ok you elitist mommapluckers, what ARE the 10 best albums of all time?

1. Selling England By The Pound – Genesis (1973)
2. Skylarking – XTC (1986)
3. Construction Time Again – Depeche Mode (1983)
4. Foxtrot – Genesis (1972)
5. Pet Sounds – Beach Boys (1966)
6. Woodface – Crowded House (1991)
7. Black Celebration – Depeche Mode (1986)
8. Odessey & Oracle – The Zombies (1968)
9. Temple Of Low Men – Crowded House (1988)
10. High Land Hard Rain – Aztec Camera (1983)

every person can do better than a magazine list because a persons list will be individual, and you may know something of that person, its not the magazines faults the lists are dull, its that they are combined squashing any personality out of the choices. if magazine a has records you like at #2, #6 and #8 theres nothing to say #9 is any good, because that might be another persons pick or something. whereas a single person makes the choice with 4 or 5 good things on there, that can make you reconsider.

most of the music i like isnt even on album. this is another reason why these lists are rubbish, it cuts out most music being made

and yes Tom i think you're probably right in that there's not much logic in one person compiling a list of what they think the best albums ever are if not their actual favourites...this leads me to the other question of how you establish your favourites tho. if you did a list when you were 15 how much will that list have changed ten years later, and how would the selection criteria differ etc. - do you just go by what you enjoy listening to the most now or go by what effect/meaning each album had for you at the time of its release or at some time in your life and measure them by that - try this both ways and you might come up with very different lists (the latter method would be your 'rockist' list i guess)

1. Escalator Over The Hill - Carla Bley
2. Rock Bottom - Robert Wyatt
3. Metal Box - PiL
4. Starsailor - Tim Buckley
5. Spirits Rejoice - Louis Moholo Octet
6. Maxinquaye - Tricky
7. Tilt - Scott Walker
8. Marching Song - Mike Westbrook
9. SAW2 - Aphex Twin
10. We Are Ever So Clean - Blossom Toes

The Stone Roses – The Stone Roses
Talk Talk – Spirit Of Eden
Spiritualized – Ladies & Gentlemen…
The Verve – A Northern Soul
Orbital – Orbital (Brown)
Beastie Boys – Paul’s Boutique
Miles Davis – In A Silent Way
The Dismemberment Plan – Emergency & I
The Clash – London Calling
Marvin Gaye – What’s Going On?

ILM Top 100 Records -- The Full List

1) The Clash, London Calling
2) Outkast, Stankonia
3) Curtis Mayfield, Superfly
4) The Avalanches, Since I Left You
5) Daft Punk, Discovery
6) The Beastie Boys, Paul's Boutique
7) Massive Attack, Mezzanine
8) The Ramones*
9) The Stooges, Fun House
10) Sonic Youth, Dirty
Honorable mention: The Rolling Stones, any given album released between 1968-1972

And for the hell of it, here's my "alternate" top ten albums list that I can refer to whenever I feel especially defensive about not really being original or daring:

1) Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band, Safe as Milk
2) Radio Birdman, Radios Appear
3) v/a, Big Hits of Mid-America, Vol. 2
4) Broadcast, The Noise Made By People
5) Amon Tobin, Supermodified
6) David Axelrod, Songs of Innocence
7) Pink Floyd, Obscured By Clouds
8) The BellRays, Let It Blast
9) Tubeway Army, Replicas
10) Atmosphere, Lucy Ford

*I actually had a dream last night that I met the Ramones (as in all the original lineup, alive and everything). I think it was at some sparsely-attented art gallery opening in a warehouse.

The personal favourites of thousands of fans put together will make up something rather close to a "universal" list.

I mean, why are Bach, Beethoven and Mozart considered part of the classical "canon"? Simply, because, over a longer period, a lot of people have liked their music.

What else should I do. I mean, sure, if I tried to create some kind of "universal" list, based on what albums are part of the "canon", then I guess it would look something like this (not necessarily in this order):

Sgt. Pepper
Revolver
White Album
Pet Sounds
What's Goin' On
Forever Changes
Exile On Main St.
OK Computer
Never Mind The Bollocks
The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust

But that is done better with asking a large number of fans in a survey, isn't it?

Trying to make a list of "universal" records that everyone likes just ends up bleeding the life and interest out of those records. (It also leads to "Name an artist you think is HIGHLY OVERRATED" threads which are almost as boring as "Oh no! ANOTHER TOP 100 LIST! OH NO!" threads.)

I think it was in 97th position or something in that Q list, and we are speaking of a list put together mainly by young people. In the last Virgin Top 1000 book, which is based on hundreds of thousands of votes, "Maxinquaye" is at #296. Probably more representative of its position among the general musically interested public.

1/Sparks - "Kimono My House"
2/Loop - "Fade Out"
3/Sundial "Other Way Out"
4/er my wife has been on the f0n3 and now my mind has gone quite blank. The same prog sh!t i always go on about anyway. I went to see Porcupine Tree in Manchester thee other night. They were very good. Will that do?

Well, at least it seems he has considerably better taste than those who love hip-hop, funk or metal then. :-)

The Basement Tapes and Blonde on Blonde -- Bob Dylan
Astral Weeks and Moondance -- Van Morrison
Good Old Boys -- Randy Newman
The Jerry Lee Lewis Anthology
The Man and His Music - Sam Cooke
New Orleans Piano -- Professor Longhair
The Best of New Orleans Rhythm & Blues Vols. 1+2 (Rhino, out of print)
Big Joe Turner's Greatest Hits
At Last -- Etta James
The Velvet Underground
Best of George Jones (Rhino)
Hank Williams's 40 Greatest Hits
16 Lovers Lane - Go-Betweens
I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight - Richard and Linda Thompson
Otis Blue -- Otis Redding
The Clash and London Calling - The Clash
The Best of Louis Jordan
Billie's Love Songs - Billie Holiday (Nimbus)
Songs for Swingin' Lovers - Sinatra
Funky Kingston -- Toots and the Maytals
Wild Gift -- X
Car Wheels On a Gravel Road -- Lucinda Williams
Let it Be -- Replacements
Rubber Soul -- Beatles
Complete Hot 5's and 7's -- Louis Armstrong
Yardbird Suite: The Ultimate Charlie Parker
Thelonious Himself -- Thelonious Monk (JVC version)
Chess Box Set -- Howlin' Wolf
Chess Box Set -- Chuck Berry
Sky is Crying: The History of Elmore James

1. Van Morrison - Astral Weeks
2. The Clash - London Calling
3. Elvis Costello and the Attractions - This Year's Model
4. The Rolling Stones - Exile on Main Street / The Beatles - Revolver (tie)
5. The Stooges - Fun House
6. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
7. Liz Phair - Exile in Guyville
8. Pixies - Doolittle
9. Bob Dylan - Bringing It All Back Home
10. Radiohead - OK Computer

Pretty damn canonical, I know. Sorry.

step forward Nate Patrin (its almost spooky sometimes i tells ya)

1. Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back
2. Scritti Politti - Cupid And Psyche 85
3. Kate Bush - The Hounds Of Love
4. Dexy's Midnight Runners - Searching For The Young Soul Rebels
5. V/A - Low Life's Main Courses
6. Propaganda - A Secret With
7. Stevie Wonder - Song Review: A Greatest Hits Collection
8. XTC - English Settlement
9. Talking Heads - Fear Of Music
10. The Roots - Phrenology

---I'm NOT like you.

yeah, if Best refers to "Best as Being Deplorably Overrated"

the Band - Music from Big Pink
La Düsseldorf - Viva
16 Horsepower - Sackcloth 'n' Ashes
David Bowie - Diamond Dogs
T.Rex - Electric Warrior
Talking Heads - Fear of Music
Motorpsycho - Timothy's Monster
Neu! - Neu!75
the Sonic Youth - Sister
the Stone Roses - the Stone Roses

1. Sly & Family Stone, "There's a Riot Goin' On"
2. James Brown, "Sex Machine"
3. Byrds, "Notorious Byrd Bros."
4. Miles Davis, "A Tribute to Jack Johnson"
5. Big Star, "Third"
6. Elis Regina/Tom Jobim, "Elis & Tom"
7. Howlin' Wolf, "Rides Again" (comp of early '50s material)
8. Marshall Crenshaw, "Field Day"
9. Eno/Hassell, "Fourth World Vol. 1 Possible Musics"
10. Funkadelic, "One Nation Under a Groove"
11. Moby Grape, "Moby Grape"

Could hear any of these, just about any time, never tire of them.

Anyway, here's my current 11:06 am EST Friday 3-7-03 Top Ten. Likely to change within minutes. Based entirely on personal taste.

Mr. Bungle's California
Funkadelic's Maggot Brain
Beastie Boys' Ill Communication
The Roots' Phrenology
Genesis' Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Deltron 3030's 3030
Bjork's Vespertine
Kool Keith's Sex Style
Soul Coughing's Ruby Vroom
Fishbone's Reality of My Surroundings
Ween's Chocolate and Cheese
Talking Heads' More Songs About Buildings and Food
DJ Shadow's Endtroducing...
Fela Kuti's Expensive Shit

And yes I'm aware my top "ten" actually has fourteen albums on it. :D

(1) KILLING JOKE - Killing Joke
(2) THE STOOGES - Funhouse
(3) GANG OF FOUR - Entertainment
(4) KISS - Dressed to Kill
(5) JULIAN COPE - Peggy Suicide
(6) BUZZCOCKS - Singles Going Steady...yeah yeah, I know "no compilations!"
(7) THE STRANGLERS - No More Heroes
(8) QUEEN - A Night at the Opera
(9) THE MISFITS - Static Age
(10) XTC - Black Sea

Rumours
After The Gold Rush
On The Beach
Chairs Missing
Blind Joe Death
Genuine Basement Tapes
World of Echo (Arthur Russell)
Have Moicy

Anyway, Clarke, I think the problem is this. Everyone has their criteria for what they like: some mixture of things being fun, serious, important, definitive, or whichever of a million things might make you like a record. When you say something is your "favorite," you're saying it's satisfies your personal tastes -- your whole set of criteria -- more than everything else. Okay, BUT:

All thinking about objective "best" means is rearranging those tastes. It means not thinking about what satisfies your criteria, but what satisfies some other set of criteria, the one that determines Best as opposed to What I Like Best. And again, there are a million sets of criteria to choose from: usually people arrange them so to elevate "important" or "critically acclaimed. Blueski even names some of these things: in the Best competition we're suddenly giving extra points for popularity or definitiveness or "perfect debuts."

And the idea of this isn't such a weird one: the idea is that we're somehow going to establish some sort of collective criteria, some set of qualities that we've all agreed to like, and that after we've responded to everything on our personal scales, we can bring it all together and rate it on this hashed-out collective scale. This isn't a strange project, but it's sort of a hopeless one, because in the end it comes down to this: we're all sitting around imagining what our favorites would be if we were someone else. We're negating our own tastes and judging by some other standard, which is silly because the great thing about talking about this stuff is finding out other people's interests -- not becoming some ranking committee where it doesn't matter what anyone thinks because the Criteria for "Best" are already posted on the bulletin board.

So isn't it better and easier if we all just say what fit our own personal criteria, not some imaginary other set?

The problem I'm trying to get at is that when you say there's something different called "best," you're saying we should try bringing something else into our decisions. The question John is asking is: what else should we bring? (Maybe his personal criteria already include lots of "contextual" stuff like importance and definitiveness. And if his personal standards define his "favorites," whose standards should he use to choose "best?")

And what I'm asking is: why should we ask John what's "best" if he's just going to tell us what someone else might like the most? 99% of the time the distinction between "favorite" and "best" is that "best" takes into account what other people lead us to believe we should like, or shouldn't like. But there's no point asking e.g. John what the people around him -- us -- make him think he "should" like.

seven songs - 23 skidoo
world of echo - arthur russell
out to lunch - eric dolphy
star time - JB (ok, its a comp...but others have!)
miles smiles - miles davis
funkentelechy vs placebo syndrome - parliament
3rd - big star
theres a riot - sly
3rd - VU
mingus presentd mingus - mingus
trout mask replica - beefheart

A great album, but not among the best 10 albums ever.

G.H., on the other hand, is right to say that TLoL is a great album. For more than that I could not hope. Let us lay that matter to rest.

I wonder, nabisco, if anyone is actually figuring out the overlap. We've done this a million times, and the list never comes out as interesting as we wish it was. I'm more interested in the extras, the ones that other people say that I'd never have thought of in a million years, and then I say "Shit that bastard just made my day with that pick." Examples: More Songs About..., A Night at the Opera, High Land, Hard Rain, and Out to Lunch.

My son's favorites list, which rulez because he's four and a half:
"I'll Be There," the Four Tops.
"Chain Gang," Sam Cooke.
"La Bellena," Fussible.
"Don't Go Back to Rockville," R.E.M.
"Me & Yoko Ono," Tosca.
"Blazing Arrow," Blackalicious.

ABC - Lexicon of Love
Stockholm Monsters - Alma Mater
World Of Twist - Quality Street
Blondie - Blondie
Chic - C'est Chic
X-Ray Spex - Germ Free Adolescents
Propaganda - A Secret Wish
King Tubby - Dub Like Dirt
Human League - Dare
Buzzcocks - A Different Kind Of Tension

Best Compilations and Boxes :

V/A - The In-Crowd 4CD Mod Box
V/A - Joe Meek, The Alchemist of Pop
V/A - Wanna Buy a Bridge
V/A - Studio One Rockers
V/A - Motown Gold
V/A - Rubble 6 The Clouds Have Groovy Faces
V/A - Rubble 11 Adventures in The Mist
Madonna - The Immaculate Collection
New Order - Substance
V/A - 500% Dynamite

Pharoah Sanders: Karma
Herbie Hancock: Sextant
Jonzun Crew: Lost in Space (a guilty secret, I admit)
Yello: Stella
Nightmares on Wax: A Word of Science
Air Liquide: Nephology
Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich
4 Hero: Parallel Universe
Omni Trio: Haunted Science
Dead Prez: Let's Get Free

That's funny, this question became the basis for the creation of the E-Prime style of writing/thinking that eliminated all "to be" words (is, are, were, etc.) so as to emphasize the relativism of everything to the method used for measuring it. I don't know why that's funny, but IT IS.

Alexander "Skip" Spence, Oar.
Albert Ayler Trio, Spritual Unity.
Charlemagne Palestine, Strumming Music.
Tony Conrad with Faust, Outside the Dream Syndicate.
Captain Beefheart & The Magic Band, Lick My Decals Off, Baby.
Bastro, Bastro Diablo Guapo.
The Dead C., Harsh 70s Reality.
Wire, Chairs Missing.
Pearls Before Swine, Balaklava.
Caetano Veloso, s/t (1969 one recorded in England).

Fishbone's "Unyielding Conditioning"
Bjork's "Pretty Rocks"
The Beatles' "Within You Without You"
Kool Keith-as-Dr. Dooom's "I Run Rap"
Rahsaan Roland Kirk's "Volunteered Slavery"
Nelly Furtado's, um, track 8 on Whoa Nelly!
"Book of the Month" from Loveage
Cee-Lo Green's "Closet Freak"
Ween's "She's My Baby" (in a Ween-makes-beautiful-real-song SHOCKAH!)
Genesis' "In the Cage"
The Roots' "Pussy Galore" (lyrics = SPOT ON)

How many is that? It looks like ten, anyway.

XTC's Oranges & Lemons is a fine album, but it's light years away from their best work.

FIRST BEST 10 ALBUMS I REMEMBERED FROM THE TOP OF MY HEAD:
SP - Mellon Collie & Infinite Sadness
Nirvana - In Utero
Pixies - Surfer Rosa
Led Zeppelin - IV/Untitled
Yes - Drama
Genesis - Foxtrot
Mike Oldfield - Crises
Blur - Modern Life is Rubbish
Duran Duran - s/t
Fugazi - End Hits

...and another 5 that came later:

AC/DC - Back In Black
The House of Love - s/t (Butterfly)
Queens of the Stone Age - s/t
Jane's Addiction - Ritual de lo Habitual
Jethro Tull - Aqualung

You wanna go head to head on Kiss trivia/fandom, you just step right on up, Chico!

Bob Dylan - Bringing it all Back Home
Fairport Convention - Unhalfbricking
Anne Briggs - A Collection
The Band - Music from Big Pink
Big Star - #1 Record/Radio City
Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica
Flying Burrito Bros. - The Gilded Palace of Sin
The Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed
Fairport Convention - Liege & Lief
Gene Clark - Flying High
James Carr - The complete Goldwax Singles
Richard and Linda Thompson - I want to see the Bright Lights Tonight
Joni Mitchell - Hejira
Sam Cooke - Portrait of a Legend
Elvis - Sunrise
Elvis - From Elvis in Memphis
James Brown - 40th Anniversary collection
The Byrds - Sweetheart of the Rodeo

The Great 28 -- Chuck Berry
Call Me -- Al Green
The Velvet Underground -- The Velvet Underground
Star Time -- James Brown
Sign O the Times -- Prince
Nation of Millions -- Public Enemy
The Clash -- The Clash (American version)
Highway 61 Revisited -- Bob Dylan
Dig Me Out -- Sleater-Kinney
Indestructible Beat of Soweto

My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
Metallica - Master Of Puppets
Slayer - Reign In Blood
Monster Magnet - Tab 25
Seam - The Problem With Me
Stereolab - Dots & Loops
John Coltrane - Giant Steps
Dr Dre - 2001
Gravediggaz - 6 Feet Deep
Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works II

Loveless - My Bloody Valentine
White Light From The Mouth Of Infinity - Swans
A Sun That Never Sets - Neurosis
Spiderland - Slint
Kid A - Radiohead
A Story In White - Aereogramme
Disintegration - The Cure
Unknown Pleasures - Joy Division
Cold House - Hood
Yanqui UXO - Godspeed You! Black Emperor

Erm... not wanting to get into any kind of philosophical debate as aesthetics, but how is that possible? Do you mean "the most popular"? "The most technically impressive"? How could there be a 'best' in my opinion if it wasn't my favourite?

The two that are both are Miles Davis's Kind of Blue and Sly's There's a Riot Goin' On. I myself regard Riot as the greatest album statement of the rock era. Post-rock or post-1985, I dunno. Kind of Blue is essential to the music of the next ten years at least, rock or jazz or whatever, in its "modalism" and so forth, plus it's really fun to listen to.

In the same vein, the first João Gilberto bossa nova album, Chega de Saudade, is pretty essential to the next decade as well, and the work of a great artist.

The Geir's list I halfway agree with...altho, Genesis and Crowded House, yuck. Sure, Odessey and Oracle is great.

So I think it's a bad question, can't be done. What's "great" to me is so often flawed...I think James Brown is the greatest pop artist of the era bar none, but except for "Sex Machine" (1970), he never made a consistent album, and even that one falters. An album that maintains a unified tone/mood and makes a statement about the world is pretty rare. I mean is "Fun House" or the first Stooges album "greater" than "Radio City" or "Cupid and Psyche '85" or "Tribute to Jack Johnson" (the latter a very great work indeed)? I don't know and I don't care.

The lists above contain good stuff...I'd agree that The Gilded Palace of Sin is great; Pet Sounds, sure, and Wild Honey; Autechre is great, I won't throw anything at that;

I agree that there aren't that many 'perfect' (to me) LPs... which is why I find making LP lists easier, because my poor brain has to cope with less. Whereas with singles I reach "Get Ur Freak On" v "Rent" and it all implodes in a morass of indecision.

Tori Amos, From The Choirgirl Hotel
Tom Waits, Rain Dogs
Portishead, Dummy
PJ Harvey, To Bring You My Love
Björk, Homogenic

(the five I have as a stock favourite list, which I will never fall out of love with even when I ignore them for months)

Black Box Recorder, England Made Me
Princess Superstar, Princess Superstar Is
Missy Elliott, Miss E... So Addictive
Alizée, Mes Courants Électriques
Kelis, Kaleidoscope

(five additions for right now)

i may not listen to these albums very often these days (although i still love them), but they are the albums i've loved,listened to, and obssessed over the most.