Bowie S/D

Is THE LODGER David Bowie's best record?
David Bowie - over-rated or justifiably hated?
another bowie thread (sorry, hey look it's a free country)
OPO: Bowie lyric

This is a very straightforward one. (I would get into why Young Americans is so great, but I have seen how pointless arguing with Geir is.)

http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Othermedia/Pictures/Misc/zairestamp.jpg

Destroy: heh, heh, hehhhh....

Yet, the 90s were a good decade for him, and with "Heathen", last year, he did actually manage to come up with an album on par with at last most of his 70s efforts.

As for "Young Americans", that is not a complete disaster of an album, but it is too "ordinary" when compared to the rest of his 70s output. And I don't like disco so.... :-)

destroy: everything else

destroy most of the rest

if everybody started a new thread every time they wanted to know something or throw their opinion into the ring this ilm resource would be a log-jam

why have people kept responding to this thread rather than reactivating the links nickdastoor helpfully provided if you can't use the search function ? why are people still posting to this thread after nick's post ?

can't people use this web-site properly please ?

I heard the song Blue Jean somewhere in the last week or so, and was amazed. I have not heard that song in about 7 billion years.

i want to sing "Modern Love" as a duet with my cousin...

Young Americans is philly soul + John Lennon ("plastic soul"...get it?) = blueprint for arty-white takes on black pop which would cast a shadow over quite a lot of punk and postpunk endeavors into the same territory...

I presume all Bowie fans here know about Pushing Ahead of the Dame aka the Bowie Songs blog, which has been pretty brilliant -- and today it tackles one of the big ones:

http://bowiesongs.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/heroes/

Heroes is such a drag.

Out.

Aw c'mon, it's the most overrated thing in the Bowie canon. I really don't understand why people place this on such a pedestal.

Search Hunky Dory above all others IMO. The pics in the CD reissue were his best look as far as I'm concerned as well.

yeah i was never keen on "heroes" but i listened to it recently and it won me over (still a few songs im not keen on like "blackout", which is a mess). really like "V2 Schneider" and "secret life of Arabia". "Station to Station" kicks its ass though.

I've never heard the whole thing. I'll look for it right now. Mostly with Bowie I treat him as a singles artist, I'll put on Hunky or Ziggy but other than that Best of Bowie all the way.

I tend to skip it when I play the album.

Haha I finally clicked the link and realized we were talking about the song itself, not the album. There are way better Bowie songs to me. I'd say "Ashes to Ashes," "The Man Who Sold The World," "Space Oddity," "All the Young Dudes," "Life on Mars?," "Ziggy Stardust," "Moonage Daydream," "Starman," "Changes," "Five Years," and especially "Under Pressure" all piss on "Heroes" the song from a very great height.

heh i just came here with that link. pretty great writing imo.

ok wait: checking the "sources" bit at the bottom of the entry, he references "the great, lost documentary Rock & Roll (1995"

i remember really loving/being frustrated by this series when it came out in the 90s. is it really "lost"? guess i'd never checked into it afterwards. i have the book tho!

Most underrated Bowie song = "Stay" off Station To Station. Although, it's largely thanks to his backing band. Haven't heard "Heroes" album though I think Hunky Dory is pretty much unassailable.

live version of "stay" from the 76 tour is unbelievable.

My favorite song from his most dire period:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mv_ex0ju6M

Anyone who thinks "Heroes" is his most overrated album needs to give "Let's Dance" another listen. "Heroes" has a raw, alien beauty none of his other albums has.

I like parts of Hunky Dory a lot, but the middle of it is boring as hell, imo. I've tried.

"Song For Bob Dylan" and the music hall one are terrible.

"...and you'll be FREEEEEEEEEE"

I can't stand "Andy Warhol" either

at least that one has a hook.

and decent arrangement designed to burnish said hook.

that's one boring hook, though, and manages to out-banal the ultimate banal subject

Not a great song, mind you, just better than "...Bob Dylan" or "Bore Your Heart" or whatever that one's called.

well, that's definitely true--something about its acoustic spaghetti western sound just sounds so inappropriate to the subject, it drives me crazy

took me ages to realise both bowie and tiny tim had sung "fill your heart", despite being fans of both albums. Tim did it first btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trWg4hT8z8

Feel like I should mention Quicksand as my second favourite Bowie song.

While most guitarists that took on “Heroes” had to use an Ebow to get Fripp’s sound, playing a sustained run of A notes, Fripp had worked out the feedback patterns on foot, literally. Standing in Hansa’s Studio 2, his guitar routed through Eno’s EMS synthesizer, Fripp marked with tape the places on the studio floor where he could get a feedback loop on any given note. So four feet away from his amp was an A, three feet away was a G, and so on. Fripp stepped and swayed through the song, his sound owed to a simple cartography.

that is so, so cool. wow.

yeah, fripp has never, to my knowedge, used an ebow. I think he did wind up using that gibson sustain thing though which is essentially a build-in ebow, but that wasn't until much later (like the 80's or 90's).

(by 'gibson sustain thing' I mean a Fernandes Sustainer. If anyone wants to play Heros all day long in their home, that is all they need to buy. well that and a guitar. and maybe some soundproofing so your neighbors don't get sick of you)

@ Dog Latin

"Quicksand" was rated #1 on a massive Bowie fansite vote in the late 90s. "Heroes" was #2.
"Outside" and "Hunky Dory" were the top two records. I happen to agree with these results!
Is there even a thread about "Outside"?

Bowie's Outside: C or D?

Outside, eh? Never thought to check it out. I feel like I ought to get hold of "Heroes" and Diamond Dogs first though.

Only listen to Bowie in sporadic but concentrated bursts.

If you can get a hold of the Ryko CD version of "Diamond Dogs", that's the one to have. I love the piano demo of "Candidate".
"Heroes" as an album you can skip if you've heard "Beauty And The Beast".
The five-to-own, in my opinion, are "Hunky Dory", "Ziggy Stardust", "Low", "Lodger" and "Outside".
Then, "Diamond Dogs", "Station To Station", "Scary Monsters".
Then, "A Man Who Sold The World", "Aladdin Sane".
My favourite greatest hits collection is the Ryko "Singles" set, it's got "Absolute Beginners" and the good version of "Cat People"

the good version of "Cat People"

And then there's that wordless piece he did which opens the actual movie IIRC. Pretty brilliant.

Man, there is such a great collection of songs to be culled from 80s-90s Bowie.

My favourite greatest hits collection is the Ryko "Singles" set, it's got "Absolute Beginners" and the good version of "Cat People"

My favorite too, although I disagree about the quality of this version of "Cat People."

Jump They Say
Ricochet
Time Will Crawl
The Wedding
Strangers When We Meet
I'm Deranged
Real Cool World
Dead Man Walking
Through These Architects' Eyes

Man, there is such a great collection of songs to be culled from 80s-90s Bowie.

I'd buy it. Stopped listening to the old boy ages ago but I'm sure he was still capable of pulling out the occasional gem.

My top three "Worst Bowie Moments".

1. "I'm your roommate from Hell...", the single worst moment, from "Baby Universal", the first track on "Tin Machine II', which isn't even the worst song on that record. But it's the moment when you see the Frank Black affectation so transparently, so awfully, I recall it with horror. (And then there's the Sales bros. songs on that record, *shudder*)

2. Tina and David singing "Tonight".

3. "The Cygnet Committee", which isn't so much a moment but a long descent into tedium, like a guy with a guitar on the patio across the street who does in fact know all the words to "Madame George" and then even wrote a few extra verses.

Ricochet

Glad to see someone else rep for this -- I remember the first time I heard this after I actually got the full album and it was such a strange contrast to the big hit singles; kinda puts the lie to the idea that Bowie completely changed course.

Always did like "This is Not America" as well, especially in the context I first heard it in particular -- slithering out of the speakers at a store somewhere in a suburban mall in upstate New York in late 1984.

4. The falsetto, "Life is like a broken arrow/Memory a swingin' door," the grotesque treacly sound of "Shining Star (Makin' My Love)."

"Andy Warhol" is my favorite song on Hunky Dory lol. I just don't claim it to be better than "Heroes." That's like, two totally different things.

@ Alfred those are some good songs! I can't even deal with "Outside", it is so good. I wish Bowie never stopped biting "Nite Flights".

5. DB's take on 'God Only Knows' - the ultimate pointless cover version.

Forgot about "Nite Flights" (and "This is Not America")! Heresy: I prefer Bowie's version.

4. The falsetto, "Life is like a broken arrow/Memory a swingin' door," the grotesque treacly sound of "Shining Star (Makin' My Love)."

Oh god, the worst. A friend of mine was helping out in the Queen studio in Montreaux when he made that record. For him it is a double tragedy, as that album, pre-mix, was something really good

Ohhhhh SHIT!

I didn't realize that "Nite Flights" was a cover! Of course!
I heard the Walker Bros. record long after I stopped listening to BTWN as a teenager.

That is to say, one day I was listening to "Pallas Athena" and I realized it was kinda crap, and I never played that album again. Years later, I heard "Nite Flights" by Walker Bros. and thought, "oh, this is where Bowie got the idea for 'Outside', I suppose."

For him it is a double tragedy, as that album, pre-mix, was something really good

Bowie insists this was the case too, but he undercut his own case by admitting that the demos he and Erdal Kizilcay recorded were very close to the original versions.

David Bowie's "Jump, They Say" - C or D?

― Tom D has taken many months to run this thread to ground (Tom D.)

love the self-referential username Tom ;)

If Outside sounds like Nite Flights era Walker Brothers then I'm all over it!!!

Unfortunately only the first 4 tracks on "Nite Flights" are really good. To even things up a bit, "Nite Flights" sounds like it could well have been influenced by Bowie in the first place.

Definitely - love Outside, my favourite post 1980 Bowie album (and as I said elsewhere the tour was utterly fantastic, live cover of Nite Flights included).

BTWN is a good album; the title track not so good, but I like almost every other track on there a lot. As usual with every Bowie album it was hailed as his 'return to greatness' but I do think that this was actually the point where he started to turn things around. Although, I like Tin Machine too. I really only don't like most of Tonight and NLMD.

It's probably a good place to ask, but what other music sounds like Nite Flights or Stay by Bowie (similar kind of steely white funk aesthetic)?

"Party Hard," Pulp, which is pretty much an explicit combination of the two.

It's probably a good place to ask, but what other music sounds like Nite Flights or Stay by Bowie (similar kind of steely white funk aesthetic)?

I think probably 50% of all bands in the 80s thought this is what they were doing

must contain monotone verses and soaring dead-eyed choruses then.

you need this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La6TJiUoFlw

oh sheeeeit gotta post this too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBmjfFlq0cA

Nice - I only really know Party Fears Two, but I had a feeling someone would mention the Associates.

Kind of amazed it wasn't Ned

Never really thought of the Associates in that vein before now! It was more like 'yeah they're floating off in that bubble over there...'

Yeah, Associates not really "steely white funk" but Bowie + Walker Brothers? You better believe it!!!!!

Oh believe me, THAT I don't question!

Meanwhile I was thinking this morning how strangely appropriate it was that after the various phases and 'last tour'/'retirements' that what proved to be Bowie's last full show was something nobody knew about at the time, including himself. I mean, if he comes back in any full sense with new music, a tour, then great, but I kinda like the idea he took what happened with his health on board, added it all up and went, "You know, I'm good for now" and just let it go from there rather than making any big deal about it. Not quite Garbo but he'd appreciate the comparison, I suspect.

which was his actual last show, then?

did he play much after the lolipop in the eye incident and his heart attack? I don't think he did.

he certainly appears to have retired, although I've also heard rumors that he has an album pending; but he's been almost completely out of the limelight, I haven't seen a picture of him in a few years, and have read varying things about how well he is doing healthwise.

He showed up somewhere and I think he'd just sprayed himself with some cologne
I'd always felt cologne was a vain thing for jerks
But he smelled so amazing that he changed my mind about it

Years later, I found out what cologne it was and it is very expensive.
Wherever he is, I'm sure he smells awesome

Am I the only person on ILX who really likes Fill Your Heart? I think Song For Bob Dylan is the only faintly dudish track on Hunky Dory, and actually it's fine.

I think probably 50% of all bands in the 80s thought this is what they were doing

Yes! I've always taken issue with dismissals of BTWN as sounding "dated." Nothing at the time had that polished electro sheen, burnished with unexpected arrangements (trumpet solos! Reeves Gabrels noise!).

the station 2 station deluxe edition includes bowie live at nassau coliseum in 76 - great concert, great band, funk/rock to the max

Xpost...no 'Fill Your Heart' is fantastic and ' Song For Bob Dylan' whilst being the weakest track on here is still great...basically 'Hunky Dory' is pretty flawless...

btw, did we ever talk about how the entirety of Toy leaked on the internet last month? It is good.

"the station 2 station deluxe edition includes bowie live at nassau coliseum in 76 - great concert, great band, funk/rock to the max"

Great great live recording: cold, futuristic funk rock as played by a bunch of slightly paranoid surgeons - plus Earl Slick!
Stay is extraordinary (it was also included in the old Ryko version of Station to Station).

bowies pr crew (outside get thanked in the credits on reality) playing nice :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180656014799

not so sure i would part with such an item. in fact, i know i wouldn't.

Well, it's for charidee..

Also, "personally signed to the winner by Dave", although that could mean it's been signed already, and someone adds "To mark, best wishes" using the same pen?

Academic book on Bowie out:

http://www.bloomsbury.com/us/enchanting-david-bowie-9781628923056/

Jeez, why am I not the least bit surprised Geir hates Young Americans? Dude's ears are made of rusted tin.

that's strange though. it's ... very melodic, isn't it?

harmonious, even

Not many chord changes though.

Enchanting David Bowie explores David Bowie as an anti-temporal figure and argues that we need to understand him across the many media platforms and art spaces he intersects with including theatre, film, television, the web, exhibition, installation, music, lyrics, video, and fashion. This exciting collection is organized according to the key themes of space, time, body, and memory - themes that literally and metaphorically address the key questions and intensities of his output.

I love Bowie and will fly anywhere to see him if he plays another concert and they just played "Starman" on the radio and I thought to myself that's the best song they've played all week, but I could not care much less for Bowie's fashion/web/cinema output - I don't understand the pervasive drive to cast him as not primarily a great singer/songwriter/musician. Saw the big Bowie exhibition in Berlin (it started in London I think) last year and there was a lot of great stuff but the general perspective on Bowie as "visual artist" wasn't my cup of tea.

Rolling Stone had a big Bowie featurea couple of years ago that focused a lot on the drag/trans/sexual politics aspects of his glam period - don't particularly get this either although I am of course very happy if he has been an inspiring figure to others.

A Danish bio is titled "The Chameleon", and while Bowie surely did a lot of different stuff, I don't know how crucial it is to his rock identity. It annoys me, only slightly, the same way as when people overdo the idea of Dylan as a chameleon-like character...

I JUST LOVE HIS RECORDS

Jeez, why am I not the least bit surprised Geir hates Young Americans? Dude's ears are made of rusted tin.

― Johnny Fever, Thursday, July 16, 2015 5:24 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wouldn't say Young Americans was in my Top 5 favourite Bowie albums, but 'Somebody Up There Likes Me' is all-time for me.

Has this been posted before? It's awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATSTjjEMmuk

"Somebody Up There" is amazing. Really feels like a song that is gliding, hovering of the world.

Title track is all-time. Also love Marc Bolan's knock-off "All Alone" from "Futuristic Dragon".