Did Hardcore kill punk?

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Or did it simply find punk's corpse and urinate on it?

― David Allen, Monday, 17 March 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought prog killed punk.

― die9o (dhadis), Monday, 17 March 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

emo ruined punk. posers killed it. and good riddance.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 17 March 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I always figured Hardcore (and I mean bands like Minor Threat, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, etc.) streamlined Punk. But, both are dead now, of course.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 March 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

No.

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Monday, 17 March 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

i think hardcore ... and i'm talking about early and mid 80's hardcore and not anything called hardcore later... i think it first took punk's aggressiveness to a new level and that was great... but then became this force for exactly the kind of oppression punk was against.

hardcore eventually created a scene that demanded very stringent musical criteria to be punk. it also demanded an aggressive attitude and male machoness. so in a sense, hardcore became a serious conservative force in punk's thought processes.

you'll notice that many of hardcore's earliest originators moved on to something else about 6 months later.

hell, even in the hardcore revivals of the 90's, a lot of those kids moved onto something else.

did it kill the ethos of punk? i don't think so. look at groups like the sun city girls or men's recovery project today. etc. etc. all very punk. all very open to the next step.

― msp, Monday, 17 March 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

hardcore gave punk a new life, a much longer and more interesting one.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 March 2003 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

It killed it for me because a lot of the people around me were terribly narrow-minded because they came out of hardcore. Anything more creatively ambitious was labelled as "bullshit", and I didn't get into post-punk for that.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 17 March 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Punk: Lived Fast, Died Young.
Hardcore: The spirit that got trapped in by Punk, then freed after punk died.
Post-Punk: drained of hardcore.

― rex jr., Monday, 17 March 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I think what killed punk is that it became boring, and left the underground. and Hardcore did make punk much less creative fr me. therefor Hardcore-Punk is Boring.

― rex jr., Monday, 17 March 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/hardcore1.html

Pleae follow Jess' advice and see the broad spectrum of Hardcore.

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Monday, 17 March 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't say Hardcore was Boring. NEVER EVER!
Hardcore-Punk is.

― rezx jr., Monday, 17 March 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry - I did read that article a long time ago. Dude, I was there and I still hated it, sorry.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 17 March 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Just got back from the Fuck By Fuck You sub-festival at South By Southwest so I'll have to say no, no, no, no, no.

― Pete Scholtes, Monday, 17 March 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

All those early 80's HC 45's and theres a bazillion of em from every corner of the globe will probably end up being being compiled and collected like nuggets and rubble by our children.(in the year 2018 boy looks up and asks dad where were you when the Honduran Piss ants not to be confused with the Toledo Ohio Piss ants recorded their seminal Ass biter single? Of which only 14 copies are known to exist.)

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Punk's not dead. Don't make me put up another GC photo.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

punk is dead???

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Hardcore extended punk's life and maybe even saved it. Interesting how many media reports simply write it out of the picture - like, first there was the Clash and Sex Pistols, and then a few other bands, and then Sid died...and then nothing much happened for years until Nirvana magically sprung out of Aberdeen. That's a whole different thread, though.

― mike a (mike a), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

And a photo of GC would prove what?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Nirvana==Punk-Revival????!!!

― rex jr., Monday, 17 March 2003 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Pebbles and Nuggets were so much sexier, sorry. Let's cut the crap - hardcore is music for guys because you can't dance to it and it's no fun.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Being a Limey whose first love was the Damned,buzzcocks then Undertones etc etc, discovering bands like Minor threat, Bad Brains,Black Flag, DRI,the almighty punk that Flipper was..........Even fucking 7 seconds etc etc etc was such a refreshing and well needed antidote to the gluey,bumflapped shit that was the Exploited, GBH etc. Then came Husker Du, Die Kreuzen, Squirrelbait......... thank fuck for US punk.

The Ramones.

― panico (panico), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i luv Crass, yeah they were Punk and Hardcore but they were arty, it's somehow different.

― rex jr., Monday, 17 March 2003 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

HC was like a crappy desert after a great meal

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's cut the crap - hardcore is music for guys because you can't dance to it and it's no fun.

don't play the gender card KK, my XGF turned me onto to so much great HC (and some mediocre stuff)... she made me rethink my position on bands like last rights and bad brains to a very satisfying result.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

It turns out the plural of anecdote WAS data all along!

― Ferg (Ferg), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Most people I know who were into it while it was happening are now into Rap, Jazz or Electronic music..

― brg30 (brg30), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth because when I started college, I had been listening to WBMX, which played hip hop, electro and house, and I got so much shit for that from the hardcore kids because it was too "commercial". They were anti-dance and anti-electronics and they expected all white kids to relate to that. You couldn't like that and like punk at the same time - it's the truth, as much as they would try to deny it. Some of them even said to me, "why are you listening to that black station?"

― Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Killed it for me, pretty much, back then. For all the reasons Kerry mentions. I'm able to appreciate it more now, back then I hated those uptight johnny come latelys. Haha, "I was a punk before you were a punk", haha.

― Arthur (Arthur), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Kurt Cobaine said he hated hardcore.

― David Allen, Tuesday, 18 March 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Kurt Cobaine said he hated hardcore.

So fuckin' what.. He also said he loved Courtney Love.

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Kurt Cobaine [sic] said he hated hardcore.

And that matters why?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Because he's saying that without hardcore, there'd have been no Nirvana, yet, Kurt hated it.

― David Allen, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Kurt hated himself, and yet, he formed Nirvana.

Kurt hated K Records/Olympia/Candace/Calvin, and yet, he had a K Shield tattoo.

hrrrrmm.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 05:18 (twenty-two years ago)

conclusion: he was a dumb sonofabitch who occasionally knocked out some good tunes

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 05:21 (twenty-two years ago)

esoj u r otm

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 06:09 (twenty-two years ago)

conclusion: he was a guy who contradicted himself a lot, just like everyone else. god forbid.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 06:11 (twenty-two years ago)

hardcore suxx u r all gay

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 06:12 (twenty-two years ago)

(it is often "more than just music" but rarely, musically, about "more than just hardcore." for most of the reasons kerry describes. pigfucking for those without the intestinal fortitude to reall alienate people. politics for those who think ripping off the nation from borders every so often makes them noam chomsky.)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

also, let's be frank: it has taken "hardcore" TWENTY YEARS to embrace (even tentatively) electronics, dance, new wave, hell ANYTHING that wasn't detuned rasping mush. my article was posted to some punk message board and it got raked over the coals by some MRR writer because i featured bands like (heaven forfend) in/humanity or men's recovery project: bands 9/10 of people would be hard pressed to describe as anything but "hardcore" (or at least "painful.")

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

and i was thinking about this the other day: how many bands really traced over the hardcore template and did anything particularly noteworthy with it after minor threat or the first handful of black flag 7"s (and maybe - on a good day - damaged)? (the bad brains don't count cuz they were ALREADY including weirdo dub instrumentals inbetween each rumpus room attack.) even back at it's inception the best bands were using it as a springboard into their own particular obsessions. (do any of you honestly play land speed record more than zen arcade? the first meat puppets album over II or up on the sun?) and they were immediatley being derided as sellouts/art students/cranks/delete as necessary.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 06:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Worthwhile for turning into deathmetal at the very least

― dave q, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

No, it did not. Hardcore stagnated with the whole NYHC scene (Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, etc.), but didn't kill punk certainly. The hardcore bands of SST (Meat Puppets, the Flag, Husker Du, etc.) basically turned into indie/college rock or broke up; I'd be hardpressed to call The Dead Kennedy's hardcore anyway; they were a punk band, so I discount them and their scene.

Hardcore, to me, is worthwhile between 79-82 (maybe 82) and then (approximately) 89-now; between those points it was mostly stagnant boring crap. In the early nineties there were plenty of great hardcore bands, many of whom were very short lived because they realized that if they kept doing it they'd just repeat themselves. With the advent of what Jess likes to call "pigfuck" noise/hardcore, it got interesting again--Lightning Bolt, Sightings, Pink & Brown, Neon Hunk, Hair Police--all of that scene is interesting because it's not all short/loud/fast, but it is a definite, solid scene--people are friends, bands who don't sound alike tour together, but it all retains the energy and the "fuck you" attitude of hardcore, which hardcore originally took from punk in the first place.

― Ian Johnson, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

eleven years pass...

even back at it's inception the best bands were using it as a springboard into their own particular obsessions. (do any of you honestly play land speed record more than zen arcade? the first meat puppets album over II or up on the sun?) and they were immediatley being derided as sellouts/art students/cranks/delete as necessary.
― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, March 19, 2003 6:23 AM (11 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

to answer your question: this week, yea

― Rae Yellamo -- Throw Summ0))) (bernard snowy), Thursday, 19 February 2015 16:06 (ten years ago)

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