. So, John Battsek and John Dower decided to make Live Forever - their take on contemporary British music.
With the lead singer of Travis commenting that "our music is like a chair, you sit in it" and The Stereophonics telling their audience to "have a nice day" some might say British rock had become dour and unglamorous. In this climate John Battsek believed we were in danger of forgetting the sheer excitement of a band like Oasis bursting onto the scene or the buzz an album like Parklife created. For director John Dower Oasis' debut album Definitely Maybe was the Never Mind the Bollocks his generation had never had. With bands now being built on television and music reduced to a parade of pretty puppets it felt like the right time to tell this story.
It felt it was time to put a record like Definitely Maybe into the context of other significant albums of the 1990's such as Blue Lines, Parklife and Different Class, as well as placing it alongside the explosion of creativity in British art and fashion that characterized the period.
Battsek and Dower decided they would not make Live Forever unless they could land all three of what they identified as the 'Holy Trinity' of Britpop - Cocker, Albarn and the Gallaghers. They are proud to have all three in the same film, especially as much of the pre-production was taken up with securing access. Modern celebrity being what it is the director would only get each of his interviewees for an hour at the most. Talking heads would be unavoidable and there would be little opportunity to shoot sequences.
In order to give the documentary more resonance than the usual television fare John Dower decided to shoot all the interviews on the same wide lens. Placing each of his interviewees in a very specific environment was also crucial to the documentary's overall feel. There were moments when the director wavered over shooting the whole film on one lens but he was fortunate to have French DP Fred Fabre holding his hand. Fred Fabre lights a film with his own distinctive look and was invaluable in scouting suitable locations to set-up and shoot quickly on Super-16.
Place is very important in Live Forever. Contemporary footage of the significant places that gave rise to the music of the time - Spike Island, Merseyside; Colchester, Essex; Neepsend, Sheffield; Burnage, Manchester; Junction 17 of the M5, Bristol - build an image of a Britain very much at odds to the mediated, metropolitan world of Cool Britannia. Visually a sense of place binds the documentary together and helped to build the rhythm for the film in the opening weeks of the edit.
Editor Jake Martin had impressive music credits (particularly Channel 4's BAFTA nominated Hip-Hop Years) but it was his reputation for a strong narrative sense that brought him on board as part of the team. Constructing a film out of a decade of popular culture as seen from several different viewpoints and without the safety net of a voiceover required somebody with a good eye for story.
A lot of interesting material hit the cutting room floor. Although director John Dower felt that the story of British dance had been extensively told he was keen to bring the story up to the present day. Interviews were shot with the So Solid Crew and The Streets to show how they had mutated out of the very British styles of jungle and garage and into the mainstream musical culture. But unfortunately it proved a leap too far for the viewer, presenting them with a kaleidoscope of endings.
There was constant debate about where to draw the musical line. Although their music is featured in the film there is no interview with the musical force that is Radiohead. It was a painful decision to leave Prodigy out of the documentary. And at one point the director attempted to make the link between the psychedelic brilliance of the Beta Band and one of the decade's biggest albums Screamadelica (sadly another sequence that hit the cutting room floor).
But in the end it was decided that in order to maintain strong, muscular narrative it had to be hung on the perceived big three - Pulp, Blur and Oasis.
There is one band in the film that you might not of heard of … Wonderwall. In his book Time Travel Jon Savage describes how, in the mid-Nineties especially, pop time went circular; loopy. Nowhere was this more evident than the raft of tribute bands that sprung up to ride the coattails of Britpop. We wanted one of these bands in the film. Once you met them that band could only be Wonderwall.
Some people who have seen the film just don't get them. We love them and there was never any doubt in our minds that any one else could open the film. Filming Wonderwall in Rochdale, on a wet April morning was an unforgettable experience. 'Liam' and 'Noel' cracked open their supermarket value brand lager at 9am and regaled us with tales of their time on the road … from Butlins in Skegness … to an expat gig in Dubai. They were driven by their love of British guitar music and all its traditions. If you drank enough of the supermarket value lager it was almost like how you'd imagine meeting the Gallaghers before they made it.
Wonderwall are what makes British music great. Stuck in the small town outreaches and shitty suburbs of the country they still have their sense of humour and their music. It may not be their songs but it is their music.
sounds like a right load of twaddle. and those opening sentences are a heresy (the 80s was brilliant for both politics and music)
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)
― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)
― the internet (scg), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)
― the internet (scg), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 30 January 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 30 January 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)
― Jeff W, Thursday, 30 January 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)
The current one (with George Clooney in Soderbergh's Solaris on the cover).
S'good. Review, t'is. Not film.
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 30 January 2003 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)
And why should that be then ?
Will someoene tell me what was so wrong about the period that "Live Forever" covers ? I was there and it was wonderful. Bands I liked had never been number one before, and suddenly Blur, Oasis and Pulp were taking it in turns to do just that. And real pop fans were buying them too. Yeah, they did it with an attitude and a style that, ok, was undeniably British. And for that they could go hang a year or two later ! Well I'm sorry, history rewriters, but that is so symptomatic of that good old Brit disease - success can only be flawed. Don't get too big for your boots boys - you're only a poor little Brit Boy !
And it's no use bringing up the likes of Sleeper, Shed Seven or any of the straight-in-at-26 bands that got lucky as proof that it were rubbish. Christ, for every Beatles there are a dozen Freddie and the Dreamers, in every genre.
I for one will look forward to it, and while I don't expect to be in the presence of a masterpiece, I'm sure it will be nothing less than entertaining.
― Darren, Thursday, 30 January 2003 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)
in truth, i love the 90s probably more than the 80s for all the amazing music that came out in that time. it is annoying that Oasis, Blur and to a lesser extent Pulp are seen as the godheads of a supposed musical movement that ran throughout those years, when there was a lot more going on and they just really weren't that big a deal all in all. now we all know Pulp are a great band and yes Oasis and Blur had their moments of course, perhaps often more image and concept wise rather than the actual music they made...and the mandate of this film has been designed to focus more on those bands intentionally (the Prodigy and scenes like rave, jungle and UK garage were just as important if not more so, but perhaps that story can be told better by other people...if it needs to be at all) - but really it just seems like a boring trawl through an experience that is still fresh enough in most people's minds for them not to bother doing this either.
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 30 January 2003 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 30 January 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)
I loved the mid-nineties
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 31 January 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 31 January 2003 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)
― dan (dan), Friday, 31 January 2003 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)
97-99: super-ace.
― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 31 January 2003 02:06 (twenty-two years ago)
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 31 January 2003 02:10 (twenty-two years ago)
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 31 January 2003 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 31 January 2003 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 31 January 2003 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)
Well, I finally saw it over the weekend. Man, was I disappointed. I suppose that it is a period of music that I know way too much about already, but shit! Most of the material covered would have seemed obvious and superficial to anyone who just skimmed the NME or MM at the time, let alone someone who had actually read any of the books and analysis of the era (not even counting the Last Party which I haven't read yet.)
It went into the whole phenomenon at about the sort of level of someone who had watched the "chart war" on the Six O'Clock news or something! Not to mention several glaring factual inaccuracies... and jumping straight from the "Death of BritPop" at the hands of Robbie Williams to S Club freaking Juniors as an example of manufactured chartpop, completely ignoring the existence of the Spice Girls - a British group very much OF that era who astonishingly sold more than Oasis and Blur PUT TOGETHER in the States...
I just thought it was highly disappointing. Despite getting to see Damien Hirst rolling around on his bed. ;-)
And the "irony" of "working class Northern Hero" Noel being filmed in his opulent country mansion, while "middle class Southern twat" Damon was filmed in what looked like his local pub... I wondered if it was intentional - I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it wasn't, considering how cack-handedly they handled the whole "ooh, it's about Class and North/South, isn't it?" aspect of the "fued".
Rubbish, really. :-(
― kate, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)
Spice Girls had absolutely nothing to do with Britpop. Britpop was
1. mostly male2. mainly guitar-based3. singer/songwriter based (that is: all songs were written by the band members themselves)4. typically English sounding5. not at all dancable
Spice Girls was neither of those.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)
I'm not going along with your (incorrect) definition of BritPop, I am talking about what was discussed in the film.
-Massive Attack (heavily featured in film) were NOT BritPop-S Club Juniors (featured in the film as evidence of chartpop) were neither the most successful chartpop band, *nor* contemporaries of the end of Britpop in the way that Spice Girls were.
*IF* you have seen the film, I will respond to your comments, Geir. I am not debating your arbitrary musical world view, I am debating a very specific factual and continuity error in the film. Have you seen the film in question?
― kate, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)
simultaneous post w/ kate's above
― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)
Equally frustrating was the jump straight from Baggy to Britpop, totally ignoring very existence of Shoegazer, etc. When you are talking about a band like Oasis, it seemed very silly not to put them in the context of Creation Records and any of the other bands on their roster around the same time/just previous (Ride, Primal Scream, MBV, etc.)
― kate, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)
― scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)
― piscesboy, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 27 November 2003 04:51 (twenty-two years ago)
It wasn't about BritPop, it was about Oasis. And that is very sad, because I was more interested in finding out about all the OTHER bands that were part of that scene. They didn't even bring up the Jarvis Cocker humiliating Michael Jackson at all (even though that would have been a perfect way of showing the contempt that BritPop had for american culture.)The Gallaghers did not dissappoint in their quest to make themselves look like more of a pair of jerkoffs that I had even previously suspected. Most Egregious Noel Quote:"Oh, well I grew up working class, and that makes my soul more pure than [Damon Albarn's]"SMACK SMACK SMACK SMACK SMACK!
Most Egregious Liam Quote:Interviewer: "Do you believe in Reincarnation?"Liam: "Yeah."Interviewer: "Who'd you used to be?"Liam: "John Lennon."(Can't have happened unless you were born in January of 81, you slackjawed, monobrowed walking knobshine!)
Anyhow, the most entertaining thing of all on the DVD was actually the "Wonderwall Diary"; which is real-life Spinal-tap-esque video footage of an Oasis cover band trying to get to a gig "in the Butlins"; And after watching that I'd have to say that the Fake Noel and Fake Liam and 1000000000x cooler than the real thing. Better drinking buddies too.Anyone who has to use mascara to give themselves a fake unibrow is better than someone who has one naturally as well.
― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 17 January 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)
― cathy berberian (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 January 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)
They should have just named this "Let's Laugh at the Brothers Gallagher".
― darin (darin), Monday, 17 January 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)
I quite like Noel and thought that was funny.
Little more than a passing mention of the Auteurs though, sigh.
― Ferg, Ah (Ferg), Monday, 17 January 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)
― thee music mole, Monday, 17 January 2005 21:19 (twenty years ago)
And no MBV. WTF?
I wouldn't expect to see them at all in this. In fact I was a little surprised even to see Massive Attack.
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 17 January 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)
― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 17 January 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)
It really depends on what angle you take. The film doesn't really reflect events as I remember them. I think it makes a small point that's probably the case, that's that loads of people who went to Spike Island came back and wanted to be in bands, a bit like the Sexpistols a decade before. That said, this clearly doesn't apply to Blur, who were already on the go and sort of piggybacked the Madchester thing. The music people I knew at that time (and still know) was a good deal more varied than this portrays and most people I know who liked the bands in question also loved MBV, Massive Attack amongst others. For me, the Madchester/Spike Island thing has way more in common with acid house a couple of years prior than Britpop a few years afterwards.
It does make some sense if you treat it as "The story of Oasis" I suppose, although I can't really remember how much of it concentrates on that, since it's been a while since I saw it.
Noel's bit about being working class I suspect is just his attempt to wind up Damon Albarn and as such I think should be applauded. Much as I think Oasis are an amazingly tedious band.
― KeithW (kmw), Monday, 17 January 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)
And Trainspotting did?
― darin (darin), Monday, 17 January 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)
Also, just for the record.the La's > OasisWorld Party > BlurLush > Sleeper/EchobellyXTC > Pulpin fact, XTC is better than Oasis, Blur, Sleeper and Pulp put together. It still fills me with rage that Britain pushed aside World Party, Lush, XTC, Consolidated, (Slowdive, Catherine Wheel...) and gave their undivided attention to Oasis. Grrrr.
and speaking of Sleeper... this Louise Wener person.... This stale, chubby plain jane is the one Calum Robert kept nattering on about? I'm not sure I see the attraction.
― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)
― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 02:47 (twenty years ago)
Absolutely. We are talking about Britpop/"Cool Britannia" here. Perhaps this movie doesn't present it's thesis very well.
Here are two articles which respond to the film and which should give you some more background information:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,905008,00.htmlhttp://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/26/1059084255095.html
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 03:35 (twenty years ago)
― KeithW (kmw), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 11:17 (twenty years ago)
― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)
― Miles Finch, Tuesday, 18 January 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)
― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 11:53 (twenty years ago)
Ha! Hats off to Stubbs once again. I remember reading that article at the time and pumping my fist in the air.I was 14-15 at the height of Britpop, and I loved Oasis, Blur and Pulp at the time (Pulp still rule. The others? Meh) but was put off by all the English lager lad chauvinism. Having been introduced to grunge a year or so before, the anti-American sentiments really grated. And as a Scot, Euro 96 wasn't much fun.I moved on to Radiohead and the Manics (hey, they had some good records, and what else was I going to listen to as an angst ridden teen? Jandek?)and then had my Damascene conversion to the joys of hip-hop and soul by Beck.Obviously Damien Allbran is an opportunist little turd and comes across as such in Live Forever, yet John Harris remains on his side in his book. Not read the book yet, but went to see JH plugging it in Borders. Apart from his love of Blur, his argument is pretty spot on: The Britpop era has changed the British music scene for the worse. It's taken a long time to recover. Perhaps some things needed shaking up - but it's come at a cost. The internet has allowed small labels and bands to establish themselves and the revival in popularity of live music has allowed local scenes to thrive.
― stew, Tuesday, 18 January 2005 12:14 (twenty years ago)
― KeithW (kmw), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 12:24 (twenty years ago)
― stew, Tuesday, 18 January 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 12:35 (twenty years ago)
i love the fact that the britpop stories told from whatever angle, always start with suede. love it love it love it. it must p-ss damon off no end!
actually what WAS the reason that damon albarn alludes to/ gets angry about in that interview for the big falling out with oasis (who as history often forgets actually got on okay for about 6 months)? i sort of heard it was about l!$a m00rish!!
if anyone can find the bbc 4 thread please do revive.
― piscesboy, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 11:15 (twenty years ago)
The one thing that stuck with me after watching it was that Damon Albarn's talking voice is about 5 octaves lower than his singing voice! How exactly does that work?
The problem with documentaries attempting to cover the zeitgeist of decades past is that you can never be sure how much of what they are talking about really happened, and how much is the effect they have deluded themselves into thinking the time period had. The other problem is that they really glossed over the end of Britpop, how it ended, what took its place, and what its future could be...I can understand why they used Robbie Williams as an example, because he was obviously a huge presence (and he has a bit of history with Oasis), but the S Club Juniors references was completely irrelevant outside of Noel and Liam's little anecdote about them, as they formed years after Britpop became history. The Spice Girls were obviously overlooked, as were all the girl groups and boy bands and pop acts that went on to have far more international success than any of the bands profiled in the film (hmm).
It was entertaining and all, but I didn't finish the movie knowing much more than I did before, so it was a bit disappointing in that regard. It needed more Jarvis!
― musically, Monday, 20 August 2007 23:01 (eighteen years ago)
The Spice Girls were obviously overlooked, as were all the girl groups and boy bands and pop acts that went on to have far more international success than any of the bands profiled in the film (hmm).
they weren't britpop! neither were oasis, but they still sort of came up through the indie ranks (insofar as they were on creation and the nme supported them).
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 20 August 2007 23:34 (eighteen years ago)
Damon sings a lot lower now, see "Caravan", or don't. Has a pretty big range, but used to sing kinda nasally high, pushing it. I think his natural range is close to his speaking voice, kinda bass-y.
― roxymuzak, Monday, 20 August 2007 23:39 (eighteen years ago)
Has this ever been released on DVD. I didn't get to see it back then as I am a sucker for 1. rockumentaries and 2. Britpop, I'd love to see it!
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:00 (eighteen years ago)
Yes. Or at least I have a burned DVD of it with special features and junk...extended interviews, etc. I guess those came from a legit DVD.
― roxymuzak, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:02 (eighteen years ago)
<i>they weren't britpop!</i>
No shit! No one in this thread who mentioned the Spice Girls meant that they were Britpop, but that they, along with other acts, succeeded Britpop as the New Big Thing, and therefore deserved mention in order to give the film a bit of context. On the same note, so did the bands that preceeded Britpop.
I just watched it on DVD via Netflix, and I think it's been available for a while...it's been in my queue for years or something.
― musically, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:08 (eighteen years ago)
I haven't been able to locate it here, but I will be in London for a few days in November, so I guess I'll search for it then.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:09 (eighteen years ago)
I think above they said it was given away for free with the paper so hopefully it won't be hard to find.
― musically, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 01:15 (eighteen years ago)
if that isn't a fap request i don't know what is xpost
― roxymuzak, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 01:18 (eighteen years ago)
<i>The one thing that stuck with me after watching it was that Damon Albarn's talking voice is about 5 octaves lower than his singing voice! How exactly does that work?</i>
We should ask Dave Matthews, who also has this going on. I don't think I've ever heard him sing as low as he speaks.
― Vinnie, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)
A lot of the interviewees seem to be stuck playing the roles they were cast in back in the mid-90s. Liam and Noel never change obviously (though perhaps Noel reaches new depths of dull bitterness I thought). What the hell is Damon so pissed off about anyway? If you visit ILM it's not too weird to see mature adults worrying about whether Country House is better than Roll With It, but it's still strange that these guys are still fighting that battle. All the class-based reasoning/accusations are pretty hilarious too, but I guess the English sweat about that kind of stuff still (judging by some of the Lily Allen posts on here). The question I was asking myself was "When are they all going to grow up?"
― everything, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 20:08 (eighteen years ago)
Good question re: those particular characters, but don't underestimate the class stuff in the UK.
― Lostandfound, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)
Having not lived in the UK for more than a decade, this kind of thing reminds me that "knowing your place" is very important and identifying to be of a lower class than you are is practically a national sport. Folks like the Gallaghers are obsessed with it to an unhealthy degree.
It's axiomatic of traditional working class values that doing pretty much the same job every day for your whole life until you retire can be a worthy, even noble thing. So one of the reasons that Oasis barely progressed musically (despite being given the opportunity and expressing the desire) is because of their paranoia that such artistic experimentation and (perhaps) progress might out them as a bunch of poofy class traitors.
Noel's ridiculous throne is like Spinal Tap never happened.
― everything, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:33 (eighteen years ago)
I can see a point in the far future where people will no longer identify Spinal Tap, Status Quo and Oasis as being three seperate bands. Instead they will simply be considered as a single, composite entity with some mythical early days, the decades of mindless, endless riffing on G, A and Em and the long castle-dwelling decline. This entity will live for 150 years.
― everything, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 22:47 (eighteen years ago)
But relating to being working class can be a positive thing. Actually, no, it's way more complex than straight positive or negative, but Noel's fixation isn't necessarily all bad. It can be uninteresting, though.
Ha!
― Lostandfound, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 23:03 (eighteen years ago)
the spice girls sort of coexisted with britpop, just for a different audience. i suppose ginger spice wearing a union jack could be construed as part of the britpop phenomenon, in a fucked-up way. the point about britpop is it emerged from something that was basically 'alternative', with all the provisos that requires, and after it the 'alternative' scene in the UK was completely altered.
the 'live forever' doc covered (in no great depth) the bristol scene too.
don't underestimate the class stuff in the UK.
it's no joke, holmes.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 23:06 (eighteen years ago)
Oh, I know, I grew up there.
― Lostandfound, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 23:09 (eighteen years ago)
I didn't think Damon was pissed off about it, I just thought he was really annoyed that they were asking him about it. Which is ridiculous if they had given him any advance notification re: the subject of the documentary. I mean, he still could have been annoyed about them asking it but at least he could have come up with a response that wasn't just huffing and puffing about it.
― musically, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 23:13 (eighteen years ago)
this doc is about four years old, and he was pissed off in it, but i'm sure i've seen umpteen documentaries since on the same subject using the exact same footage on the 'country house' vs 'roll with it' thing, and i reckon damon's showed up for them. every time it's the same. he's a bit embarassed by it, i suppose, but is enough of a famewhore to submit to being asked about it.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 23:19 (eighteen years ago)
What The Fuck With The Lack Of Brett Anderson's Tasty Man Meat?
― andi, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 09:34 (eighteen years ago)
not big enough?
― Mark G, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 09:59 (eighteen years ago)
You Know What I Meant.
― andi, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:12 (eighteen years ago)
And You Know What I Mean!
― Mark G, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:16 (eighteen years ago)
that the musical entity known as Suede, coming as a precurser for but not actually within the defined Britpop phenomena, didn't maintain a fully successful basis beyond their second album. And his length.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:18 (eighteen years ago)
uh? 'coming up' was a big album, with lots of top ten singles. it may even have outsold the debut. i think they were totally a part of britpop. they have more in common with pulp and blur than any of those three acts had with oasis.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:21 (eighteen years ago)
Suede were fucking massive at the time as well, a _lot_ bigger than Pulp were. Jarvis was just more media friendly, but claiming Pulp were bigger than Suede is like saying, I dunno, The Ordinary Boys are bigger than Editors because Preston is in the papers a bit.
― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:26 (eighteen years ago)
I'm not sure about that. At least, Pulp were bigger than Suede amongst my circle of indie kids at the time.
And even my mum bought Different Class.
― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:29 (eighteen years ago)
ok, ok, but all that didn't work with me zing.
First rule of comedy, spike!
― Mark G, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:32 (eighteen years ago)
Louise Wener is in a band with John Harris!
― pft, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:40 (eighteen years ago)
Of course Pulp were bigger than Suede with indie kids.
Not that I want Suede to be part of this shit. I wish they were not. But, they were. I admit it.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Sweet B.A. and I can fuck 'till all of our bones break.
I've never heard 'Head Music' or 'New Morning', but, fuck, everything up to then at least, as far as I know, is fucking amazing, including the 'Sci-Fi' comp.
Fuck off.
― andi, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:43 (eighteen years ago)
what's your deal?
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:45 (eighteen years ago)
Sci-Fi Lullabies just shows how good Suede used to be and how bad they got after that!
― pft, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:48 (eighteen years ago)
x-post, what's your deal? shitfuck.
― andi, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:51 (eighteen years ago)
I would have fucked with brett anderson, but he smoked too much crack.
― pft, Wednesday, 22 August 2007 10:52 (eighteen years ago)
"new generation", by suede, is the definitive song of this era. period.
― andi, Thursday, 23 August 2007 12:00 (eighteen years ago)
pulp were bigger by miles. number of suede arena tours = nil.
― pisces, Thursday, 23 August 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)
Yeah! And just look at the ILM 90s poll!
― roxymuzak, Thursday, 23 August 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)
...OTM (xp). This, meanwhilst:
... yarbles
― Tom D., Thursday, 23 August 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)
What then, would you say is a reasonable explanation for their complete lack of musical progress over the years?
― everything, Thursday, 23 August 2007 17:10 (eighteen years ago)
Oh there's all sort of reasons, but I doubt being working class is one of them. To be honest, if Damon Albarn's career represents progress, give me Status Quo any day
― Tom D., Thursday, 23 August 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)
Oh there's all sort of reasons
I can't wait to hear them.
― everything, Thursday, 23 August 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)
All the class-based reasoning/accusations are pretty hilarious too, but I guess the English sweat about that kind of stuff still (judging by some of the Lily Allen posts on here). The question I was asking myself was "When are they all going to grow up?"
Haha! I always find myself thinking this about the American attitude to race. (Witness ILM too)
― admrl, Thursday, 23 August 2007 17:20 (eighteen years ago)
Obviously they won't be as good as yours because you're much more intelligent than me, I can tell (xp)
― Tom D., Thursday, 23 August 2007 17:21 (eighteen years ago)
You gave a good answer actually: If Damon Albarn's career represents progress, give me Status Quo any day is probably Noel's viewpoint too.
― everything, Thursday, 23 August 2007 18:18 (eighteen years ago)
it's about the songs.
― andi, Friday, 24 August 2007 05:15 (eighteen years ago)
everything OTM, Blur DID progress (startlingly so; each album is very different to the others), Oasis didn't (Be Here Now was as I said on its thread their most unique effort, by dint of it being the album on which Noel Gallacher decided to layer 400 guitars atop one another without the distortion, feedback or pitch manipulation of Kevin Shields, thus inadvertently creating an awesome, nay, heroic experiment in scale, a bit like a fucking ENORMOUS explosion in the midst of a bog-average action movie, or, like I said on another Oasis thread, create SUCH A HUGE PILE of bullshit out of their stock-in-trade bullshit that I couldn't help but be impressed - WOW THIS IS SUCH A HUGE PILE OF BULLSHIT, plus, their hackneyed melodies were actually listenable if not arresting), and Blur were infinitely the better band anyway.
As I implied on, erm, this thread, though, I've said all this before. All this has been said before, many times. It doesn't need to be said again. I shouldn't have said this. There's still time to delete this post. No, wait, there's still time to obscure this post, but not delete it. I have too much pride.
― Just got offed, Friday, 24 August 2007 20:17 (eighteen years ago)
Albarn comes across a bigger shithead every time I revisit this.
― cee-oh-tee-tee, Thursday, 16 September 2010 12:53 (fifteen years ago)
Didn't realise it was a porno.
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 16 September 2010 13:14 (fifteen years ago)
It is functionally Anglophile porn.
― cee-oh-tee-tee, Thursday, 16 September 2010 13:58 (fifteen years ago)