Suede's role in music - forgotten greats???

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My fave album of all time is 'Dog Man Star' but whereas once it was often mentioned as a great classic (and - I swear this is true - I've never met anyone who hates it) it seems that time has now began to replace it with bland and boring toss such as Coldplay, The Verve and OK Computer by Radiohead when it comes to 'best albums of all time' lists.

What's the opinions of others here? Are Suede being written out of the picture? NME hardly bothered to cover their comeback and at the risk of being slated new album 'A New Morning' has really grown on me (though I still have to fast wind the pish).

Opinions anyone?

― Calum Robert, Sunday, 2 March 2003 12:11 (twenty-three years ago)

I sincerely hope that in future years "Dog Man Star" is the only record they're remembered for. It's rather good. The rest, on the other hand, are not quite so.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Sunday, 2 March 2003 12:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Suede who?

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 2 March 2003 13:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Just more fallen souls broken on the wheel of the innate reluctance of English ppl to sing without being all fuckin' silly about it. Neither the first or last. Kill 'em all and let the council sort 'em out. I started this post intending to say something nice about them, particularly "So Young". That is beautiful. Then I remembered that idiotic zoo-animal squeak he does at the beginning, for no reason I can fathom, and the dream evaporated. I honestly don't think there's ENOUGH bullying in Brit schools. ("Stay Together" is better than anything on OK Computer, true. OK Suede are better than Radiohead and always will be even if they all die tomorrow and Radiohead releases a record a day for the next 50 years, all different. Radiohead is all about 'becoming' as opposed to 'being'. They don't have 'it'. It's almost exhausting hearing the gears grind in their head with how hard they're trying. They've got the Brit paralysis of always attempting to negotiate the 'right' course [ie not the 'pleasurable' or 'necessary' one] even at the submolecular level. They probably think of their own records as 'pretty good, but with areas to be worked on'. Which is not rock, at all. Or even art. Suede probably forget what their old albums sound like, which is what artists+pop ppl both SHOULD do. OK I'm agreeing with you now, Suede will be seen in 10 years time like Mott or Butthole Surfers or some other band that really was pretty great. [Perhaps a less cliched way of saying 'albums that prove influential over time' is 'albums where there was complex and unorthodox thinking and methods that went into the details that are revealed over a lengthy period of listening which of course only can happen when the surface is attractive enough to encourage this type of analysis, ie the listener has enough purely selfish reasons [the only TRUE ones!] for listening to it a) over and over, or b) 10 years after it came out?'] And all you had to do was mention Radiohead. That did it. Radiohead will never ever be great. Twenty years from now their present fans will reminisce about their 'Radiohead' phase like ppl who were Iron Maiden fans in the 80s. Because Radiohead are all about audibly finding 'solutions'. Whereas wizards and true stars don't have 'problems' in the first place.

― dave q, Sunday, 2 March 2003 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

(Still hate the guy's fuckin' singing though. Heard him do an in-the-studio session once w/ BB on acoustic, sounded like payday at Huntingdon Life Sciences)

― dave q, Sunday, 2 March 2003 14:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I am quite fond of Suede, that "Stay Together" single ended up being an important part of the soundtrack to my early teens. I'd agree that Dog Man Star is their best album, and I think the debut album was quite good too. And I even think that "Coming Up" wasn't too bad, despite being pretty formulaic Suede-by-numbers and having a horrible cover.

― Chriddof (Chriddof), Sunday, 2 March 2003 14:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Quite a rant there Dave - I can't honestly say I followed over it but as I despise (with a passion) everything Radiohead have done outside of The Bends, I agree with you on that. OK Computer has been in my CD collection gathering dust for ages now. I fell for hype I'm sad to say. I disliked the singles and still bought it because I thought to myself: 'God everyone can't be wrong can they?' First and last time that hype suckered me. I hated it. Dog Man Star has more emotion and beauty than Radiohead will ever be able to conjur up.

I'm sure the chap mentioning Huntingdon Life Sciences was doing so to wind me up, as he really should know that it is my ambition to see that death camp, and everyone in it, go redundant as soon as possible (well, okay, if I had my way I'd like to see them all contract a nasty and very painful genital disease that will lead to a slow death).

I think Brett Anderson, much like Billy Corgan, has a voice you either love or hate. It documented my years at uni, and many more important times for me so I can honestly say I adore his singing. I still fall in love whenever I hear The Wild Ones, and Another No One is the best song about breaking up ever, ever, ever. Sniff.

― Calum Robert, Sunday, 2 March 2003 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

''Twenty years from now their present fans will reminisce about their 'Radiohead' phase like ppl who were Iron Maiden fans in the 80s.''

*applause*

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 2 March 2003 14:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Does anyone rate Coldplay as having made the greatest album of all time?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 2 March 2003 15:06 (twenty-three years ago)

fritz and mark p to thread!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 2 March 2003 15:17 (twenty-three years ago)

i like them = i think they've made the greatest album of all time?

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 2 March 2003 15:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Twenty years from now their present fans will reminisce about their 'Radiohead' phase like ppl who were Iron Maiden fans in the 80s.

Will there be a big Radiohead revival in 15 years?

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 2 March 2003 15:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey Julio - didn't know if you were still around. Do you still get Firelight mailing list emails? I think everyone that ever emailed me ended up being defected to our mailing list so sorry if you are!

― Calum Robert, Sunday, 2 March 2003 15:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Will there be a big Radiohead revival in 15 years?

And will it involve metalheads wearing Radiohead T-shirts ironically?

― Nick Mirov (nick), Sunday, 2 March 2003 15:37 (twenty-three years ago)

i predict there will be a big Radiohead revival in about 15 minutes

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 2 March 2003 17:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Odd man out tho it makes me, I like the first album best. I just put it on the other week and thought, yes, this is pretty good. Dog Man Star is a little too...everything for me. I like it, but I get annoyed by it too. It sounds like it was mixed in a barn. I think Coming Up is a perfectly fine slab of glammy Britpop, but I think you also have to treat them as a somewhat different and diminished band post-Butler.

― Jesse Fox, Sunday, 2 March 2003 19:20 (twenty-three years ago)

''Hey Julio - didn't know if you were still around. Do you still get Firelight mailing list emails? I think everyone that ever emailed me ended up being defected to our mailing list so sorry if you are!''

I've been around these parts for (I think) almost two years calum (apart from december where I went on holiday). How are things?

I did get those emails and there's no need to apologise.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 2 March 2003 20:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Dave Q's post is the best thing about Brit pop I've ever read.

― Ally (mlescaut), Sunday, 2 March 2003 20:39 (twenty-three years ago)

David Stubbs' anti-britpop piece in The Guide on Saturday was alright, really.

― Wyndham Earl, Sunday, 2 March 2003 21:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Things are so-so. Although most of our readership is American we didn't get any shit from circulating an anti-war email. We have some pretty cool compos now and again which you can always try and enter. Oh, which reminds me (and this is kinda relevant to the thread) my mags named after a Suede lyric in the B-side 'Whipsnade'.

Oh yeah - and the hidden track - 'Oceans' from A New Morning is gorgeous. It's one of Suede's best songs in aaaages.

― Calum Robert, Sunday, 2 March 2003 21:10 (twenty-three years ago)

"Dog Man Star" is a great rec, but I haven't listened to it in ages. I listened to the debut one yesterday, and it's flawed, but with moments of pop genius. they have been written out of the picture a bit, and I would prefer them to Coldplay and the Verve.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 2 March 2003 22:08 (twenty-three years ago)

great to know calum.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 2 March 2003 22:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Their problem is that they aren't much cop without Bernard. He isn't much cop without them. The first album is better than Dog Man Star, sadly.

If they are being written out of the picture it's because they promised much but essentially failed to deliver.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 2 March 2003 22:53 (twenty-three years ago)

funny, I actually have enjoyed "Dog Man Star" the least of what I've heard of Suede. I prefer their riff rockers to their ballads. But I don't wanna say Dog Man Star SUX because I only listened to it one and a half time. But though only hearing it like three times I like "The Beautiful Ones" enough that I really should just go and buy Coming Up already. I tried to borrow Head Music from my college radio station but the CD wasn't in the case. mope.

I used to have the first album (my aunt bought it mistaking it for the OTHER Suede so she gave her copy to me), but I gave to a friend who really liked "the Drowners." I should ask for it back, at least for another listen. But yeah, Dog Man Star sounded really yawny from what I remember. Not enough pep.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 2 March 2003 23:28 (twenty-three years ago)

But though only hearing it like three times I like "The Beautiful Ones" enough that I really should just go and buy Coming Up already.

You should. Much better album all in all than Dog Man Star, which has some really great songs, some draggy ones, and some murky arrangements that are sometimes yay and sometimes nay.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 2 March 2003 23:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I find "Dog Man Star" their _least_ enjoyable album in a way. Not that I don't like it, but I still thing that "Coming Up", followed by "Suede" is considerably better. And they did a great comeback one last year too.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 3 March 2003 02:17 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll always love the first album the best, followed by Coming Up.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 3 March 2003 02:23 (twenty-three years ago)

If it's at the store, I'm buying Coming Up tomorrow! Sold!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 3 March 2003 02:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I loved/love "The Drowners" and the first record. After grunge and its offspring soundtracked the end of high school for me, it was great to stumble upon something with a little sex in it.

― Scott Warner (thream), Monday, 3 March 2003 04:33 (twenty-three years ago)

"Beautiful Ones" is the best Suede song. No contest. One of the best and most under-appreciated guitar riffs ever.

Never been a fan of all their other songs, though. The lead singer's Geddy Lee-esque voice gets on my nerves.

― Evan (Evan), Monday, 3 March 2003 04:47 (twenty-three years ago)

If you think Brett sounds like Geddy Lee, I have to wonder what you think of Placebo. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 March 2003 04:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Suede are mostly forgotten for a reason.

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Monday, 3 March 2003 05:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, you're mean.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 March 2003 05:15 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry ned, you have angered the wrath of the international radiohead jihad

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 3 March 2003 05:25 (twenty-three years ago)

otherwise known as IRJ

the slogan: "GOT THE IRJ?"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 3 March 2003 05:29 (twenty-three years ago)

(rhymes with purge)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 3 March 2003 05:29 (twenty-three years ago)

i'll get me coat etc

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 3 March 2003 05:30 (twenty-three years ago)

aw jim, bless

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 3 March 2003 05:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Did you know that Suede and the Donnas have the same lead singer? It's true!!

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 3 March 2003 08:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh Lord, this week is starting like last week ended. As if The Verve wasn't bad enough

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 3 March 2003 10:01 (twenty-three years ago)

it is interesting to see the way they are being written rather out of history as far as britpop goes, but then, they always seemed not quite to fit even at the time. the fanbase for britpop and the fanbase for suede seemed to intersect but not be the same (i guess this makes suede close to msp). in a strange way a similar thing seems to have happened to happy mondays.

― gareth (gareth), Monday, 3 March 2003 11:27 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree with pretty much all the points in dave q's rant, only maybe not necessarily with regards to the two bands mentioned. This is because I think Radiohead (musically if not spiritually/ethically) are OK whereas Suede will always be shocking shite to me. Absolutely shocking, shocking, shite.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 3 March 2003 12:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Well Nick your heart can't be the same as mine. If you can't feel goose bumps rise when you hear Still Life, The 2 of Us, The Wild Ones or The Living Dead then I guess you might beyond convincing.

Suede will always touch me in ways few bands do.

― Calum Robert, Monday, 3 March 2003 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

(They didn't have it, poop) My god, he DOES sound like Geddy Lee? That Placebobo does too! Holy Guacamole!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 3 March 2003 23:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I borrowed Coming Up from fellow ILxor Carey and Damn, It's good! Possibly my favorite Glahm Supersta-har focused album ever. Totally beat Definitely Maybe, the other album I borrowed. So here's my question. Would that double-CD b-sides thing be worth it to somebody who loved Coming Up but hated Dog Man Star?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 15 March 2003 19:43 (twenty-three years ago)

yes. it's more straightforward pop in the Coming Up/Suede vein, less orchestral bombast. although i like orchestral bombast and DMS is my fave suede album! ;-)

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 15 March 2003 21:19 (twenty-three years ago)

And more than half the songs collected are Coming Up era tracks anyway. Go for it, Anthony.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 15 March 2003 23:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Dave Q - you own a Tascam right? And you have internet access clearly.

How's about you upload one of your best tunes and we can all see whether or not it stands up to "Black Star" or "Banana Co".

You arrogant ninny.

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 22:36 (twenty-three years ago)

and then you can do the same. and then we'll all revel in the warm glow

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Sunday, 16 March 2003 22:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh and by the way I absolutely adore Suede, see a previous thread, but both are excellent bands and I fail to see the need for adolescent partisanship. The fact that Jonny Greenwood and Bernard Butler collaborated (gladly) on the Velvet Goldmine soundtrack indicates the mutual respect between the guitarists (the finest of their generation) if not the bands (see Brett being a bitch and resenting Radiohead's global success).

To surmise; Suede will not be forgotten as they wrote some of the finest pop music of the 1990's, talked addled sense and looked cool as fuck.

Seen?

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 22:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Very droll Jim.

But I didn't infer that the music that I produce is superior to Radiohead's.

Seen I.

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 22:46 (twenty-three years ago)

As it happens, it's far superior - but that wasn't my point.

D'ya catch me drift?

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 22:56 (twenty-three years ago)

indicates the mutual respect between the guitarists (the finest of their generation)

I love this kind of stuff. Up the revolution!

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 16 March 2003 22:57 (twenty-three years ago)

"I love this kind of stuff. Up the revolution!"

I love this kind of stuff. Up the revolution!

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Living Dead is the saddest song ever.

― Ally (mlescaut), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I have heard Dave Q's stuff, it's as good as Suede...and I'm a Suede fan. Q's lyrics are much less pretentious than Anderson's, yes pretentious somebody's gotta say it

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Brett's lyrics are poetic - either you like that or you don't.

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:14 (twenty-three years ago)

If I'm in the mood for a rhyming 6th form sociology essay I listen to the Clash.

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, Suede's later-period stuff really doesn't hold up to 6th form sociology.

― Ally (mlescaut), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I fear you may have misunderstood me Ally, and whilst I freely acknowledge the vacuity of some of Brett's lyrics, I find it difficult to believe that (purely on the basis of reading his irritating, overblown, meaningless, pseudo-intellectual rants) Dave Q is capable of producing an ounce of poetry from his skin, let alone a witty line.

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Honestly, I can't think of one thing that Brett has written that I'd qualify as a "witty line" so it seems a pointless gesture to argue pro-Suede on the basis of witlessness...

I can't quite figure out what he said, actually, that was so offensive.

― Ally (mlescaut), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Brett's witty line was the "leotard" / "retard" couplet back on the first single.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Ahhhndersahn said "shaking your meat to the beat" and "shaking your bits to the hits," for which I'm forever grateful.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:33 (twenty-three years ago)

ATTN: Anthony, Eyeball, Dave Q and Ally:

You know nothing - keep it to yourself.

― chris sallis, Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Chris Sallis, you are Oscar Wilde - give us more.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:48 (twenty-three years ago)

he's got a rapist wit alright.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:57 (twenty-three years ago)

a small point Chris, but weren't you arguing about Q vs Radiohead as opposed to Q vs Suede, who he professed to liking?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Speaking as both a Suede and Dave Q fan, I'd rather read Dave Q's words than Brett's lyrics, trust me. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 March 2003 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Fair enough my avian chum.

*Chris Sallis has left the building* cue gunfire, applause and mass ecstasy.

― chris sallis, Monday, 17 March 2003 00:03 (twenty-three years ago)

two years pass...

Later that year they split. Brett and Bernard reunited and formed The Tears!

What do you all think of them?

― Richard Hart (Filmy), Monday, 24 October 2005 23:16 (twenty years ago)

it is interesting to see the way they are being written rather out of history as far as britpop goes, but then, they always seemed not quite to fit even at the time

Yeah, 'cause where they really fit at the time was in the third-rate Smiths/Bowie ripoff category. I remember Melody Maker desperately trying to whip up "Suedemania" - they even used that phrase on the cover at the time, iirc. I fucking hated them at the time, and I hate them now. Brett's "I'm a gay man who's never had a homosexual experience" schtick was about as tiresome as Franz Ferdinand's daring exposes of the gay lifestyle.

― John Hunter, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 01:23 (twenty years ago)

only three people ever heard the Tears and they all died under mysterious circumstances

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 01:24 (twenty years ago)

Don't call it a comeback
They've been in The Tears

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 01:30 (twenty years ago)

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