Groups that are taken for granted

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Inspired by listening to a Charlatans album yesterday and realising that people hardly ever mention them in lists, rankings, favourites, memories, whether positively or negatively. I can't even recall seeing anything about them whatsoever in ILM.

Now, I stress that I'm not a particular fan of the Charlies, but I do like them and can only deduce that as they have released quite a few albums - successful but never poll-winningly and zeitgeist-huggingly so - and been around for a few years, they are taken for granted. Good for a 7 or 8 out of 10 in the NME every two years, good for a live review that says a bit apologetically how the world is better off for their existence (in lieu of something else to say) but are sneered at elsewhere.

Is this true ? Or not.

And who else fits this bill ? Supergrass ? St Etienne ? Even former critical faves like PE ?

― darren (darren), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The album I was listening to was "Us and Us Only", incidentally.

― darren (darren), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 12:48 (twenty-two years ago)

problem with the Charlies is that they were doomed to be the underdogs. Always outranked by The Roses, the Primals, the Oasises and yet not necessarily any worse. I guess it was cos they were pretty faceless apart from Tim Burgess. They never caused a fuss like the Gallaghers or took as many drugs as Shauny R, just trudged on making nice albums. That said, they did headline Reading festival not long ago - a pretty prestigious event considering all things.

I like Us & Us Only a lot too even though I am by no means a Charlatans fan. I love "Impossible".

I don't agree that St. Etienne were taken for granted though and Supergrass did have their day.

― dog latin, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't take the Charlatans for granted at all. I think they're actively atrocious (with a couple of exceptions) and wish they'd go away.

But I know what you mean - bands who put an album out to modest sales and general shrugs and just keep on doing it. Bands you can't imagine being anyone's favourite. Can't think of any though.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i just got Tellin' Stories a few weeks back, and while it's the only title i've heard since Some Friendly; i thought it was right on track. True, some groups overshadowed them, but they've stayed the course and still seem to be able to put together a descent album.

--- and Supergrass has still got it.

― christoff (christoff), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Supergrass is a great choice. By taken for granted, I'm guessing you mean sort've somewhat overlooked....acknowledged, but not paid their proper due, despite their dependability and consistency. By this definition, I'd also cite the Violent Femmes, but there have been times I've thought they should hang it up.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

My theory is it's cos the Charlies had such boring album covers. The most interesting one was the one with the bananas on the front. And that sucked too!

Bluetones? Cast? Boo Radleys?

― dog latin, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll say Mojave 3, and Neil Halstead in general.

― derrick (derrick), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Gorky's, as ever..

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Good calls one and all - with the exception of dear Dog Latin's last few selections, as I'd say that the Bluetones and Cast, for better or for worse, have wound up being symbolic of (repectively) clunking Britpop and cheery druggy Dadrock.

Tom reaffirmed my point really well, saying that it's those who are just left to get on with it and you never really see dissed a lot. Having thought about it a bit more, I think the 'Grass have to be the ultimate contemporary example, certainly in Britain.

― darren (darren), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I love their version of "Alabama Bound".

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Teenage Fanclub?

― Mil, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

the Kinks invented everything.

― autovac (autovac), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes they did! So did Television.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Would it be all-to-predictable for the nickalicious to say Fishbone?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't stand supergrass. and i could live without the charlies.

i'll say bluetones and teenage fanclub.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Never liked nor understood the appeal of Teenage Fanclub.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

teenage fanclub get a fair bit of media praise, so maybe they're a poor choice. the bluetones only had one good album, but they're good for knocking out the odd swooning indie-pop gem.

better examples - the eels, for one. always a touch undervalued. low, maybe, although they get plenty of praise on ILM. But in the press, they always seem to get small, positive reviews, and then get forgotten by the end of the year.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Eels are exactly the band I was going to post here. Very few, ahem,
"alternative" bands are guaranteed top 40 acts with as little media attention as E and the boys.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

some other names that come to mind:

laika, matthew sweet, dEUS, posies, ash, lemonheads

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

taken for granted vs. underrated? what's the diff?

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread proves that I am the ONLY ILMer who actively champions the Charlatans (UK). Their first album is one of the best albums of the 90s, FAR better than the self-titled Stone Roses album.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

You had me up till "FAR better than the self-titled Stone Roses album," Dan. I like them a lot though. Tellin' Stories has lots of good memories for me, and "Only One I Know" and "Weirdo" still make me want to dance. And Us and Only Us was totally underrated (but not taken for granted).

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread proves that I am the ONLY ILMer who actively champions the Charlatans (UK).

I'll quietly champion them, though maybe not to the extent you're suggesting. Chris Barrus and Matt Maxwell are fans as well, but I know that the Prisoners had them saying the Charlatans were unneeded the other day...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread proves that I am the ONLY ILMer who actively champions the Charlatans (UK). Their first album is one of the best albums of the 90s, FAR better than the self-titled Stone Roses album.
-- Dan Perry (djperr...), February 19th, 2003.

Funniest thing Dan has ever said. EVER.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I got 'telling stories' out of the record library once. I played half of it before I decided i had enough. thankfully i don't think I've heard much else from them.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Question - If REM split up tommorow would anyone have anything to say about it? They even take themselves for granted these days.

― Beyonce (Lynskey), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Melting Pot (Greatest Hits) is a fabulous album although I don't think I could say I really like any of the Charlatans' proper albums.

― Vinnie (vprabhu), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, REM and Pearl Jam kind of fit the category nowadays. They still get minor press attention with each new release but I'd say most wouldn't care if either band broke up.

― Vinnie (vprabhu), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Shed 7 own. Are they still going?

― Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

In my experience, I seem to be the only human on Earth who think all of Pearl Jam's best material came after Ten.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

"Black" is on _Ten_ = not all of Pearl Jam's best material came after _Ten_.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn you Dan! (translation = "agreed")

I still say that, in America at least, they are very very much taken for granted, in particular all their releases that came after Ten. I contend that the folks who say "Pearl Jam were no good after their first album" either A) have never heard "Present Tense" or "Who You Are" or "Do The Evolution" or "Corduroy" or a variety of other post-Ten super-goodies, or B) have some strange "must-be-like-everyone-else" thing they are trying to adhere to in denying all of their latter-day material.

Or I might be wrong.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan is right (let us also not forget "Oceans" and "Release").

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

see, the charlatans have made a number of really good songs but never an over the top great album. I think maybe they have stayed true to their vision maybe a bit too much, you know, since their 3rd album. But they haven't really made any terrible records either, if you like the type of stuff they do. Personally i have most of their albums and saw them live on their first tour of the US i think (hence the 1st two records are my favorites), but I wouldn't say i would "champoin" them. Shed 7 had some big hits in the UK, right? but they suffer the same problems, to a greater extent. Cast for their part must be the most maligned band on ILM, and they are/were quite silly, but there were actually a couple good tracks on their first record, dad rock and all.

― g (graysonlane), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"impossible" is a great charlatans song

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned is right, i'm a fan of the first couple albums (but i don't own any Stone Roses, oddly enough). _Up to Our Hips_ didn't move me to repeated listening once it came out, but who knows, it might have aged better than i thought.

As for my comment about the Prisoners rendering them superfluous, i'll stand by that. Particulary if the Prisoners album we're using as a yardstick is the _Shine on Me_ EP (which i think is the last thing they recorded as a group, but i could easily be wrong about that.) Huge garage-inspired pop. Huge, i tell you.

― Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Thursday, 20 February 2003 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick: I agree, their best songs post-date
ten - I'd say all their albums are equally
good, although No Code and Yield have
their boring moments.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

the fastbacks always struck me as a band that should have been huge.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I think 'taken for granted' should mean 'people used to love them but though they are still making great records, people don't talk about them much cause they've been around for ages'. So, not Shed 7 or half the things on this thread (not just for personal taste reasons, just cause I would imagine most people never liked them in the first place).

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Or, to put it another way, groups that, were their latest album their first, would get a lot more attention.

The Fall?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I have just noticed that Shed 7 was a joke, but I am presuming that the Bluetones and sodding Cast weren't.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 20 February 2003 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll go a bit further than Matt does with the Charlatans. I'll make a case for them all the way up to Telling Stories and specifically, Between 10th And 11th is in my top 5 of the entire 1990s and as far as I'm concerned make the entire Stone Roses catalog irrelevent.

Martin Blunt is the unsung bass guitar hero of the 90s. The fun connection is that he and the Charlatans drummer were in a band with Prisoners' mainman Graham Day for a brief time. Now that I would have liked to hear.

― Chris Barrus (xibalba), Thursday, 20 February 2003 07:15 (twenty-two years ago)

SEMISONIC!!!!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 20 February 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Good debate, i too liked the Charletans at one stage and then all of a sudden, gone from my world.
My sister gave me a their live album last year for my birthday, which was, like most "live albums" (I love that term) unlistenableto.
Still I think I'm gonna relisten to the stuff I used to like and see what it was I liked...

― kevin brady (groeuvre), Thursday, 20 February 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

**Martin Blunt is the unsung bass guitar hero of the 90s. The fun connection is that he and the Charlatans drummer were in a band with Prisoners' mainman Graham Day for a brief time. Now that I would have liked to hear**

Blunt was also in the utterly fantastic Makin' Time in the mid 80's. Super mod-soul pop - great fun. Unlike the wretched, wretched Charlatans.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 20 February 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

the charlies might be good enough to be filed under "good singles band".

the only one i know, how high, north country boy, impossible, love is the key, you're so pretty.

not bad at all. but my attempts to get through an entire album (usually tellin' stories) have not had much success.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 20 February 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Just realized that Eleventh Dream Day would be another candidate for the "taken for granted" category. Never been disappointed by any of their albums, though they've basically been forgotten these days.

― Chris Barrus (xibalba), Friday, 21 February 2003 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

BUSTA RHYMES!!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 21 February 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Souled American.

― hstencil, Friday, 21 February 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

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