IDM vs. SDM

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Ever since I first heard the term IDM, it has turned my stomach. Firstly, it is mostly as far away from dance music as it is possible to get and secondly, just what is intelligent about it.

personally, i think it is time for SDM to take the baton from IDM. SDM is Stoopid Dance Music. Ridiculous bass lines and noises that you can actually dance to. I would say Mr. Oizo, Atom Heart and Akufen (sometimes) are the masters of this genre.

SDM is definitely in the 'hardcore, you know the score' school of thought as opposed to IDM's 'hardcore, we know the square root of three hundred and eighty four'.

Any others who should be in the SDM hall of fame?

― stirmonster, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Nothin' says SDM quite like "Rockafella Skank".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:15 (twenty-three years ago)

For Mentally Retarded Dance Music, just tune into the Dave Pearce Show.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:17 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.cheebadesign.com/dengamleskolen/2-live-crew.jpg

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:18 (twenty-three years ago)

jess, I love you.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:20 (twenty-three years ago)

well, i didn't wanna be too obvious.

(btw, stirmonster, belated thanx for the mix-cd.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Vengaboys!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:22 (twenty-three years ago)

L.A. Style - James Brown Is Dead

i can't help but kinda like it though...
m.

― msp, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Lo Fidelity Allstars.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:32 (twenty-three years ago)

for further illustration on my la style point...

http://www.backtotheoldskool.co.uk/james_brown_is_dead.htm

you can hear it online...
m.

― msp, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Roni Size.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Marc Arcadipane obviously embodies SDM: "I Like It Loud".

― Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

>Ever since I first heard the term IDM, it has turned my stomach. >Firstly, it is mostly as far away from dance music as it is possible
> to get and secondly, just what is intelligent about it.

Way way back at the begining you could dance to it (say, Aphex Twins "Digiridoo"). The label stuck, like lots of stupid stupid labels.

>I would say Mr. Oizo, Atom Heart and Akufen (sometimes) are the >masters of this genre.

Atom Heart?! The ravey stuff Uwe did for Pod Communications back in the day was pretty horrible, and nowadays his stuff is at least 90% undanceable (and usually much much better). Also, he changed his alias to Atom(TM).

Classic stupid dance music: "Injected with Poison"

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

grief, use other gags please

also "idm sucks, it's not 100% danceable and it is not really intelligent" + "akufen is great cz it's nearly danceable in a thin kinda way and sometimes it's a bit dumb" = um, ok

(yes, idm is an embarrassing name, people have been saying that for a decade; rushing to point out that they dislike the name, as 95% of all mentions of it do, only seems to add to its ubiquity - electroclash anyone? - and it's not getting any funnier to go "HEY i just noticed, i mean, like, GAWD, what? and i'm so totally ABOVE those snotty dichotomies!"... plus for my money bogdan, vsnares and blectum are more joyously, triumphantly dumb and FUN than most atom heart and akufen anyway)

i can't actually tell if your mention of akufen and atom heart is a plea for favourite stuff that has been pigeonholed as idm but doesn't quite fit, in which case see above, or for stuff which is totally opposed to it anyway, in which case hooray for slipmatt's smd series, dj brisk - "airhead" (slipmatt remix), mrs wood - "joanna" (tony de vit rmx). and sorry for riledness but, ugh, just too many times...

― , Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)

twitch, have you heard the new adamski single????

its fucking great! the i am the fly cover?

and belated thanx for the cd as well from me also

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:59 (twenty-three years ago)

heard it on saturday and despite wanting to hate it, i thought it was fab.

re the rest of this thread - i guess most people don't know the difference between stoopid and stupid. handy hint - the ramones were stoopid, black sabbath were stoopid, the stooges were stoopid. limp biskit are stupid. do you see?

and fletrejet, atom will always be atom heart to me - check his latest project - the stereonerds - it's thee most stoopid dancefloor filling electro i have heard in years.

― stirmonster, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 19:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Rok - Silky

(thanks as well stirmonster, no i haven't forgotten!)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 19:35 (twenty-three years ago)

and -- i was there when afx first took apart his mc 202 and created that didj sound. i was there when an acetate of 'deck the house' got dropped and 500 screaming kids started pogoing. i was there when dj slipmatt invented happy hardcore. but, i went home early 'cos it did my nut in.

― stirmonster, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 19:40 (twenty-three years ago)

yr welcome tracer hand and the rest of you who received it. a certain uk style mag asked if they could press up 20 000 copies to give away with their next issue. ha! how long before they'd end up in court?

― stirmonster, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 19:42 (twenty-three years ago)

twitch, maybe this would be of interest>

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 19:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Best example of SDM is Moby's "Drop A Beat," no question.

― Curtis Stephens, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 20:07 (twenty-three years ago)

I've never understood the fuss about "intelligent" vs. "not" -- to me it's the former is a purely pejorative term without the "better than stoopid" valuations associated with it, and essentially denoting that its suitable environment can be in an armchair in addition to a club.

― Leee (Leee), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 20:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd say Todd Edwards is a master of the genre. The way he decomposes soul divas samples to make hysterical tracks is quite anti-spiritual. In the same manner, early 90s breakbeat hardcore can considered as SDM, so can be minimal mid 90s Roni/Suv/Die/Krust. Actually, most dance music (maybe not classic US garage which is more song-oriented)is essentially and functionally stupid: the repetition principle that make any track linear and relatively predictable, the hooks that make it catchy and uplifting, are always part of a system designed to take you in some kind of brainless zone.

― Etienne (Etienne), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 20:55 (twenty-three years ago)

!!!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 21:33 (twenty-three years ago)

I think SDM songs should be required to include cheap synthesizer "orchestra hit" sounds

― Curtis Stephens, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 21:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Preferably to the extent that they take up the entire instrumentation.

― Curtis Stephens, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 21:46 (twenty-three years ago)

i should hope no one was disparaging uncle luke on this thread

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 21:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Tommy James

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 08:06 (twenty-three years ago)

The stoopid vs stupid 'dichotomy', invented yrs back by The Wire, is even worse/more meaningless than IDM vs SDM! Ian Penman (I think) was very eloquent and entertaining in writing it up which is presumably why it's stuck, but it's never meant more than stoopid="cool to like"/stupid="uncool to like" cf stirmonster's citations above.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 11:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd post here but obviously I don't have the right answers, stoopid/stupid etc etc etc

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 11:46 (twenty-three years ago)

And anyway it feels like the word stupid has just been appropriated here to distinguish between two pretentious styles of music while still erecting the 50000 foot electric fence between those two styles and the rest of the universe (ie actually STUPID music, at least in the sense that alot of people actually like it.)

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 11:49 (twenty-three years ago)

i agree with ronan. im reading this as a cred version of stupid (it even needs a nu-spelling, of stoopid), which automatically reveals it to be just more idm/cred stuff. precluding populist dance scenes such as trance (even 'real' stupid dance scenes are recontextualized by cognoscenti, it is always with requisite distance - either through time - breakbeathardcore, or location - bootybass)

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 12:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also sad and all as it may be, I don't think you can have it both ways the way this thread attempts to (at least not all the time), if you like IDM exclusively or pretty much any of the bands mentioned in the first post people will assume you are a snob (especially if you don't do yourselves any favours in this way) and if you like rockefeller skank for example people will do the opposite.

― Gurning fucking moron (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 12:22 (twenty-three years ago)

just to clarify - stupid = stupid, stoopid = dumb. there is a HUGE difference. it has nothing to do with pretentious music (what on earth is pretentious music anyway?). it has nothing to do with whether a lot of people like it or not - isn't whether a lot of people like it often entirely down to marketing / exposure anyway? if the media and radio started to champion atom heart, he could easily appeal to the same audience as fatboy slim (at least with some of his projects).

it's about music that makes you laugh out loud with the sounds they have used without resorting to cheese. it's about sillyness in general but perhaps this was the wrong forum to bring up this stoopid subject as some of you have analysed it into oblivion.

ps - i didn't know the wire had covered this - i always thought dee dee ramone invented 'stoopid'.

― stirmonster, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 13:48 (twenty-three years ago)

It's the without resorting to cheese part I take issue with, I stand by what I've said though to be honest, I don't think it's a massive analysis either, it's right there and pretty straightforward and it works both ways aswell, I wasn't necessarily having a go, I just genuinely think that the above is the way it works, and that cheese not cheese is obviously subject to opinion.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 13:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Having said that I don't find any records particularly funny, Akufen or Fatboy Slim, I think the only artist I can remember laughing at was Green Velvet, "Stranj" and to a lesser extent "Flash".

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:02 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean I didn't set out to axe down the thread, it's just kind of a continuation of the totally different ways we seem to see dance music. Like, to me, the use of the cheese/not cheese distinction is as far away from dance music as it is possible to get.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:05 (twenty-three years ago)

to be fair though ronan your objection to people complaining about cheese is slightly undermined by the fact that you are as "snobby" about trance
people always complain about snobbery but the trouble is that (almost) everyone draws the line somewhere....

stirmonster i am just listening to your cd now,it's exceptional...
if its the fourth what's the story with the other three?
i'd be willing to send you a postal order or something for the others if there were any copies left....

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I know it is. And I've used the phrase loads myself, even about stuff I like. I still think it's all well and good to call stuff you like "stoopid" safe in the knowledge that noone else is ever going to bother.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:13 (twenty-three years ago)

i laugh at music all the time. the plain ridiculousness of some of the ideas people have just plain cracks me up. but then merzbow and whitehouse makes me laugh so i wonder what that says? in the comedy stakes i would say that cheesy music for me is just too slapstick and i don't like slapstick. it really has nothing do with musical snobbery, more to do with my warped sense of humour and mind.

and robin, i think i still have copies of the second and third cd - could you send me your address again and i'll send them off to you.

― stirmonster, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah as I say I wasn't having a go, it's just polar opposites in terms of opinions maybe. I actually started a thread about disliking Akufen, and er.....slapstick is probably the phrase I use. I don't find Rockefeller Skank funny, I actually don't find any music funny as I said except a few lyrical moments by Velvet, I just like dancing to Rockefeller Skank.

I think this thread is interesting though, like the phrase stupid is a burden you have to deal with as a house fan (in whatever sense you get pissed off about people making the same criticisms of stuff you like, i do) constantly, it's always there and so I guess you try and make intellectual arguments and write well and do whatever to convince people that there's nothing about the music that's stupid by default.

But then on the other hand it seems that this thread was about the stigma associated with less popular dance music of snobbery, and I guess it's the reverse of what I said.

Does anyone get me? I basically mean it's like taking sides, calling the music you like intelligent to stop people calling it stupid vs calling the music you like stupid to stop people calling you a snob.

Er.....there, most people probably don't give a shit about the criticisms which are tied to the genres they like but I constantly seem to.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:30 (twenty-three years ago)

i motion that the adjective "cheesy" be banned from discussions of music forthwith.

― michael wells (michael w.), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:44 (twenty-three years ago)

and promoted in discussions of food.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

on another thread ages ago I said "I can't help but feel sometimes that we're all a stupid bunch of clowns".

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:50 (twenty-three years ago)

is cheesy smegma still ok though?

― stirmonster, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:51 (twenty-three years ago)

no, ronan, we're a stoopid bunch of clowns.

― michael wells (michael w.), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 14:57 (twenty-three years ago)

cheesy smegma was never ok.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 15:01 (twenty-three years ago)

well, if we take the thread a different way, perhaps the way twitch was intending it to take, then i'd say global goon when hes on form, afx also (particularly in mike'n'rich guise)

i think a lot of what is termed IDM is 'stoopid' in this way, or, at least fun. the rephlex and warp parties ive been to havent been chin strokey in the slightest but actually a lot of fun. so, maybe that. cylob? dmx krew?

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 15:14 (twenty-three years ago)

The Wire took the word and riffed on it using the Ramones as example #1 and [equivalent of Limp Bizkit - actually I think maybe Zappa's titty-obsessed tracks!!] as counter-example of 'stupid'. I'm all for people inventing boundaries to fence off the stuff they like from what they don't (still the only "HUGE difference" I see here) - it makes for entertaining writing - but I don't think it holds up much.

Gareth is OTM about SDM the way you meant it - 95% of Rephlex releases qualify and all the micro-music stuff too.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.thewire.co.uk/out/9909_2th.htm

(was biba kopf)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 17:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Are Blechtum from Blecdom (or whatever guise) 'stoopid'?

― Cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 19:09 (twenty-three years ago)

hee hee - yr wrong tom, the difference isn't HUGE, it's

huge!

― stirmonster, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 19:10 (twenty-three years ago)

No it's Hooj

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 21:03 (twenty-three years ago)

that's ver good.

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 6 February 2003 13:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I vote for Apollo 440 as the downright stoopidest "DM" act.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Thursday, 6 February 2003 15:07 (twenty-three years ago)

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