Lennon Vs McCartney

http://www.kuci.org/~brianm/ile/ononeg.jpgMUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!http://www.kuci.org/~brianm/ile/ononeg.jpg

Lennon - dead - Radio - "Imagine" (solo) "Xmaswarsover" (solo)
Harrison - dead - Radio "MySweetLord" (solo)

future:

Starkey - Radio (?)
McCartney - HeyJude - LetitBe - Yesterday (all Group)

They should have got her to actually play piano.

Paul McCartney's is so patchy it is hard to rate at all, but there is of course nothing that can possibly come close to the songwriting magic he created back in the age of The Beatles anyway.

Yoko was the best (certainly most qualified) musician out of the lot of 'em.

I can't believe what I'm reading.

Macca wins just cos of his fucking extraordinarily fucking amazing bass playing.

Geir's favourite Beatle is the rhythm king. How does that work?

Macca wins just cos of his fucking extraordinarily fucking amazing guitar solos.

it really boils down to cynthia-yoko vs linda-heather.

i've always liked macca's songs more, and though his melodies make up for his tweeness. lennon's vocals and passion were often ruined for me by the more grating sounds on a lot of his solo stuff.

that said, there are days when it's lennon, there are days when it's paul.

Macca wins just cos of his fucking extraordinarily fucking amazing bass playing.

Yes. The basslines on Abbey Road are incredible; extremely intricate without ever overwhelming the songs or being in least bit untasteful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSwUzM_nTGM

lol lars

it seems like there's a general split based upon the characterizations of Lennon being the more nakedly emotional one + radical politics and McCartney being more the craftsman + melodic genius. Setting aside whether these characterization are accurate (altho I think that, broadly speaking, they are), where one falls on this divide depends upon which of these qualities are more highly valued. So you get a lot of lefties who's gut is to go with Lennon for being "raw" or an "activist" and then you have people on the other side who don't care so much about either of those qualities as much as they really love a sweet bassline.

One of the respondents notes that Lennon always wrote about himself, which led me to the hypothesis that John wrote about himself, Paul wrote about nobody, but it was *George* who wrote about everybody, and really it's the latter whose music moves me the most emotionally.

At least since Flaming Pie, McCartney's material has struck me as being very personal. So, that's five albums. Never really been sure how to characterize it exactly, but I think going back to the Beatles, he had a sort of painterly or novelistic approach to songwriting. So maybe to say that he "wrote about nobody" is like saying that some painter painted about nobody.

Maybe more accurate to say nobody real or nobody in particular...?

His English sheepdog Martha was real.

not a person

McCartney's mom was allegedly the lyrical inspiration for Yesterday and Julian Lennon for Hey Jude. I'm sure there are other examples. I think Lennon's autobiographical songwriting was just more loudly broadcast.

Some of the 64-65 stuff was about Jane Asher, and the problems of being in a relationship with Jane Asher ("Every Little Thing", "You Won't See Me", "What You're Doing")

live and let die was abt james bond

Don't think it's particularly interesting to note who or what their songs were about, especially since "Another Day" and "Big Barn Bed" and "Maybe I'm Amazed" obviously commemorate an intense marital bliss, and lots of Lennon songs are about nothing except shows of craftsmanship (most of MG and W&B and I'd argue DF).

"Temporary Secretary" was allegedly about a secretary

she didn't last long :(

and she fit on his knee!

"Another Day" obviously commemorate an intense marital bliss

?? are we listening to the same song?

Ay
So Sad, So Sad,
Sometimes She Feels So Sad.
Alone In Her Apartment She'd Dwell,
Till The Man Of Her Dreams Comes To Break The Spell.

Ah, Stay, Don't Stand Around
And He Comes And He Stays
But He Leaves The Next Day,
So Sad.
Sometimes She Feels So Sad.

As She Posts Another Letter To The Sound Of Five,
People Gather 'Round Her
And She Finds It Hard To Stay Alive,

this song is a total bummer!

fwiw that there are specifics underlying McCartney's songs was not really my point - he is not the raw, nakedly emotional writer Lennon was. For ex. "Mother" is pretty much all autobiographical details simply told and brutally delivered. McCartney writes a song about his mum (let's say "Yesterday") and successfully evokes a nostalgic sentimentality with vague lyrics and a haunting melody. these are different kinds of songs, the former getting over with literal simplicity, the latter getting over with a formal inventiveness.

but when I say McCartney would write about "nobody" I literally mean the dozens (? probably more?) songs he wrote featuring nonsensically named characters, he was prone to these sort of goofy stoner character sketches (which, a lot of times, don't make a ton of sense). Lennon dabbled in gibberish as well for a time but when it comes to narrative Macca's default setting was whimsical fiction, and Lennon's was exhibitionist autobiography.

i dunno, feel like that whole narrative leans too heavily on plastic ono band and discounts a lot of lennon's beatles material

like what I'm Only Sleeping

Yer Blues, Come Together, Julia, Help...?

come together was pretty naked autobiographical, lennon had one joo-joo eyeball after a tragic football accident as a child

lots of Lennon songs are about nothing except shows of craftsmanship (most of MG and W&B and I'd argue DF).

agree about the first two, but double fantasy is obsessively focused on his relationship with yoko and how great it is (or, you could argue, how horrible it is). it's just as personal as POB (though less compelling obviously).

oh I know but again I'm not concentrating on biography: a few of those DF songs could have fit on any of Lennon's albums and no one would have blinked.

come together was pretty naked autobiographical

wasn't it you that pointed out that come together is a self-portrait of him and his bandmates

but yes lol

no! that was my first post in the thread!

I meant in some other Beatles thread but ok must've been someone else I'll try and find it

it may be true i have no idea, but like each character represents a beatle?

eh well that's impossible to search for. anyway the ostensible interpretation is:

"Here come old flat top
He come groovin' up slowly
He got joo joo eyeballs
He one holy rollers
He got hair down to his knee
Got to be a joker
He just do what he please"
= George

"He wear no shoeshine
He got toe jam football
He got monkey finger
He shoot Coca Cola
He say I know you, you know me
One thing I can tell you is
You got to be free"
= Paul

"He bad production
He got walrus gumboot
He got Ono sideboard
He one spinal cracker
He got feet down below his knees
Hold you in his arms yeah
You can feel his disease"
= Lennon

"He roller coaster
He got early warning
He got muddy water
He one Mojo filter
He say one and one and one is three
Got to be good looking
Cause he's so hard to see"
= Ringo

lots of Lennon songs are about nothing except shows of craftsmanship (most of MG and W&B and I'd argue DF).

You say "not concentrating on biography," so what's the analysis? That the personal and topical songs on these albums are...rote? And therefore "about nothing except shows of craftsmanship?"

http://www.mikeruddbillputt.com/home/StopPress117/Turd---turds.jpg

lots of Lennon songs are about nothing except shows of craftsmanship

presumably you don't mean this as a knock though?

No! Blame my usual aversion to this kind of line connecting. Paul's song about someone knocking on the door is at least as autobiographical as John's writing about his marriage.

"You never give me your money" and "Carry that weight" were quite unadorned portraits of the frustrations among the fab four in their final days, so Macca was pretty capable of lashing out all the time.

Love the battiness of Geir's assertion in the original post that no early Lennon song has become a standard.

John Lennon to blame for legitimizing celebrity self-pity as acceptable lyric material before the 70s even started. But Mick Jagger and Pete Townshend would have gotten there anyway.

Pete was already there before Lennon
Jagger I don't see it, he's too good a CEO of Rolling Stones Inc

The correct answer is Paul tho yeah?

No, the correct answer is not Paul "That Was My Idea" McCartney.

As of Rubber Soul & Revolver it's still a toss-up. Greatest 2 sided single ever in early 67, again equal credits. Sgt. Pepper, advantage Paul.

To me the tie-breaker is the White Album where John's stuff just ruthlessly runs up the score on the Paulieness. But the thing is, I don't like Abbey Road at all, except for George's and John's standalone songs (not truly crazy about any of it really) (& John's stuff in the long medley bit on s2 is as pointless as Paul's sections, but Paul and George Martin thought that was BRILLIANT so they get the credit or blame).

Add to that my simple fan love of John's vocals, with the note that his background vocals add SO much to various Paul songs and I can't say the same vice versa.

x-post Jagger kind of good at the self-referential celebrity song, and come to think of it they aren't self-pitying either, so I take that remark back. Self-excusing though. He seems on the defensive pretty regularly from the late 60s through the end of the 70s. I guess you had to be there.

how is that last verse even vaguely about Ringo?

he counts and he sits in the back

I actually listened to both of their solo work on a road trip recently. Lennon by a mile. Not even counting "Freedom" and that new video game song disqualifying anything Paul put up against John. I love Paul, but come on. Tortured fugly asian lovers are far more interesting than giggly stoners.

The correct answer is Paul tho yeah?

― resting waterface (m bison), Sunday, December 28, 2014 6:41 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yup!