Lil Kim -- Bella Mafia: first thoughts?

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Hold It Now has a seriously tweaked beat, like backward masked disjoint heartbeat drums, the ghost of grindin'.

Absolutely a frission of the new happenin' here with like half the same back-in-the-day signifiers tim & missy use incl. "here's a little story that must be told".

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Doing It Way Big is middle eastern like Shania's blue disc, with funny tablas and weird-ass strings. But the beat is actually straight fours. one-and-two-and three four. So slow. This is like SNL's version of versace drugged out faux-exotic decadence.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:20 (twenty-three years ago)

"This Is Who I Am" is a Swizz production, and he's got this pretty cascading waterfall with a throbbing bass and some lifted timbo chika-chikas. I keep expecting the bass to push forward instead of just hitting twice and going away -- and it DOES.

This biggie droppin' is getting a bit much. But there's something spectacularly oceanic about the track, def. way more onna sampladelia tip than her earlier stuff.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:24 (twenty-three years ago)

"Can You Hear Me Now" is with Missy and probably a Timbo production. Flighty pleasant sample, good stuff, but nothing new rilly.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:28 (twenty-three years ago)

"Thug Luv" feat. Twista. Total bounce sound, & twista's got great flow but I can't tell what he's saying coz of all the bleeps in this version. Think n* what n* who doubletiming, and sypmhonic fanfare like classic gotti. There's this cute moog wibble in the background which flips the whole thing into something much more playful and somewhat ominous. Lil kim nearly matches twista for words per minute, so I guess this track is rilly a showpiece for her chops.

I'm not listening in order, so maybe there's some cohesion to the album that I'm missing but it feels frustratingly dissociated from any personality play as yet.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:32 (twenty-three years ago)

"Magic Stick" w/ 50c is delightfully goofy but i didn't really notice anything else about it.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:40 (twenty-three years ago)

ooh damn she's dissin' on foxy for not writing all her lyrics on her first album.

these radio sketches are really tired anyway.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Can't Fuck With Queen Bee with Full Force.

sigh. Nothing is living up to the first couple tracks. this is pretty r&b driven hip-hop but so at peace -- nothing as disturbing and provoking even as her guest on the Xtina album.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:49 (twenty-three years ago)

"shake ya bum bum" with shanice has way more classic lil' kim growl flow and this impossibly twee flute accompaniment -- this is what i'm talking about. there's a spectacular frission here and in a few other tracks, the same stuff kim got with the kid-rapper on the "aunt dot" track off the last album.

this track is begging for a dancehall ragga remix.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 20:54 (twenty-three years ago)

"The Jump Off" is a Timba track which feels just like a remake of "Hot Boyz" -- like Kim is still tryin' for Da Real World while the rest of the world moved on -- except the deep bouncy orch hits lend it an up to date dancehall flavor, again a chance to show off doubletime flow.

All the tracks are solid, I'll give you that. But that's about all they feel like.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"This Is A Warning" and I'm thinking R. Kelly's "Woman's Threat" but is it?

Haha yes it IS! It is a fucking cover! Ahem, interpolation.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:02 (twenty-three years ago)

R. Kelly does it better. Because he can sing. And will she shut up about biggie already? I don't even get who she's warning about what anymore. She's getting all class & gender flipped Jarvis "I Spy" Cocker -- like Ima steal your man coz I'm richer and more talented and high class.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Aren't her fifteen minutes up yet?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:09 (twenty-three years ago)

"the jump off" = a million timbaland-orchestrated clams opening and closing in synchronization. also SKRRRRQQQQKKKK!@# tire squeal stolen from "when the last time". it's on the better side of 'solid' i think. now i'm excited to hear "hold it now".

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:12 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe they should be. "Get In Touch With Us" is more of the same eastern-tinged etcetc. -- she's desperately one step behind.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:18 (twenty-three years ago)

"Heavenly Father" is oh no! sped up SOUL SAMPLE! OH NO!

But it does have that Kim absurdism that's missing from this album. The trying way to hard italiano bravura -- the not evocatively but dumbly detailed narrative.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Tha Beehive is another of the better trax. Pounding monochords, ominous odd samples crawling around the background, "somebody get the monostat seven/ and hit me why don't cha" haha yes. There's something appropriately exhilerating about this.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:29 (twenty-three years ago)

This last sketch with a phone call from a derranged fan is spectacular.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:35 (twenty-three years ago)

"Came Back For You" is fun -- she's copping ODB's flow believe it or not. Luxurious and slightly mad and nice round flow which rolls over and over itself with a mild p-funkist slap bass. Goes out on an almost Ironman scratchy positive soul note -- total winner.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:40 (twenty-three years ago)

And will she shut up about biggie already?

No, she will not. Ever. Gardener gotta pull weeds, dishwasher gotta wash dishes, Li'l Kim gotta talk about Biggie all day.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 21:47 (twenty-three years ago)

What, is that "Kimnotyze" single not on the album?

― Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 22:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Lil' Kim persona is played out by now. Album has not one original thought put in it, except for singing an R. Kelly song. (...) And is it just my copy or is there no Missy Eliott featured (as advertised) on (When Kim Say) Can You Hear Me Now?? Sounds like the minimally talented Angie Martinez to me...

― JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 22:14 (twenty-three years ago)

what did people think of kimnotyze anyway? we didn't discuss it on ILX at all. Kraftwerk meets Aqua I think.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 22:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Haven't heard the new one except "The Jump Off" yet but Sterling I'd be hardpressed to think of a theme for The Notorious K.I.M. either except for um sex & violence. "Aunt Dot" was brill though - very much the track that saves the second half of the album from total inconsequentiality.

Lil' Kim's total lack of self-reflection makes her perfect for single tracks but somewhat frustrating over a whole album surely (cf. Foxy Brown, whose tracks sound better in eachother's company).

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 23:42 (twenty-three years ago)

what did people think of kimnotyze anyway?

It's tough choice what's worst about that track, Tomekk's crappy beats, the Troopa Da Don verse or Kims attempts at German.

― Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 4 March 2003 23:52 (twenty-three years ago)

But Notorious was just so LADEN with sex and violence that it felt positively corpulent. The rips off biggie like Paper Chase were improvements instead of just pale shadows, and puffy brought these plush luxurious beats like she was onna run from the law in a mink -- like real anna nicole bombshell grotesque. She doesn't even come close to replicating that.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 05:23 (twenty-three years ago)

two months pass...

She's on the cover of Nylon's special music issue this month, which may be of intererst to some of you, especially Philip Sherburne's round-up of raunchy rap.

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 31 May 2003 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Magic Stick grew on me when it became a single.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 1 June 2003 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

The album is crazy....she hits u with one two back to back....every song is crazy....and here 3rd single Can u hear me now with missy is off the hook....she even took a jab at 50cent who is also on her Cd...."I got Madallions the size of a HALF a dolla"....get it...nope...well think about!

― Marcus Reid, Thursday, 17 July 2003 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

nine months pass...

hey does n e one know what twista's word per min. is??? please e-mail me if u know. notsmart2004@yahoo.com

― colin mclennan, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

so whenever i want me some kim i always default to the notorious KIM these days, but that youtube clip of mathew jonson dropping 'the jump off' vocals into one of his sets made me dig this album out, and - though i think i def prefer both notorious and the naked truth - this has some fucking awesome stuff on it.

thug luv
the jump off
magic stick
heavenly father
can you hear me now?

GOLDEN.

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Sunday, 7 January 2007 22:17 (nineteen years ago)

the moment in 'thug luv' when twista and kim switch to doubletime is INC-RED-I-BLE.

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Monday, 8 January 2007 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

even though i can't imagine anyone else replying, i think my time is def spent more profitably talking to myself here than on any of the ones about the british music press (taking cue from jay-z, "a wise man told me don't argue with fools, cos people from a distance can't tell who is who").

this album seems so restrained in comparison to all other kim albums - her vocals are deeper in the mix, there's far less smut, and as sterling point out at the time many of the beats don't blow you away immediately (though initially-underwhelming ones like 'magic stick' and 'the jump off' definitely improve with time). but over the whole album the persona kim constructs of this mourning mafia widow is very convincing. yeah it's not that different to her usual self but it seems particularly focused here.

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Monday, 8 January 2007 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

The beat on "The Magic Stick" is ace though!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 8 January 2007 11:44 (nineteen years ago)

you're missing the two best songs! "Get In Touch With Us" featuring Styles and "Came Back For You."

And Notorious KIM is your default Kim album? Seriously? That's easily her worst!

1. Hardcore
2. La Bella Mafia
3. Naked Truth
4. Notorious KIM

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Monday, 8 January 2007 11:49 (nineteen years ago)

yeah it is ace! but it's not as immediate as, i dunno, 'how many licks?' or 'suck my dick' or 'whoa' or 'lighters up', it's quite subtle and restrained in that loping, slow-burning kind of way (which means that after a few listens it's even better!)

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Monday, 8 January 2007 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

And Notorious KIM is your default Kim album? Seriously? That's easily her worst!

it's got 'how many licks?' and 'suck my dick' and 'aunt dot' and 'i'm human' and 'no matter what they say' and 'she don't love you' and 'who's number one' and that pat benatar one on it! hip-pop!

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Monday, 8 January 2007 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

Lex i love all of those songs! Aww I wanna put on The Notorious K.I.M. now.

But "Aunt Dot" is the one I've still gotta put on a mixtape sometime.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 8 January 2007 12:01 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, you're into her poppier side. I think Kim's at her best when she's being a gully, hardcore, badass -- "All About the Benjamins," Mobb Deep's "Quiet Storm," "Get In Touch With Us," "Queen Bitch" (my fave Kim song). Her poppier stuff is good too, I like her whole diva, designer label side and stuff, but it gets a bit tired after a while. The smutty stuff was awesome on Hardcore, afterwords it was just tedious. Do you like Hardcore?

I'm excited to see how her time in jail will influence her music.

and yeah "Aunt Dot" is the best song on Notorious KIM IMO.

"fuck barney and lambchops -- I don't love them hoes!" lmao.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Monday, 8 January 2007 12:04 (nineteen years ago)

"aw, i like you, little big person! rule number one: no cursing"

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Monday, 8 January 2007 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

Seriously that album (Notorious K.I.M.) is like a highpoint of carnal technicolour pop. I brought that along to a New Years Party 2000->2001 and danced to "How Many Licks" as well as "Oops I Did It Again" and "The Real Slim Shady" and other randomly great pop music of the era. I was so in love with pop that night.

I haven't actually listened to Hardcore much, owing to, well, the lack of Kim on it.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 8 January 2007 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

i like the intersection of the nasty badass rhymes with the designer hip-pop beats best - yeah i love hardcore too but this is why 'how many licks?' (and accompanying awesome video) is my favouritest kim song ever.

my friend anna-marie and i have it basically all off by heart. the first verse!

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Monday, 8 January 2007 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

I knew the first and second verse off by heart.

This goes out to all my n****s in jail
Beatin' they dicks to the XXL
Magazine... D'ya like how I look in the aqua green?
Get ya vaseline!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 8 January 2007 12:09 (nineteen years ago)

12am i'm on my way to the club
after three bottles i be ready to fuck

(the way she draws out the vowel sounds on the last syllable is DIRRTY)

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Monday, 8 January 2007 12:12 (nineteen years ago)

i think kim's nastiest single line may be on 'gimme that' off the naked truth though - when i first heard "kitty-kat so mean it turns dudes into rapists" i went !!!!!!!!!!!!! for about an hour. and there's that fun line about "only bitch in the world who got two pussies" as well.

― lex pretend (lex pretend), Monday, 8 January 2007 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

ten months pass...

So, um, KIM IS BACK! New single:

http://concreteloop.com/2007/11/new-music-from-lil-kim

LOL @ "beat the pussy up like it stole somethin'". Also, her verse on the Gucci Mane "Freaky Gurl" remix is CLASSIC. She killed it..

― The Brainwasher, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 09:02 (eighteen years ago)

Is there a follow-up song to Aunt Dot? I *LOVE* that song but its ending is kind of abrupt and I dont know enough Kim to figure out where next to look..

― Finefinemusic, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)

seven years pass...

incredible piece

http://www.wonderingsound.com/feature/lil-kim-hard-core-body-politics-personal-essay-record-club/

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 15:51 (eleven years ago)

oh so any minor bullshit can fuel the worst music writing thread for weeks on end and this amazing bit of writing gets 0 attention in 4 hrs, oh ilx

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:04 (eleven years ago)

Yeah this is fantastic, the connections drawn between Fiona Apple and Kim feel intuitively right to me

(It's 7.40am here fyi)

― Tim F, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 20:42 (eleven years ago)

hey lex I read it and liked it fwiw

― sleeve, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 21:02 (eleven years ago)

although "liked" is probably the wrong word for such a powerful piece

― sleeve, Tuesday, 25 November 2014 21:02 (eleven years ago)

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