Exactly which of Geir's criteria for a good pop song doesn't "Baby one more time" meet?

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Apart from the singer having written the song herself.

― man, Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I would think the "singing" itself would be a large part of it.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

The main criteria it doesn't meet is it was written by an outside songwriter for a puppet "artist" rather than released by a singer/songwriter. (Max Martin should have been an artist himself) Other than that, it is definitely a melodic pop song, but not necessarily a good one.

I think a positive thing about Max Martin was that his songs had classic pop song structures though. I mean: They had verse, chorus, usually a bridge too, and the choruses had a full melody - often contrasting with the verse, and never just a brief phrase being repeated over and over.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, the problem about Martin's songs were they all sounded exactly the same, just like Stock/Aitken/Waterman's did ten years earlier.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

(Max Martin should have been an artist himself)

er, what if max martin has a rubbish voice?

― michael wells (michael w.), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

er, what if max martin has a rubbish voice?

He used to be an artist himself back in Sweden. The problems about Max Martin were:

- He was 10 years too old
- He wasn't good-looking enough

None of which were musically relevant, but still highly relevant for corporate music biz people.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

You still admit to liking some of the Motown puppets, even if you don't respect them, so the artistic integrity issue is hardly enough to stop you from liking something. I agree that many of is songs sound the same, but exactly which of his earlier songs was "Baby one more time" a ripoff of?

(The production was pretty clever, too.)

― man, Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I am not too keen on the Motown puppets. But I respect Holland/Dozier/Holland a lot, for writing considerably better songs than Max Martin has ever done.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

How can you people still be arguing about this banal blip on the pop music radar? I thought the whole point of pop music was its inherent disposability. It served its vile purpose, and should've been digested and shat out by now....no further reason to discuss it, nor the whistleheaded replicant that "sang" it.

― Alex in NYC...Resident Righteous Rockist (vassifer), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, max martin was a singer. i asked "what if?". some people can sing, some can write songs, to ask that every popstar fills both criteria is ridiculous.

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 13 March 2003 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

some people can sing, some can write songs, to ask that every popstar fills both criteria is ridiculous.

I find the songwriter so much more important than anybody else, so if he isn't able to sing properly (which hasn't prevented Bob Dylan nor Tom Waits from releasing their lots of albums with their songs on them), then he should start a band and find a singer who is a big fan of his songwriting and who will loyally follow his instructions. That way, he will have a voice forever associated with his songs, and maybe - being a band member - he will get the attention he deserves himself too.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 13 March 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...

hey guys, i wanna try and start a band, i was wondering, what do you think makes a really good song, like i dont wanna be one of those shit pop groups, i know good lyrics are important, but what should i write the song about?

― demi, Sunday, 23 April 2006 01:24 (nineteen years ago)

Necrophilia.

― jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Sunday, 23 April 2006 01:26 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah. And Chinese food.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Sunday, 23 April 2006 01:35 (nineteen years ago)

fantastic

Geir, out of curiosity, do you have the same problems with the composer/performer split in classical music?

― Sundar (sundar), Sunday, 23 April 2006 02:19 (nineteen years ago)

i do! fuck that normal dudes writing for castrati. if you want to so much, put yours on the chopping block.

― salty hot potatoes, Sunday, 23 April 2006 04:33 (nineteen years ago)

bros before hoes

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Sunday, 23 April 2006 04:46 (nineteen years ago)

and I know Geir may have dealt with this as there are a hundred geir threads, but what does Geir think about pre-beatles pop?

― Period period period (Period period period), Sunday, 23 April 2006 05:20 (nineteen years ago)

God Geir is a fucking idiot.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Sunday, 23 April 2006 06:48 (nineteen years ago)

That just about nails the problem.

― Ricky Nadir (noodle vague), Sunday, 23 April 2006 06:52 (nineteen years ago)

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