Does rap count as REAL music?

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I often say that rap isn't real music. I mean, it's just talking and yelling. I hate it a lot. It makes no sense.

― RSPMJLGH (Piano Man), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:11 (twenty-two years ago)

You are so wise. No one here has anything to teach you. So I suggest that no one try.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, Kogan, you ruined it! I was hoping this would go completely unanswered forever.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:23 (twenty-two years ago)

FK in trollbait shocker!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I should know better. Call me codependent at heart.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:35 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe that's why I like country. But it probably has more to do with VH1 1988-91.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, country is just singing and music and hats and stuff. I hate it. It makes too much sense.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:44 (twenty-two years ago)

But I'll go home now.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree it's a load of bollocks.

― Zoot (paul R), Sunday, 16 February 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Never mind the bollocks, here's talking & shouting!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 16 February 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"Cris" stands for "Cristal", RSPMJLGH - it does make sense.

― naked as sin (naked as sin), Sunday, 16 February 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

RSPMJLGH, how old are you? 70?

― Gerald Wang, Sunday, 16 February 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

People, people, PLEASE! Perhaps we are being too judgemental! After all, there is the distinct possibility that he actually does like hip-hop but is a poor speller and is in fact posting his objections to rape. And really, rape isn't very good at all.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Sunday, 16 February 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

If only rape was 'just talking and yelling'.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Sunday, 16 February 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

http://thedeadites.net/imgs/chknbr2.jpg

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Sunday, 16 February 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Frank, I think I love you. How old are you? Do you have a steady job?

― Cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 16 February 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

But is Fluxus real music?

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 16 February 2003 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

NO, Ringo Starr Paul McCartney John Lennon George Harrison. I'm 13.

― RSPMJLGH (Piano Man), Sunday, 16 February 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Is this question really still being asked in 2003?!

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Monday, 17 February 2003 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

13 year olds use italics tags!? it took me years to learn to do that! /jealousy

― Dan I., Monday, 17 February 2003 04:13 (twenty-two years ago)

why put Ringo first?

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 17 February 2003 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Rap only counts as real music when if it's done by white people. Otherwise yeah it's a bunch of crap.

― Millar (Millar), Monday, 17 February 2003 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Rap only counts as real music when and if it's done by white people. Otherwise yeah it's a bunch of crap.

― Millar (Millar), Monday, 17 February 2003 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

STUPID STUPID STUPID ARRRRGH
*quits*

― Millar (Millar), Monday, 17 February 2003 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

By definition, if a song doesn't have a melody, then it's not music. However, not all rap songs lack a melody, and conversely not all melody-less songs are rap songs.

Either way, even if something isn't "music" it can still be considered "art" as long as it gets an emotional/intellectual/etc. response from the listener.

― Curtis Stephens, Monday, 17 February 2003 04:32 (twenty-two years ago)

what matronly piano teacher still defines music by melody?

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 17 February 2003 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not just about melody, it's a combination of melody and rhythm. E.g., a six-year-old banging randomly on a piano--while it does create distinct notes/harmonies (however dissonant) it does not have a distinct rhythm and thus is not "music."

― Curtis Stephens, Monday, 17 February 2003 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that I'm comparing rap with a six-year-old banging on a piano.

― Curtis Stephens, Monday, 17 February 2003 04:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Ringo's my favorite

― RSPMJLGH (Piano Man), Monday, 17 February 2003 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Ringo sucks

― Sean M. Hall (Shawn M. Haul), Monday, 17 February 2003 05:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that I'm comparing rap with a six-year-old banging on a piano.

Biz Markie to thread!

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 February 2003 07:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is a 13-year-old into The Beatles? When I was 13 I was into Marillion (well, one album) and Guns N Roses. The Beatles? Man, boring...

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

All the other 13-year olds are mainlining steroids and having group sex to Clipse records. That's why he's so pissed off.

― Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 17 February 2003 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

We could chip in together to buy him a bottle of cider and a Helly Hanson jacket.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 February 2003 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

it's good to see 13 year olds taking an interest in real music. for something a bit more contemporary, start with the most recent albums by stereophonics and jamiroquai, and work backwards from there.

― andy paltridge (andy), Monday, 17 February 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh. My. God. Like that's gonna help a 13-year-old? Or anyone!

I'm very keen to know quite what constitutes 'unreal' music? Is it liek theoretical numbers or parallell universes? Are we talking metaphysical cosmology re; hip hop/dance/anything not made using guitars?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

unreal music = making speeches over drum machines.

more forward thinking artists like toploader and jamiroquai have melded funk grooves to REAL songs, and racous guitar work.

― andy paltridge (andy), Monday, 17 February 2003 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

that must've been an unbearably hilarious 7 minutes before you posted again, hall

― zemko (bob), Monday, 17 February 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Andy are you a fascist?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i've come across some obnoxious remarks on ILM, but none more so than your fascist accusation, "Hall". I can't think of anything more fascistic than discouraging youngsters from getting into real music.

― andy paltridge (andy), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't think of anything more fascistic than encouraging kids to forgoe entire areas of wonderful, vibrant, exciting, rewarding and artistically vallid music and culture in favour of watered-down pallid imitations thereof.

NB; I must not feed trolls.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

A troll? Hardly. I've had great success in the past using lyrics to illustrate my points, so I'll just let Mr. Washbourne take over from here...

"Let the people know, let the people know the way
And when it's time to go let the people show,
Let the people show the way

Living high,
Pushing back the boundaries with a smile"

Let the people know, indeed...

― andy paltridge (andy), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Aye, like Hitler at Nuremburg let them know that gassing Jews was fun. I don't agree with you at all re; the 'real'ness vs 'unreal'ness of rap/hip hop music, and I doubt that many other people on ILM will agree with you either. In fact I find your attitude small-minded and faintly scary. Encouraging kids to believe that certain types of music are unvalid and unworthy when you've clearly got little or no understanding or appreciation of them (nor even any kind of objective magnanimity [or even just an attempt at showing magnanimity for the sake of fairness and open-mindedness even if you don't actually hold it yourself]) is a foul, foul, foul thing to do; "this is TRUE and this is FALSE and there are no reasons it is just SO and to debate it or try and understand it is WRONG." I hate that, I hate that so much. Every fibre of my being is taut and on fire. Uergh.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

"You check this out
My partner Chuck D
Got all the ozs of knowledge, wisdom and understanding
A, yo Chuck
Let 'em know why you the
Prophet of rap
Kick that shit Chuck"

Public Enemy - What Kind A Power We Got?

indeed...

― willem (willem), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

[Q-Tip]
Back in the days when I was a teenager
Before I had status and before I had a pager
You could find the Abstract listening to hip hop
My pops used to say, it reminded him of be-bop
I said, well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles
The way that Bobby Brown is just ampin like Michael
Its all expected, things are for the looking
If you got the money, Quest is for the booking
Come on everybody, let's get with the fly modes
Still got room on the truck, load the back boom
Listen to the rhymes, to get a mental picture
Of this black man, black woman venture
Why do I say that, cuz I gotta speak the truth man
Doing what we feel for the music is the proof and
Planted on the ground, the act is so together
Bonafied strong, you need leverage to sever
The unit, yes, the unit, yes, the unit called the jazz is
We deliver it each year on the street for the beat cuz
You can find it on the rack in your record store(store)
If you get the record, then your thoughts are adored and appreciated
Cuz we're ever so glad we made it
We work hard, so we gotta thank God
Dishin out the plastic, do the dance till you spastic
If you dis...it gets drastic
Listen to the rhymes, cuz its time to make gravy
If it moves your booty, then shake, shake it baby
All the way to Africa a.k.a. The Motherland (uh)
Stick out the left, then I'll ask for the other hand
That's the right hand, Black Man (man)
Only if you was noted as my man (man)
If I get the credit, then I'll think I deserve it
If you fake moves, don't fix your mouth to word it
Get in the zone of positivity, not negativity
Cuz we gotta strive for longevity
If you botch up, what's in that (ass) (what?)
A pair of Nikes, size ten-and-a-half (come on, come on)

Chorus:

We gotta make moves
Never, ever, ever could we fake moves (come on, come on) (4X)

You gotta be a winner all the time
Can't fall prey to a hip hop crime
With the dope raps and dope tracks for you for blocks
From the fly girlies to the hardest of the rocks
Musically the Quest, is on the rise
We on these Excursions so you must realize
Hip hop continually, about the Zulu
If you don't like it, get off the Zulu tip
So what could you do in the times which exist
You can't fake moves on your brother or your sis
But if your sis is a (bitch), brother is a jerk
Leave 'em both alone and continue with your work
Whatever it may be into this society
Everything is fair, at least that how it seems to me
You must be honest and true to the next
Don't be phony and expect one not to flex
Especially if you rhyme, you have to live by the pen
Your man is your man, then treat him like your friend
All it is, is the code of the streets
So listen to the knowledge being dropped over beats
Beats that are hard, beats that are funky
It could get you hooked like a crackhead junkie
What you gotta do to is know that the Tribe's in this sphere
The Abstract Poet, prominent like Shakespeare

Chorus (repeat until end)

Edgar Allan Poe, it don't stop (uh!)

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

"Society breeds hatred in your heart, but baby
It's time to make a brand new start
Life's everchanging in your eyes
But the time for rearranging will arise"

Class dismissed...

― andy paltridge (andy), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

My eyes are really hot at this point, but I'm OK.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

marcello strikes again!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 February 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Hot eyes? Perhaps it's because you're seeing the light at last...

And no, I'm not Marcello. I'm Andy Paltridge.

― andy paltridge (andy), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, yes, fuck it. I was just in the middle of my hip hop epiphany for the last few weeks, but no, you're right. I wasn't actually enjoying those records at all. I must nip out and get some Jamiroquai and Toploader. I've been missing out. The spirit of Funkadelic is alive and well and living in Jason Wasboard's curls, and not, as previously thought, in Edan's "drum machine and talking." Fuck me. Remind me to go to church this Sunday too.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Marcello's best troll yet!

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I've yet to see this side of Marcello yet, at least not knowingly. Marcello, if it is you, you are an infuriating bugger and you caught me so i guess I owe you a pint or something. If not I hope this Paltridge chap chokes on his XTC records.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

as long as you learn from it its OK nick.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

With your help I think I can get through it, Julio. Together we can beat this thing.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

you will have to accept that i'm not marcello...i'm just defending true music. is it so wrong?

― andy paltridge (andy), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not fighting your battles for you (actually I'm in the middle of preparing for a meeting so you're on your own).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 February 2003 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

unreal music = making speeches over drum machines.
more forward thinking artists like toploader and jamiroquai have melded funk grooves to REAL songs, and racous guitar work.

Marcello or otherwise, this is the funniest thing I've read in ages.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 February 2003 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(It's not Marcello.)

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

He's real? Wow.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

(I didn't say that, Nick.)

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Aye, I nearly made a point along those lines. I shall rephrase;

There's a possibility that this a real person voicing actual opinions? Wow.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

''(It's not Marcello.)''

how do you know this tom?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

(Differences in comma rules between the US and UK combined with the subject matter of this thread could have led me to turn Julio's comment into a full-blown FITE!)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

(aka "how do you know this [uncle] tom?")

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

wtf?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(I could explain but it would be easier and faster to ingore me, as I'm not angry and I'm not adding any value to the conversation beyond making myself giggle in theory.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan, I like you, I ain't gonna 'ingore' you. I'm not a beastie.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn my luck. C'mon, who's gonna virtually eviscerate me?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Andy Paltridge?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I SHOULD BE SO LUCKY.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Julio -

1/ There has never ever been a Marcello character/alias which hasn't either gone into strange phonetic accentry or referenced improv acts within its first half-hour of existence.

2/ I can check IP addresses :)

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

''('Differences in comma rules between the US and UK combined with the subject matter of this thread could have led me to turn Julio's comment into a full-blown FITE!')''

HAHA! Dan I do not anything abt grammar so no one would win as I wouldn't understand what you're on abt.

''2/ I can check IP addresses :)''

Oh, I want you to tell me who it is tomorrow tom.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

In US grammar there would have been a comma in between "that" and "tom" (sic), letting the reader know that the sentence was being addressed to "tom" rather than "that tom" being the direct object.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(Can we pretend I didn't write that last post? I AM BORING AND SAD.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha!

― Nelson Mutz (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 February 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"Never mind the bollocks, here's talking & shouting!"

BAhahahahahahahaha

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 February 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

You guys are all a bunch of assholes. I am very into metal and alternative rock, yet i am open to new ways of music. If you cant accept music for what it is, then u need a reality check. And can u stick to the issues here? speaking about 13 year olds and their taste of music is really weird. RAP IS NOT CRAP ITS A FORM OF EXPRESSION~

― Veronica, Tuesday, 30 March 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Resurrecting a year-old thread to call everyone an asshole. C/D?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Classic!!!!!!!!!!!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

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