messaien:c/d s/d

another book request

and I spelt his anme wrong too.

Quatuor pour la fin du temps

Turangalîla -symphonie

Quatuor pour la fin du temps

Trois Petites liturgies de la présence divine

The latter is my favourite. I find the solo piano & solo organ pieces hard going, though not w/o their moments.

has lots of info. obv, OM is classic for me!!

My favorite Messiaen piece of all time is "Et Expecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum"... the main theme just tears into you from all angles, then the piece slowly quiets down for an amazing sequence of nothing but rolling gongs, for minutes it's just cascading white noise rolling up and down, punctuated by endtime blasts from the horns. I just couldn't believe what I was hearing the first time I played it... my favorite recording is the Boulez on Erato, but I should hunt down some others.

My favorite piano work is Vingt Regards Sur L'Enfant Jesus . Specifically the Anton Batagov version; he plays it impossibly slow. It usually fits on two discs, he fills three with it. Also, it sounds like it was recorded from the far end of a cathedral, it floats in the air. The Yvonne Loriod-Messiaen performance is good too, kinda jaunty... would love to hear some other recommendations.

Also essential, as mentioned above: Trois Petites Liturgies, Turangalila. That Quartet's great too. I also love the last movement of Visions d'Amen.

For an easy way in to the Messiaen organ works I'd recommend La Nativité du Seigneur, it's beautiful and very concise. The later ones get progressively more abstract but if you have the time they certainly reward you. I have the set recorded by Hans-Ola Ericsson on Bis, but the Erato series has some great recordings of Messiaen playing them himself...

Yikes still typing. I must admit I've never been able to get into the birdsong stuff. I try and try and I just start drumming my fingers on my own skull and then reach for some Kraftwerk.

can someone plz post on this.

mark s where are you?

I'll have to search those piano pieces first, if they are collected on one CD (and I'll have the conversations with... book too for info).

But Boulez has not to my knowledge recorded my favorite of the big orchestral pieces, Des Canyons Aux Etoiles. I've heard both the London Sinfonietta recording and Myung-Whun Chung conducting a French group and would recommend either one (although I don't actually own either).

Julio -- your birdsong question came up before I submitted my post, so I'm adding just a bit: First, the birdgsong elements often crop up where you wouldn't expect them, side-by-side with stuff based on plainchant and loosely serial passages. There's a lot of it in Chronochromie and Des Canyons (despite the cliched notion that birdsong belongs in the flutes and other high woodwinds, Messiaen often scores it for keyboard and mallet percussion instruments, which he favors for their agility). But the "purest" of the birdsong works is the Catalogue d'oiseaux, a solo piano work that spans several volumes. It is fascinating but may test your patience.

btw, I saw a series of lectures in San Francisco when the opera here did St. Francois last season (although I didn't see the opera itself). One guy talked about the Australian lyre bird and played video/audio footage. OH MY GOD it was the most bizarre thing I've ever seen/heard!

were these piano pieces in sonata form or...what? (I said the word sonata => its getting too musical for me).

(if if find that recording dleone yeah I'll start with that, it all depends on what i find on the racks at the shop)

haha, I doubt it. Messiaen wasn't really down with the whole classical thing (ie, rigid structures in music, old forms, etc). I don't think he ever wrote any sonatas or concertos or anything (I remember him specifically voicing his distaste for Stavinsky's neo-classical music). This music is more impressionistic, with birdsong, and apparently some depiction of the location of the birds. It was written at the same time as his Catalogue d'Oiseaux.

"éclairs sur l'au-delà," his last completed work is tops as well. and throw in "saint-françois d'assise" if the idea of a 4 hour-long opera doesn't scare the skin off your face.

it took me a surprisingly long while to warm to his music. i think his single-mindedness and liberal use of repetition are a little off-putting at first, but god is in the details.

I've heard that said quite a bit. I remember something about the odd halting rhythms in "Vingt regards..." clicking immediately, as with no other composer.

However, I did initially overestimate the, erm, literal nature and accessability of his birdsong transcriptions, and expected to discern more clearly birdlike sounds in that vast Catalogue d'Oiseaux. Instead it has taken a more protacted effort than any of his other pieces (where the birdsong elements are often present anyway)! Must keep in mind, of course, that he was composing analogues of spiralling galaxies etc elsewhere. :)

I like the way he left behind a large body of work without many agreed stand-out moments, such that the recommendations on this thread are so varied. Still lots of listening to do then...

These are probably the recordings I dig most of all:

That Boulez disk with the aforementioned "Chronochromie" and "Et Expecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum" etc on DG.
The Naxos disk with "Four Rhythmic Studies" and "Canteyodjaya" where the piano rhythms might be among his oddest.

this is one of the main characteristics of 'la transfiguration...' as well: these unheard-of-rhythms, yet odder stoppages....varying the amount of orchestration when the chorus/solos are introduced back setting up this at times furious triangle of activity was another thing.

listening to 'mediattions sur le mysterie de la sainte trinite' piece for organ (and this versh is played by olivier himself, its on erato) - one cut ends w/some cecil-like stuff but its so-so quiet, reaching on the edges of perception; another ends on a heavy crunching slabs, edge-of-yr-seat stuff.

Ka-pow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv67YkOWJNA

TURBOCHARGED version of "Joy of the Blood of the Stars" from "Turangalila-Symphonie". So powerful, and it seems to be being played mainly by a bunch of kids! NB the pianist, playing his parts from memory! Wow.

Thanks!

Ws listening to the Hans Rosbaud recording of that last week (Baden-Baden in '51 ws where it ws at baby!)

The thing that seems like it would be interesting about that Rosbaud recording, as with pre-stereo Rite Of Spring recordings, is to get to hear an orchestra actually STRUGGLING a bit with this supposedly-crazy modern shit.

Really awesome to see so much love on this thread for Trois Petites Liturgies. It's one of my OM favorites, maybe my favorite, but I thought it was neglected/overlooked by most. Nice to be wrong on that.

Not too sure about that...I can imagine it sounding kinda mushy with the recording conditions obscuring further.

There ws a programme broadcast a few weeks ago about birdsong and whether they sang for pleasure or for purely functional purposes (attracting females and so on). Anyway Messiaen's use of Birdsong ws briefly mentioned.

I think Trois Petites Liturgies was the first one I bought.

There was a South Bank show (UK weekly arts tv prog) about OM probably back in the '80's now, it made a big impression on me, I'd never heard of him before then. I'd love to see it again, actually.

Ws he interviewed on that?

ITV should really repeat some of those South Bank shows on their digital channels.

what was the conclusion re pleasure vs functional purposes?

the actual answer is SHEER FUCKING HILARIOUS JOY incidentally when it comes to blackbirds, anyway -- they do this call-and-response thing* with a pal where the resonse repeats the first half of the call, then they try and top each other with comedy-warner-brothers-cartoon-soundtrack endings in the second half

*outside my bedroom window for example

He was, yes. (xpost)

Well, scientists interviewed on it were all for functional. The programme ws presented by this sound artist type who doubled up as a researcher who ws there to challenge them on this.

I can't remember all the details exactly (really fascinating, I remember trying to come up with experiments to try and see how could one verify this further one way or the other).

experiment: be around an animal

(this is a pet* peeve of vick's which has rubbed off on me)

*HA!

Messiaen POV / POX

less conversation & dialogue, more soulless listing please

(& thanks for youtube link, pashmina, tons of messiaen there that wasn't last time I checked. still hoping someday someone will upload this one documentary I once saw of the man strolling through the forest, walking around with a sketchpad, cocking his ear to the right to listen to birdsong & then pausing to 'write it down' -- hilarious and transparently staged but still kind of awe inspiring)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/jobhosle/Page_1.jpg

Don't know how many of you are in London but this is on at the South Bank through the next year or so.

"experiment: be around an animal"

They showed an experiment where a cellist tried to duet with a bird.

Matt - Nice! I think there will be an all Nono fest later this year. I'm sure there is a programme around that site somewhere.

Just picked up a set oif his work cos it seemed to be in good nick in a charity shop for 4Euro. 1908-1992 is the title.
Don't know his work overly well so not sure if this is representative. Looked good anyway.

If it's this one that's a pretty good deal for 4 Euro!

https://www.discogs.com/release/4099442-Olivier-Messiaen-1908-1992-The-Collectors-Edition

Solid performances

"Turangalila" is one of the monumental works of the last century.

https://www.discogs.com/release/8375450-Olivier-Messiaen-Olivier-Messiaen-1908-1992-
is the one

6cd not 14

Interesting and completely different.

The dates are his lifespan so maybe not that strange that they would be used for more than one set.
Looked interesting so I grabbed it. Wound up with the Irish classical station Lyric FM on towards the end of the course i did and I think some of his work turned up on it. Seem to be a lot of box sets turning up in the charity shop this week. THought about getting a Gilbert and Sullivan one yesterday but discs looked really dirty.
But looking forward to listening through this