are Geir Hongro and The Pinefox the same person?

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rockism - check

anti-hophop - check

emphasis on classic songwriting - check

going on about Ulysses all the time - ehhhhh, maybe not.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir prob likes jane austen really.

but otherwise they need to listen to derek bailey. they really do!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Julio, the Pinefox has seen Derek Bailey live.

I don't think he liked it.

And anyone who makes the Geir comparison (OK, I accept it's just a gag) really hasn't been paying attention.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

''I don't think he liked it.''

bah.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

(Surprise, surprise? - Neither Geir Hongro nor The Pinefox has answered "No!" yet)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"hophop" - my least-favourite non-existent genre.

Are Michael Jones and Tomas Radzinski the same person? I don't think I've ever seen them on the same pitch at the same time.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 12 March 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Nope. The pinefox always stuck me as reasonable and not prone to broad, overly generalized "My Opinion == Objective Reality" melodrama.
He also didn't have an evil hard-on for the Beatles and "Melodic Music"; he just preferred it without disparaging *cough*"Non-melodic music" (whetever the phuck that is...)
He also knew when to shut his piehole.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"He also didn't have an evil hard-on for the Beatles and "Melodic Music";"

What about Genesis?

― Charles McCain, Wednesday, 12 March 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Two things that definitively separate them (based only on their posts here):

- style (this is probably a first-language thing)

- intellectual curiosity (this isn't)

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

rockism - check

I am not a rockist, I am a popist. I don't like music with too much emphasis on riffs, too many bluenotes and too loud guitars.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir is definitely a popist. And I find your definition of what seperates Geir and Pinefox curiously misguided Tom.

― S Samson, Wednesday, 12 March 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

As a protestant, I feel that something must be done about all the Popery that has suddenly appeared on my thread.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

PF is always starting threads asking what other people think of songs he likes or doesn't like, how the songs and responses have changed over time, trying to work out the whys of the songs and get fresh perspectives on them. That I find more intellectually curious than Geir's approach, though admittedly Geir's approach usually gets more people talking. But his reaction to them is to put them right rather than try to coax more out of them, as PF does.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't help it DV, my man, I am a Catholic!

Tom I was just pointed out that your subjective intepretation cannot be used a fact about Geir.

― S Samson, Wednesday, 12 March 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

No Geir is polite.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm. But you can also read his posts as is he were a shaggy street crazy screaming his madness out on a street corner. Strangely, it makes his posts sound much more believable that way. Imagining someone saying what he says, with a completely calm tone of voice, is unnerving. Like listening to Big Brother speak or something.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I am not a rockist
I suppose the ILM definition of rockist as put forward by Mark S et al. will never become common knowledge. What I remember was that rockists prefer albums to singles. Following this definition you haven't shown yet that you are not a rockist, Mr Hongro. I myself am definitely a rockist though the great time of the album seems to have passed. Contemporary albums are too long (filling the CD) and hardly ever perfect. For each classic on an album today you get at least one dud. Albums don't flow as before. The sequencing is determined by marketing strategies nowadays and not by esthetic criteria.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Thursday, 13 March 2003 06:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i like a lot of the music that the prototypical "rockist" hereabout seem to like (i.e., how could someone with a Zappa fixation like mine not be a rockist in some sense?) but intellectually, i agree more with the anti-rockists, in that (a) i see no superiority in albums over songs (or vice-versa); (b) i don't really give a toss about "authenticity," "realness of feeling," "classical" songwriting, etc. (i.e., i have no use for the blues or "roots-rock"); (c) while i'm not totally immune to the "millions love it so it must be lowest-common-denominator crap" argument, such an argument is more of an augmenter and less a clincher in deciding whether i like a song or performer or not; (d) if a performer is at least entertaining i can cut him/her an awful lot of slack (while those who are "earnest," "sincere," "passionate," whatever get no points if their output is crap); (e) "but they play their own instruments!" or "they use 'natural' instruments (as opposed to synthesizers, studio tricks, whatever)" and other such arguments carry no weight with me.

so am i "rockist" or not?

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 13 March 2003 06:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(i.e., how could someone with a Zappa fixation like mine not be a rockist in some sense?)

What little I know of Zappa hardly seems rockist or prone to be appreciated that way at all except for ppl. who totally misunderstand him -- i.e. ppl. who focus on his guitar solos & virtuosity in which case I'm like listen to fucking steve vai already and ditch the wacked humor. In so far as I can find a way to like Zappa its in his complete not getting (or at least getting entirely differently) of classical jazz and pretty much every genre/musical mode he ever toyed with. Like if Cheech and Chong rilly wanted to exercise Shakesperian chops or something and insisted "those classic plays are really funny you know" (which they are, but not in the way Cheech and Chong would find them funny, I think -- except maybe they are in that way and only cheech and chong would be able to find that humor, which i guess is the point).

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 13 March 2003 08:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I myself am definitely a rockist though the great time of the album seems to have passed. Contemporary albums are too long (filling the CD) and hardly ever perfect. For each classic on an album today you get at least one dud. Albums don't flow as before. The sequencing is determined by marketing strategies nowadays and not by esthetic criteria.

I agree with that somewhat. Still, the English Indie/Britpop scene (save for "Be Here Now", obviously) is still keeping album lengths down. Artists like RHCP and Smashing Pumpkins would probably have been making better and more consistent albums too, if they had been able to stop at 50-55 minutes.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 13 March 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

What I remember was that rockists prefer albums to singles
Actually thats the criteria of an "Albumist"; A Rockist is someone who has a pompous bigotry against anything that isn't "Rock" and dismisses all non-"Rock" out of hand.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 13 March 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The Vicar is an apostate - he must not be trusted.

I have seen him worship in halls of papery in times of yore.

― tigerclawskank, Thursday, 13 March 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

No, the Dirrty Vicar was defrocked and excommunicted...because he was toooo dirrrrty.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 13 March 2003 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

sterling: yer points are all well-taken. i think that the nub of what i was trying to say is, that i find it ironic given the hatred of rockism and Zappa round here that Zappa might well have been one of the least rockist old-time rockstars. i've also found it especially telling that some "anti-rockists" slag Zappa in what appear to be suspiciously "rockist" terms (esp. in comparison to Captain Beefheart -- i.e., Beefheart was the "real thing," he was a "real" weirdo vs. Zappa was a "fake" weirdo). not saying that one should like or not like anything, but i'm just mentioning it in passing.

all of which is kinda far afield of this thread's topic!

― Tad (llamasfur), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 06:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually thats the criteria of an "Albumist"; A Rockist is someone who has a pompous bigotry against anything that isn't "Rock" and dismisses all non-"Rock" out of hand.

Iow. he'd hate most of my favourite acts as they aren't "rock" enough. :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

is Geir a rockist popist or a popist rockist?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a really funny reply to that lined up but I thought better of it.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

is Geir a rockist popist or a popist rockist?
the word you're looking for is satanist.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

My funny reply was along those lines but featured a nasty word for vagina.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Custos's definition of "rockism" is ~~incorrect~~ not mine (mine has as its model: "rock::rockism<=>sex::sexism").
In my world there is no such thing as a popist therefore (or rather, "popist" is an unnecessary word, meaning ppl who are rockist abt pop...)

I think Geir's position is far too alien and severe to be rockist. It's only a couple of steps less extreme than judging LPs by the number of cuts on each side... I wish he'd expand on the detail more and state the principle less (like: how does one distinguish between a good and a bad melody...)

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

actually, my definition has become (more sophisticated/sublime) since I posted the "Scourge of Rockism" thread back in the dark ages.
Recipe:
Think Up 12 good things about Rock.
Think Up 12 bad things about Rock.
Take the 12 good things to be and assume they are incontrovertable, sacred facts.
Ignore the 12 bad things, and attack anyone who brings them up as heretics.
Go make Album Lists, Album Lists, Album Lists

For "popist" do the same thing, but replace the word "Rock" with the word "Pop" and change "Album Lists" to "Singles Charts"

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

five years pass...

No they're not.

― Dom Passantino, Sunday, 25 May 2008 20:43 (seventeen years ago)

Can we ban this guy?

― Free Peace Sweet!, Sunday, 25 May 2008 21:10 (seventeen years ago)

anti-hophop

― akm, Sunday, 25 May 2008 21:30 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~leonid/images/sheet/folk/hop_hop_viola.gif

― PappaWheelie V, Sunday, 25 May 2008 22:19 (seventeen years ago)

moderato request board

― PappaWheelie V, Sunday, 25 May 2008 22:20 (seventeen years ago)

There was a time, before hophop, when popular music was a polite discourse in which the artiste would, respectfully, invite the listener to consider some of society's more pressing shortcomings, or possibly reflect on a girl he would really like to talk to but lacked the level of self-confidence required to take on such a Herculean endeavour. Nowadays one is more likely to encounter a performer aggressively denouncing "bitches" as not being "shit" but "hoes" and "tricks", or threatening to "bust" his "homeboy's" "bubble". Perhaps if Stephen Pastel were to be invited to join the cabinet with a widespread brief to execute every last one of the vile churls who listens to this garbage then the world would become a more pleasant, and civil, place.

― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 25 May 2008 22:38 (seventeen years ago)

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