Article Response: Pop Music Focus Group IV

Hmmm, my anonymised moderating friend seems to have spelt "high" L-O- W. A curious lapse for one usually so accurate.

Great job, Mike!!

Yes, I've no idea what could've possibly gotten into your anonymized friend. OH WAIT YES IT IS THAT BOB THE BUILDER IS A CUNT, Mr. "would I actually listen to this choice probably not". Ha.

I would surmise that Bob's 4.03 (which places him squarely betwix best and worst) is indicative of a sharp divide between the LAND OF FREEDOM (from Bob the Builder) and the LAND OF BOB THE BUILDER AND BAD COOKING. Only there are defectors. Al is welcome in God's land whenever he feels the need to escape the iron heel of oppression.

I have had a look at the list of records and as far as I can make out, most of them are rubbish. It can't have been much fun having to listen to that list.

Asking "Well then who was it? We must find the culprit" in response to It Wasn't Me makes that person my god.

The pages look pretty Mike.

Out of curiosity, which ones on the list aren't rubbish, Pinefox?

As far as I can see, only one candidate: 'I Am A Man of Constant Sorrow'. I'm assuming that this is a rootsy cover off the Coen Bros film, in which case it's probably OK by me. But perhaps it's actually some kind of silly remix, in which case that's probably rubbish too, from my POV.

There were several versions of "Man of Constant Sorrow" in the film and on the soundtrack, and the one listed was the most popular vocal version of it (others were instrumental). And yes...it was probably the best of the bunch. There were some other moments of okay-ness as well. At the very least, I'm happy that my burn on Shaggy makes me Ally's god...at least for a few seconds.

Jesus I'm funny.

Yeah, only for a few seconds, until I realized that Mike finally, finally, FINALLY used my quotes as pull quotes! Tom never did that. Now Mike is my god.

The conversation may have happened before; if so, feel free to point me towards it.

Pinefox, what is it about the other songs you dislike? More to the point, what type of stuff do you listen to now? What do you look for in music? So far, my overall impression is that you dislike everything except for the Smiths (and now imitation bluegrass).

Oh, and who said the thing about Destiny's CHild becoming the Manics for the R&B set? I said that as soon as I read the lyrics to Survivor (the single, not the tossing album): Beyonce has developed quite a Generation Terrorists-era Richey persona. She's going to start cutting words into her arm next - I mean, is there any reason for Survivor to be so fucking wordy?

I think Josh secretly loves Bob the Builder, but was disappointed he took the place of the Teletubbies in the hearts of British schoolchildren.

Josh: "Don't mention Bob the Builder! Bob the Builder is a DIRTY WHORE!!!" hee hee hee

Bob the Builder makes me sad for English people.

A fantastic read. My greatest regret in years is being too lackadaisical to take part. Fabulous stuff. Wouldn't have called the number one and number none any different myself.

Dan, how could you forget Pinefox's love for LLOYD COLE?

Ah. That could be because I am so blindingly indifferent to Lloyd Cole that it's not funny. His name will cause me to avoid a thread, not through dislike, but because I don't know enough about hime to comment and I have absolutely no desire to learn more.

This is a long-winded way of saying, "My bad."

Wow, what a great-looking site-thing! Really nicely put together!

Dan P - of Harvard!! - asked about what I like and don't like. I hope that his question was meant in a pleasant, comradely spirit. It would be nice to think so.

Like many other people, I am forever banging on about things I like on this forum. They are no secret. Just read the posts (if you want; or don't, if you don't want).

What is it about the other stuff (on the pop-chart list) that I dislike? Most simply, I suppose, the way they sound is ugly to my ears: garish, unattractive, unpleasant, grating. I know that most folk here don't share that view; but I hope that it is as acceptable to air it as to say that those records are exciting or beautiful. You might say that these adjectives don't get us very far - and you might be right. But then, maybe I don't want to get very far with those records. Maybe I - or they - have already gone far enough.

It may be interesting to note that I like almost as many of the songs as the pinefox does, though of course I am a pop-tart next to him (I bet he could beat that darn Jyoti Mishra out of the lowest-avg-rating spot). Yet we still seem to be worlds apart, and Dan never asks me why I don't like all these bad songs. Hmmm. (Of course, I don't say much about them.)

A great looking page. Everyone who gave Destiny's Child low scores deserves free oral sex. Missy, you are wonderful.

28 songs out of 33 have a failing average score. Apparently, what "we live in a golden age for chart pop" really means is "I love a few songs here and there and everything else sucks big freemason dick". Mind you, the non-ILMers seemed to have graded even more harshly.

Most of the songs picked sucked ass, sorry.

Most of the songs were good was the problem. If I'd participated, I would've given everything a 7, except for "Get Your Freak On" and "Clint Eastwood", which would've gotten a 2 and a 10 w/joker, respectively. Cuz I got sunshine in a bag.

That's my least likely way to describe you, Otis.

They were all awful. Bob the goddamned Builder, jesus christ.

Oh, I also liked that song where the boyband told the girl to get a Backstreet guy, that would've gotten an 8.

i) re mjh on outkast:

unrequited love is the only thing that matters to me.

ii) "thank you" is sweet and pretty for something that comes on the radio. "stan" is narcissistic, flow-less tripe.

iii) pinefox: i was being pleasant and comradely when i asked you similar questions on the sonic youth thread. you are in fact one of my favourite posters. i am really curious what qualities you look for in music and what qualities turn you off some of the things you hate. i find it interesting to learn what other people look for in music. i have learned and understood new things that way. i don't ask you, josh, because your tastes seem much less specific. also because you generally explain in depth why you dislike the things you dislike.

Focus group scores are based on an unrepresentative sample. Also of course, there are a handful of posters who give everything 0 to show how discerning they are, whereas nobody gives everything 10 (I was secretly hoping somebody would this time).

Bob The Builder is jolly glam-rock with a pleasant animated character singing over the top. Big up the Crouch End massive.

Sundar: sometimes I wonder if we can ever get much further than what Tom E said on the Death of Pop thread - that he followed his ears. In other words, you like what you like and you don't like what you don't like... why? Cos you like the sound of what you like, and you don't like the sound of what you don't like.

Put like that, this sounds banal and tautological. It is no slur on Tim Hopkins, I hope, to say that I have partly picked up this line of reasoning (if it is reasoning - no, it's hardly reasoning) from him. (I don't think TH's opinions banal - anything but.)

Tim H would probably go further and qualify things by saying something like: 'But what I like and don't like is conditioned by hundreds of factors. It is not a matter of what The Unique Individual Ear, biologically, likes - it is about the sum total of an individual's complex biographical development and social context(s), and the effect of all this on one's taste'. In other words, we should be aware that our taste is not simple 'our own' but is in some degree pre-formed for us in myriad ways. If Tim H said this, I would - again - agree with him. If he didn't say it, I would say it anyway.

But still, would it get us very far? Does saying 'my taste is historically and culturally conditioned to be x' give you any more insight than saying 'my taste is x'? Maybe it becomes another tautology. If everyone's taste is equally conditioned, then no need to specify the fact, which - so to speak - cancels all the way through.

I am trying to get at an answer to your question re. what I like and why I like it. What I seem to be saying is: a) there is What I Like - I can make a list if you like (but probably unnecesary after many ILM posts). b) there is Why I Like It - but Why I Like It just = the facts (the million facts) of my life. (And my point, or my guess, is that this would be the same for everyone. I am not trying to make a case about me being different: precisely the reverse.)

To a large extent, I have therefore come to the conclusion that there is no point arguing about taste. (It is often best to avoid arguing about lots of things anyway, if possible.) At least, we shouldn't imagine that by doing it, we're going to change anyone's mind. (Probably the reverse.) That doesn't mean it's not worthwhile articulating tastes, though - I mean, talking, or writing, about how you like things. Is it worth talking about how we DON'T like things? Maybe, maybe not. But it is hard to avoid it when you are surrounded (as almost all of us are on ILM; and often in life) by people going on about things you can't stand.

Maybe try this:

Listen to your ears, certainly. But that's only an injunction to not let your preconceived ideas about what you should or shouldn't like (or could or couldn't like) be - in some sense - "too binding," or act too much like rules about what it's possible for you to like. In my experience those "rules" are only nominally rules, easily broken and stretched by the wide variety of music and by changes in your life that have occurred unbeknownst to you. Another way of getting at this might be to say that you have a much greater capacity for appreciating music than you might think based on your own self- knowledge.

Can someone send me an MP3 of Bob the builder
or tell me how to misspell it so i can hear it on napster
With all this acrimony , it would be an interesting to form my opinon .

Josh, one reason why I haven't asked you why you didn't like a lot of the songs is because I've read posts/emails from you about many of these songs. I haven't done that with Pinefox and I was genuinely courteous.

Pinefox, I apologize if my question came across as confrontational; it certainly wasn't meant to be. A lot of it was laziness (because there are SO MANY posts archived on this board, the idea of scanning them to get an idea of the stuff you've said you like and dislike is daunting), but mostly it was because I enjoyed a good number of the songs that were on the focus group and I wanted to get a better sense of where you were coming from in your dislike of them. (The fact that I then ran away for the weekend and wasn't able to respond didn't help.)

Anthony: Tried Morpheus yet?! You must!

then i shall

In other words, you like what you like and you don't like what you don't like... why? Cos you like the sound of what you like, and you don't like the sound of what you don't like.

of course i understand this part. it is, however, possible to move one step from this and observe that, say, "i like singers who enunciate" or "i like music that privileges melody over rhythm," etc. one could perhaps go further and recognize that "i like x because it represents/signifies this and this and this," etc. if it annoys you to be asked to do this, then don't, by all means. since you seem quite ready to proclaim your distaste for things you don't like, i was just curious. that's all.

ilm is all about arguing about taste. right?