musings re: aphex twin/radiohead/nme

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the nme opined on kid a's release that radiohead's appropriation of aphex/autechre's sounds was misplaced because those acts "operate OUTSIDE the music industry" as opposed to radiohead, which begged some explanation IMHO.

firstly - is it wrong to appropriate sounds from another artist when you operate in a completely different way? can't think of a convincing reason why not - the NME possibly operating under a feeling that the 'head are prostituting aphex twin's sounds by bringing them on a big rock tour. this listener enjoyed both the warp acts AND radiohead.

also - to what extent is aphex/autechre's operation "outside the music industry" a pretence. they certainly like to emphasise the different ways of working.

radiohead - go into studio for marathon session where they aim towards creation of An Album which they will then tour.

aphex - music making an organic part of working day, releasing it in an album format is incidental to the whole process (or so he/some would have us believe - do you buy it? is he aiming towards An Album or A Release in the same way Radiohead are, only creating it with a more relaxed work ethic?)

the loudest death knell for the NME was sounded when they said in the kid a article "making experimental music is the easy way out". possibly they were only guilty of poor phrasing here. maybe what they meant to say was "radiohead excel at more orthodox songwriting, and IN THIS CASE, making experimental music may have just been the easy way out". I wouldn't have agreed, but i could understand where they were coming from. the way they phrased it, it sounded like they were saying any experimentation was a waste of time (to be fair, when blur released the overdone 13 album, my reacton was "write some more classic pop songs, albarn, it's what you do best")

also, how much of kid a actually does sound like a Warp record? Certainly not Optimistic, In Limbo and a good few others. Although this is debatable. and perhaps we have discussed this enough elsewhere.

Opinions on any of the points raised?:

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 24 February 2003 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

omg what year is this

chaki (chaki), Monday, 24 February 2003 10:51 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry i was following that train of thought all weekend and i had to write it down. sorry! ignore this thread!

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 24 February 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

nonono i was jk-ing

chaki (chaki), Monday, 24 February 2003 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

everyone makes far too big a deal about 'Kid A' being all experimental - but when I finally listened to it I was surprised how relatively conventional it did seem (going by the hype i expected something far more unlistenable) and i thought it was pretty good and i always welcome bands like that who want to attempt something different, esp. when they're good enough to pretty much pull it off - surely NME wouldve liked em less if they'd just released a virtual clone of 'ok computer' - i suppose they want them to go back to 'pablo honey' style now

stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 February 2003 11:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Over here in the the states what NME says about anything is pretty much meaningless. So Radiohead used some RD James/Autechre stuff as samples? Again, over here we gen'lly regard Radiohead as nice but kind of wanky prog-rock shit, Pink Floyd for a brand new era. I like "Kid A" much better than "OK Computer" myself, and I think a lot of people here feel the same way.

Aphex Twin, I only know a few things, like the one w/ "Milkman" on it, but it strikes me as some fairly interesting sped-up drumbeats with synthesizer farts and so forth on top, not all that great...and yeah, I frankly do think it's easy to make that kind of music, I've been listening to Autechre and it's nice but isn't it a bit banal at this point? For me, what Squarepusher does is a lot more fun to listen to. Again, maybe this is a difference between the whole crazed insular obsessive English scene, but over here we don't give a shit about the ideology of something or whether or not it's "experimental." Does it sound good, is it funny? Well, they do in New York.

frank p. jones (frank p. jones), Monday, 24 February 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

''For me, what Squarepusher does is a lot more fun to listen to.''

are you mad?!!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 24 February 2003 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

sped-up drumbeats with synthesizer farts and so forth on top

sounds like Squarepusher as much as Aphex

stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 February 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

everyone makes far too big a deal about 'Kid A' being all experimental - but when I finally listened to it I was surprised how relatively conventional it did seem (going by the hype i expected something far more unlistenable)

Replace 'Kid A' with 'Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.' Discuss.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 February 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't really see a problem with radiohead appropriating various sounds from warp,if they like that type of music then you could harldly give out about them trying to make it-in the past they liked rock music and so made their music accordingly
the only question is whether they were successful or not,and i think they were
i don't listen to kid a all that much,and although it does kind of annoy me how much some tracks rip off other artists,(aside from warp,the national anthem sounds like primal scream and how to dissappear sounds like sigur ros)i think they made a fairly good album,and if they were some random band managing to combine warp stuff with more traditional rock i think a lot of cynics/hipsters would have been more receptive to them...
myself,i prefer amnesiac,and have made cynical comments about kid a ripping off people in the past,but overall,it was a good album,and as killian mentions,the nme perhaps treat radiohead differently because of who they are....

robin (robin), Monday, 24 February 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont think its a case of ripping off at all, its impossible to rip off Primal Scream directly for example, given how they just 'rip off'/borrow from everyone else anyway

stevem (blueski), Monday, 24 February 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

well yeah,but i do think the national anthem sounds specifically like primal scream,rather than just having the same influences...

robin (robin), Monday, 24 February 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i've never dug squarepusher, possibly because i'm into more ambient/hypnotic stuff, whereas his more manic stuff is not quite to my liking.

the national anthem sounds a bit like blood money, although it's possibly a case of the two bands sharing similar influences.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 24 February 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The National Anthem was recorded before Blood Money was released in any way, shape, or form. And How to Disappear Completely was written before Sigur Rós even existed (also, the string arrangement is much better/more interesting than any of the soundtrack schmaltz that Sigur Rós have the tendency to layer on their tracks).

Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 05:14 (twenty-two years ago)

hey frank: thanks for speaking for an entire country, nay possibly even the whole continent if your tone is to be believed. none of us 'over here' like experimental music. only coldplay... hours and hours of coldplay...

Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 05:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I would have figured Coldplay as the name of an electronic dance guy or something.

tom (different one), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 05:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Over here in the the states what NME says about anything is pretty much meaningless... Again, over here we gen'lly regard Radiohead as nice but kind of wanky prog-rock shit,

Well, you're going out on a tiny, trembling limb when you speak for the whole US. I think your whole post is a bit of projection. Some people -- many people, including myself -- listen to a lot of this music, and understand the ways in which it's hard to make well, and "but over here we don't give a shit about the ideology of something" is a bald insult to American music listeners, including myself.

But many of us who care do indeed avoid NME. But that's because they suck.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 05:33 (twenty-two years ago)

The National Anthem was recorded before Blood Money was released in any way, shape, or form. And How to Disappear Completely was written before Sigur Rós even existed (also, the string arrangement is much better/more interesting than any of the soundtrack schmaltz that Sigur Rós have the tendency to layer on their tracks).
-- Melissa W (MelCarame...), February 24th, 2003.

Haven't Sigur Ros been around since about 98 though? Agaetis Byrjun (sic) is their second album, is it not? Just the first to be released outside Iceland. Nickalicious will back me up on this - I'm pretty sure he mentioned that he owns it. Any qualms about the string section being better are purely subjective anyway Melissa. As for Blood Money/The National Anthem, they do sound incredibly alike, but I think as kilian says, it's coincidence more than anythign else, much like The Matrix/Dark City arriving at similar times when both had probably been in production (conception through execution to release) for about three years independant of each other. With R/head P/S it's not gonna be a question of years, but rather months. But that still doesn't negate it being serendipitous rather than theivery.

Radiohead nicked all their songs off my brother anyway! I have irrefutable proof! And one day I will reveal it.

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Haven't Sigur Ros been around since about 98 though?
Yeah, and How to Disappear Completely has been around since 96/97.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:03 (twenty-two years ago)

And The National Anthem was recorded in late 98.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, mid 99.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Any qualms about the string section being better are purely subjective anyway Melissa.
One thing that's not subjective is that that the type of arrangements are significantly different.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Thank god we can all now rest easy.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Indeedy. JR wants royalties for No Surprises!

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 09:37 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm...i stand corrected on the national anthem
as for how to disappear,i'm not so sure
i know it was written just after radiohead played ireland in '97 (my first ever gig!)hence the reference to the liffey
but the actual sound,the way it was recorded,could still,as i believe,owe a lot to sigur ros,who as far as i know had at least one album,one ep,and one remix album before aegeathingy came out...
i could be wrong though

robin (robin), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Sigur Ros have been around since 96, at least.

Their first songs are as "Victory Rose", which is what Sigur Ros translates into in English.

jodi shapiro (burun), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Since when does "experimentation" = "appropriation"?

It seemed to me more that Radiohead was getting bored with the way they did things, and felt like trying new things. These new things just happened to bear similarities to things other artists built their sound on. "Appropriation" implies specific thievery, which doesn't seem quite at all what the Radiohead lads were doing, so much as applying their already-honed tastes to new implementations (the same guys with the same ideas playing with new toys, y'know?).

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...
ihate you gays radiohead are the greatest band since the beatles and you all just wankers

john the hopeless farmer, Monday, 15 May 2006 19:45 (nineteen years ago)

ihate you gays radiohead are the greatest band since the beatles and you are all just wankers,Kid A is completely different from anything I've listened before its appearance. I don't even know how to start speaking about it... To begin I think I'll talk a little about my experience with this record. When I heard it for the first time, it didn't sound like Radiohead at all. I even had a dream the night I bought it, in which I bought the wrong album. After listening to it more it started to make me feel something, but I didn't know what at the time. I noticed the whole record is filled with riddles and symbols, like the whole limited edition art and packaging, that I kept looking over and over. It's so mysterious and obscure that sometimes I still feel like it's driving me mad... Its artwork is very cold and distant... I felt as if the songs meant something more. They are very different from one another, but connected with the rest at the same time. Soon I realized they were trying to say something, communicate somehow.

john the hopeless farmer, Monday, 15 May 2006 19:47 (nineteen years ago)

you're the wanker mate

Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Monday, 15 May 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

j/k

Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Monday, 15 May 2006 20:03 (nineteen years ago)

TS: Thom Yorke vs. Chris Martin

fandango (fandango), Monday, 15 May 2006 20:04 (nineteen years ago)


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