The Test: When Indie Bands Should Quit -

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This is a fool-proof method of figuring out whether an indie band should give it up or keep going. It applies to indie bands only, as the very nature of these type of bands make them ultimately disposable - so please no Springsteen wise-cracks, ok? Here goes:

When a BAND has ALBUMS that YOU as a FAN forget to mention when listing their discography - they should quit.

Examples:

Superchunk - Indoor Living
Pavement - Brighten the Corners

etc etc. Try it!

Hearty praise for good bands / artists smart enough to break up and /or die while they were still relevant - from Hendrix and Ayler to At the Drive In and Chavez. Yes?

― scab dahlia (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 02:33 (twenty-three years ago)

The Cure, Killing Joke, The Fall.

― Mary Anne With The Shaky Hand, Thursday, 6 March 2003 02:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Rob Pollard OWNS this thread.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 6 March 2003 02:39 (twenty-three years ago)

bob pollard does. though i'm much happier forgetting everything that isn't propeller, bee thousand or aline lanes, personally.

mary anne, right on with the cure and killing joke, but the fall?? no way. i can name you every Fall album IN A ROW off the top of my head. I won't. but I could.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 02:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Fugazi :(

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:04 (twenty-three years ago)

jon - regrettably, I agree. What WAS that one with Birthday Pony on it called????

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:12 (twenty-three years ago)

i was going to say cannanes or yo la tengo but i can pretty much recall their entire discographies with alarming ease

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:13 (twenty-three years ago)

i initially thought of yo la too, but all of those records are great. maybe that's ONE exception to the rule...?

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Birthday Pony was on Red Medicine. And thanks to the Argument, I Will Not Here This Blasphemy.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:21 (twenty-three years ago)

are you sure that was Red Medicine? Then which was the one with "Do You Like Me" and "Bed for the Scraping"? That was the last good one, I thought...

see? this proves my point I guess.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Have you heard the Argument? Cuz otherwise no it doesn't.

And those two are on Red Medicine too.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll definitely admit that Steady Diet through End Hits was a gradual slumping but the Argument is like *slide whistle going up!* They're BACK!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:29 (twenty-three years ago)

The Argument sounds like Fugazi by the booth + higher production value. Red Medicine was great because it was so weird.

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:33 (twenty-three years ago)

It was the last I acquired, and that may explain it, but I thought the first Fugazi CD (first two EPs) really sucked. The songs were boring as shit and predictable; I think I was only spoiled by my exposure to all their later work, though, as I still keep it because it's got a few great songs on it.

End Hits is tough to get in to, and not very catchy (except "Break") but it doesn't bore me like that one did; all of the others I'd say are thoroughly engaging and worthwhile. And The Argument, as has been stated, is totally amazing and brings back whatever respect I may have lost for them Fuggers along the way.

― Ian Johnson, Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, and as for bands I think this test should have failed:
-Husker Du
-Dinosaur Jr. (though they just flat out sucked at the end, I guess.)
-Pixies (I ALWAYS forget Bossanova; I'm the only person I know who does this, though, so maybe it's a personal hang-up.)
-Swans (whack whack crash boom oh acoustics, pianos goth goth kapow; don't ask me to know more than a handful of their albums.)

― Ian Johnson, Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, Yes, Yes, and Hell no. Swans rule. But funny you mention forgetting Bossanova - I do too. I usually just think of songs from (the still very good) Bossanova as songs on Surfer Rosa.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, Yes, Yes, and Hell no. Swans rule.

Do you really think you could name and differentiate between all Swans releases though? That's fucking impressive, man... there's quite a few of them, and their various periods are very similar (within themselves; differentiating albums within the bludgeoning/industrial/heavy days is particularly tough for me)

― Ian Johnson (orion), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:46 (twenty-three years ago)

agreed, burning world thru love of life not particularly strong period for the band, but when you're a fan, you're a fan. I can name all the Jandek albums too, but don't be TOO impressed - fuck if I could name you all of the members of the Faces, Zombies or Kinks. And for a rock critic, I guess that's probably pretty lame. I'm cursed with a bad memory, so when i DO retain pointless info (ie the Swans disgography) it's very significant.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 03:59 (twenty-three years ago)

I could name all the Swans albums in order of release & tell you which one any given song you played me came from. While juggling two tomatoes and a Hubbard squash. After all, the industrial Swans were really only Filth/Cop/Raping a Slave -- after that, you get way more rhythmic for one album (Greed) and melodic for another (Children of God) before The Burning World, which sounds like none of their other stuff.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 6 March 2003 04:21 (twenty-three years ago)

and for the record, Gira's newe Angels of Light album is incredible.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 04:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay, okay; you guys win. Strike Swans from the list then.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Thursday, 6 March 2003 04:28 (twenty-three years ago)

What John and Roger said. Admittedly I am majorly biased on this subject (says the guy who owns a scary amount of Swans/Young God/Angels of Light/direct from Gira's CD burner releases...)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 March 2003 05:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Ned / John / other freaks - what was yr take on the What We Did collab CD? made me go back to all my Windsor records and buy the ones I didn't have (and the Birdwatcher stuff) - and wouldn't you know it, I like them so much more now - through Gira's lens, if you will!!

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 05:49 (twenty-three years ago)

what was yr take on the What We Did collab CD?

Goddamn well loved it, I did.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 March 2003 05:52 (twenty-three years ago)

screw indie hatred.

i say if the theorem works, it works for any type of music. i think it would be easy to find A BUTTLOAD of very disposable albums outside of indie... one may quickly turn to ...oh say... classic rock and find ac/dc making the same record 20 years later.

i still did love "thunderstruck" though. that was a good riff.

billy joel is gross now.

salt and pepa ...ahem.

sun ra has quite a few albums... not all of them wonderful. miles davis too.

the stones... dude, give it up. although mick does have something like moves still. god, and as long as keith can keep his body moving, we should let him play.

talking heads... ew... that got nasty near the end.

night ranger... hehe...

i think a better test is to find those that break the above. has anyone made 10 amazing albums over time? or even 5?
m.

― msp, Thursday, 6 March 2003 06:16 (twenty-three years ago)

good challenge msp - great albums, all in a row? Excluding the obvious, Dylan? Hmmm...without consulting the racks, Sonic Youth's golden age, John Fahey, Roy Harper, Coltrane and Hellacopters spring to mind as being fairly consistent for one chunk of time or another...

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 06:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I really like both Indoor Living and Brighten the Corners.

I guess there was some point at which I decided that maybe it's best for people to just go on releasing things that I can just ignore: for some reason I think this is important for indie -- and especially indiepop -- where so many bands I enjoy wind up releasing slight variations on the same record for long periods of time. I like the idea of just owning any random two of such a band's records, and then occasionally seeing their further releases in record bins and smiling a little, happy to know they're still floating around somewhere.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 6 March 2003 06:33 (twenty-three years ago)

right - me too - but you are practically DEFINING "irrelevant" - I'm kinda sort of maybe glad Versus still exists - but they will NEVER MATTER AGAIN. sad.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 06:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, one funny thing if a band releases the same record ten times over, people will always like everything up until the first one they hear and then say it's all gone down the drain: like with Versus (who I loved) I stopped paying attention with Two Cents Plus Tax, but I'm sure there are loads of people out there who'll say Hurrah was the drop-off point. So I guess there's always a degree of relevance to someone.

(Best example of this phenomenon is Belle and Sebastian: it seems like an awful lot of people adore B&S up to and including whatever point they started following them.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 6 March 2003 06:40 (twenty-three years ago)

good point. The last Versus album I enjoyed was Secret Swingers, and I fit that B&S category perfectly. It begins and ends with Sinister and the EPs. But really, how many Polvo albums does one person need?

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 06:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Nabisco, I'm with you. "Brighten the Corners" and "Indoor Living" are both fine albums.

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Thursday, 6 March 2003 06:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Just for the record, Hendrix and Ayler didn't exactly "break up."

― Lee G (Lee G), Thursday, 6 March 2003 17:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Will Oldham even forgot to put the Palace (insert) moniker on the "Arise Therefore" album.

Bonnie "Prince" Billy sounds pretty much like Palace, so what is the difference?

Would people percieve Mark E. Smith's music differently if he had instead put out all of those records as half a dozen different band names instead of branded under The Fall moniker?

Another thing I can never understand is the use of most of the time is the word relevant. What is it relevant towards? Some mythic temple of music? A scroll in the dead sea listing LPs and the amount of drugs, sex, booze, enlightenment, and degredation accumilated in the musics presence?

― earlnash, Thursday, 6 March 2003 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

But really, how many Polvo albums does one person need?

Heh, all of 'em.

― hstencil, Thursday, 6 March 2003 17:44 (twenty-three years ago)

When mainstream radio doesn't give a damn about them, and then they have a hit record. That's when they should stop. Remember:
REM (Green)
Red Hot Chilipeppers (Blood Sugar Sex Magic)

OK - I can't think of any others .. maybe it's just those two...

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 6 March 2003 17:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Or none of them.

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Thursday, 6 March 2003 17:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Or however many you would like to had.

Somewhat related tangent: I saw the original cover vinyl of Today's Active Lifestyles in a store yesterday. Anybody need it?

― hstencil, Thursday, 6 March 2003 17:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't forget Indoor Living or Brighten the Corners (I'll give you Terror Twilight, but then that was the end, wasn't it). The subsequent Come Pick Me Up is a durn fine album too.

I'll also submit Wire as an exception. They've too many albums to remember anyway, but Read & Burn is good.

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 6 March 2003 18:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Oldham is wise - but it's not only the name that changes. His willingness to reinvent himself at any cost is, dare i say, almost Dylanesque. Ditto for The Fall - anyone who can't tell Fall albums apart isn't listening.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 18:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Oasis

― Evan (Evan), Thursday, 6 March 2003 19:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Oasis - absolutely

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 19:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Like they were ever indie.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 March 2003 19:30 (twenty-three years ago)

that's true. that's true.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 6 March 2003 19:32 (twenty-three years ago)

anyone who can't tell Fall albums apart isn't listening

that's on purpose for some of us

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 6 March 2003 19:39 (twenty-three years ago)

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