4AD - classic all round?

Anyway Mark, sorry, but more clunkers than gems : Wolfgang Press, His Name is alive, Heidi Berry(!), Scheer, Xymox, Frazier Chorus, X-Mal Deutschland, Spirea X, Swallow, Pale Saints.... all useless.

Funnily enough, I'm always impressed by Pale Saints when I hear them. For an anonymous early-90s indie outfit, they are remarkably EXCITING to listen to.

When were Frazier Chorus on 4AD? I like Frazier Chorus.

My favourite 4AD band haven't been mentioned yet I don't think - Ultra Vivid Scene. Their first two albums were stunning, but pretty much ignored at the time... I was listening to the 12" of "She Screamed" the other day and it still sounds really fresh.

Similar arguments apply for Factory (Joy Div sell Crispy Ambulance thru association), except they didn't *literally* apply an overall look n' feel to the 'product', except that they often used well designed sleeves. Not many of Peter Saville's creations looked 'the same' though. Factory also neglected some of the other details, like getting records in the shops etc.

2. Tom E - so YOU have an Editor as well? I thought you WERE an Editor.

Though some of the bands I find a bit precious or dated now (Xmal Deutschland was utterly godlike at the time, but I find it a bit silly now), there are enough really solid artists that came out of the 4AD stable to make me respect them an awful lot: Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, His Name is Alive, Pixies, Throwing Muses, This Mortal Coil, Colourbox, MARRS and Lush, to an extent. While I didn't embrace them wholeheartedly, I respected Wolfgang Press and Dif Juz. And don't forget that 4AD also featured early releases from Bauhaus and Birthday Party.

One contentious issue: While I like the 4AD aesthetic, I hate what Ivo did to Lisa Germano's first album. When it first came out on Capitol, I thought it was a beautiful work...gentle in places without being fey, rootsy without being Johnny Cougar, and an album with both heart and guts. Then 4AD "remixed" it, and took off all of the edges...which were, I thought, the album's high points.

Pshaw. 4AD did waaaay more good than bad for me. There was some tragedy: GusGus, lisa germano, Xmal, colourbox, HNIA, Red House Painters, etc. and that was unfortunate.

p.s. didnt 4AD release The The's first record Burning Blue Soul? or did they only re-issue it? that record is disgustingly amazing, and could carry their roster all by itself (if it was part of it).

The Birthday Party were briefly on 4AD as well, so big respect there.

I recall buying the single with the redish brown cover on the same day I bought the Robert King post scars band 'Astronut' single... I could always spot a winner me.

Nobody seems to mention the pre 'etheral' goth 4AD period - Mass, Rema Rema, Birthday Party, Bauhaus, etc... 4AD definately took a bit of time to find its stride.

I saw Modern English once, in the middle of a park in Dunfermline. They stank too, one of them had a 'flock of seagulls' type haircut.

Mark, don't forget that for a while it was impossible to stroll the picturesque, leafy boulevards of LS6 without bumping into a member of Cud. How there was never a supergroup called The Harolds I'll never know.

IF THEY HADN'T EXISTED, IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN NECESSARY TO INVENT THEM

1/ Killdozer

2/ The Catherine Wheel

3/ Cud

All three of which seemed very odd indeed to bring up in an unfaves of 2000 piece. If it had been an unfaves of 1993, it would have been a wee bit more understandable.

Anyway -- the original supposition is of course wrong. There's been crap, with *the* crappest one being the decision to release a live album by LA's Paladins, a somewhat inessential bar-band blues outfit that's been doing its thing for over a decade now to mass indifference. Ivo must have been sick, and if MarkH likes it, MarkH is equally ill.

However, there's oh so much to love (he said, staggering under the weight of his Cocteau and Pixies and Birthday Party and DCD and This Mortal Coil and Kristin Hersh and etc. etc. releases). I'm pleased to see both the Pale Saints and Ian Masters get mentioned -- he's got this cryptic web site now that occasionally has news on it, but seems more to be a way to keep himself amused.

Side note to Momus -- yeah, what was that one guy who led the band thinking?

One World - 4AD Label special

This week's One World Show on Radio 1 features: One World: 4AD Label Special

<em>This week on One World, tune in for 25 years of the 4AD Record label - home to the likes of The Pixies, Bauhaus, The Birthday Party, Dead Can Dance, The Cocteau Twins, Throwing Muses, Mojave 3 and The Breeders to name but a few. </em>

» One World

[Reminder, this show has a listen again feature - after broadcast for upto 7 days]

sounds very joy division !

Rema Rema is a must!

The early 4AD 7" by The Past Seven Days is one of the most precious records to me in my entire collection. I still flip over that, to this day.

(a kind of take on the word "diffuse" iirc)

THat biography Facing the Wrong Way was an interesting read. it was in FOPP as one of their 2 for £5 items at the beginning of last year i think.

djh, you want the Natures Mortes - Still Lives comp, for early-era 4AD stuff

xp actually book is called Facing the Other Way: The Story of 4AD by Martin Aston

Thanks - Hadn't seen that (entertaining) Rough Guide to ... thread before..

Posting it here so I can find it speedily:

The Rough Guide to 4AD Records:

1. Bauhaus: Double Dare
2. Throwing Muses: Call Me
3. This Mortal Coil: Song to the Siren
4. The Birthday Party: Nick the Stripper
5. The Wolfgang Press: Kansas
6. Belly: Seal My Fate
7. Dead Can Dance: Anywhere Out of the World
8. Clan of Xymox: After the Call
9. Pixies: Where Is My Mind?
10. In Camera: Fragments of Fear
11. Lisa Germano: ...a psychopath
12. His Name Is Alive: Why People Disappear
13. The Breeders: Hellbound
14. Lush: Scarlet (Scar version)
15. Ultra Vivid Scene: Mercy Seat
16. Red House Painters: New Jersey ("Rollercoaster" version)
17. Dif Juz: No Motion
18. Unrest: Make Out Club
19. Pale Saints: Time Thief
20. Cocteau Twins: Frou-frou Foxes in Midsummer Fires

"Natures Mortes".

And, ta, I was pondering this.

also the CD version has five more tracks than the vinyl

^that's a weird list.

Since This Mortal Coil were basically the 4AD house band you could do a lot worse than just listening to the three TMC albums. Filigree & Shadow is my favourite and one of my favourite albums of all time.

The Rough Guide?

Yes, although I guess every list would be weird.

I guess that song choices are very subjective ... I think, more generally, it misses out on the early years, though.

With the first track of 4AD's first ever album ("Double Dare"), plus another EP track from the label's first year ("Fragments of Fear"), I'm not sure I can agree with that. Not that I have any interest in defending or promoting this particular weird list from other potential or actual weird 4AD lists, mind.

The Rough Guide threads are indeed very entertaining! I'd not thought of them for years when your request jogged a neuron. :-)

And for some reason I feel a strange urge to listen to Dif Juz I've not had for even more years.

oh wait, there's this as well:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Facing-The-Other-Way-The-Story-Of-4AD/release/5238954

Volume One: 1980-1989
1-1 –Dif Juz Hu 2:53
1-2 –The Birthday Party Zoo Music Girl 2:37
1-3 –Throwing Muses Hate My Way 4:05
1-4 –Rema-Rema Rema-Rema 4:27
1-5 –Dance Chapter Anonymity 4:53
1-6 –Matt Johnson Time Again For The Golden Sunset 3:52
1-7 –Bauhaus Dark Entries 3:52
1-8 –Clan Of Xymox No Human Can Drown 3:26
1-9 –B.C. Gilbert* / G. Lewis* Barge Calm 1:06
1-10 –A.R. Kane Sado-Masochism Is A Must 3:19
1-11 –Cocteau Twins Musette And Drums 4:38
1-12 –Le Mystère Des Voix Bulgares Schopska Pesen (Diaphonic Chant) 1:28
1-13 –Richenel L'Esclave Endormi 6:44
1-14 –Modern English Gathering Dust 4:23
1-15 –Ultra Vivid Scene Mercy Seat 4:07
1-16 –In Camera Die Laughing 4:35
1-17 –Pixies Tony's Theme 1:52
1-18 –Colourbox Baby I Love You So 3:18
1-19 –XMal Deutschland* Geheimnis 3:19
1-20 –Dead Can Dance In Power We Entrust The Love Advocated 4:11
1-21 –Pieter Nooten & Michael Brook These Waves 3:11
1-22 –This Mortal Coil Song To The Siren 3:32

I can't really vouch for CD2 but it goes like this:

Volume Two: 1990-1999
2-1 –Tarnation Game Of Broken Hearts 3:03
2-2 –Lush Laura 3:27
2-3 –GusGus Blue Mug 4:12
2-4 –His Name Is Alive As We Could Ever 2:40
2-5 –Kristin Hersh Me And My Charms 4:18
2-6 –Unrest (2) Make Out Club 4:21
2-7 –The Wolfgang Press Honey Tree 2:54
2-8 –Tanya Donelly Mysteries Of The Unexplained 4:52
2-9 –Frank Black The Vanishing Spies 3:39
2-10 –Michael Brook Slow Breakdown 2:34
2-11 –Starry Smooth Hound Coco Crush 4:42
2-12 –The Hope Blister Dagger 4:55
2-13 –Heidi Berry Only Human 3:54
2-14 –Mojave 3 Mercy 4:48
2-15 –The Breeders New Year 1:57
2-16 –Pale Saints Hair Shoes 5:48
2-17 –Cocteau Twins Road, River And Rail 3:19
2-18 –Red House Painters Take Me Out 4:47
2-19 –Lisa Gerrard Sanvean (I Am Your Shadow) 3:51
2-20 –Lisa Germano The Darkest Night Of All 4:41

That's a pretty solid set, interesting choices

i didn't really get the Dif Juz name until anatol_merklich mentioned it. So it's pronounced Dif Yuz then?

The Richenel track is a true gem and his vocal on "I Must Have Been Blind" wrecks me.

Music from Memory did the good job of reissuing Richenel's mini-album La Differencia last year. This is probably the prime cut from it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Avjl-FDg9k&list=RD8Avjl-FDg9k&t=45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Avjl-FDg9k

sorry to go off on a tangent.

x-posts.

Thanks Jed_ - Disc One is exactly what I was looking for - I can only find it as a hideously expensive version but it gives me some titles to Youtube or the like.

Bought "1980 Forward" - the 25th anniversary compilation - for less than a couple of quid. Has some good tracks but ... the label had stopped caring by then, hadn't it?

Am Friday night drunk and compiling volume 3 of a fairly drunkenly compiled third disc of a 4ad best of.

What would appear on your Disc 3 of a 4ad best of?

what's the timeframe?

I'd certainly put this on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlIb34ElJ4A

No particular time-frame although I do have an idea that there are bands that have been on 4ad that I don't regard as 4ad bands, Tindersticks being the obvious one. I'd include Bing & Ruth, though.

Mostly the comps have been permutations of Air Miami, Breeders, Cocteaus, DCD, Lisa Germano, GusGus, HNIA, Mojave 3, Pale Saints, Pixies, Red House Painters, Tarnation, Throwing Muses and Ultra Vivid Scene ... and outliers from compilations.

Was hoping someone would (by coincidence) suggest a (great) track that I owned but had dismissed.

Insides? Spirea X? TMC? Lush? Belly?

Was that a repress of a Cocteaus LP I just saw in rough trade?

Yeah, was head over heels

https://thevinylfactory.com/news/two-cocteau-twins-lps-reissued-vinyl/

Though I included a That Dog song on Vol 3, I tend to think of the Guernica stuff as slightly separate (possibly because the Insides and Spoonfed Hybrid albums are two of my favourite *ever*.)

I don't own much This Mortal Coil (going to buy some of the re-issues), not keen on Belly and only like the odd Lush track (particularly "Desire Lines") though I'm open to the idea that I have just heard the wrong tracks.

Any thoughts on current 4ad? Anything worth exploring?

I think that between Aldous Harding, Holly Herndon, Big Thief, and The National they've had a pretty stellar year so far.

There's no longer a "4AD sound". It's just curatorial imprimatur that someone on staff found the artists, if not the current release, excellent. My fandoms moved on to other curiously similar brands (A24:film::4AD:80s rock), but I'll at least give every 4AD artist a listen.

I like the new Holly Herndon, though it doesn't flow so well as an album (or collection of avant compositions). Its closer to where I expected music to be now (30 years ago) than most music.

Had a massive 4ad "rediscovery" over the last year or so which has probably helped me to find Harding and Herndon (both would fit on "the curated 4ad", I'd guess).

https://www.mixcloud.com/camp_fr/arcane-delights-28th-november-2020/

Glen Johnson's Arcane Delights - a 4AD special.

I quite like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PuqlOTyJt0

(Dry Cleaning)

Genuine 4AD rejection letter. 1980. pic.twitter.com/HMs9SACgc5

— Steve @ Pressing Matters. (@HarbingerSound) April 16, 2022

“TRY VIRGIN”

So I did a little guide for the first two decades

https://theshfl.com/guide/pre-millennial-4ad

The absence of Xmal Deutschland is because I essentially ran out of room. The absence of the Red House Painters is incredibly intentional.

> Kurt Ralske’s final album as Ultra Vivid Scene was also that artistic guise’s creative high point

so wrong about this... 8)

and i can't find page 2 where you obviously talk at length about pale saints.

Pale Saints were also on the 'where can I squeeze them in' list, believe me. (But Comforts of Madness is in my shoegaze guide over there.)

As for the UVS claim, DJP agrees with me -- as does, famously from on here, Kurt Ralske himself!

Ultra Vivid Scene (and anything else Kurt Ralske's done) -- C/D?

Joy 1967 - 1990 or whatever it's called is one of my all time favorite albums.

Great little primer Ned. Each of those albums is a classic. The omission of Pale Saints is almost unforgivable though!

It was a hard call, but the limit was 20 and I'd reached the point where I wouldn't forgive myself if I left out the solo Kristin or Lisa Germano in particular.

Well, that's fair. It really is an impossible task to pick just 20 from such a fertile period in the label's history!

You made up for it by leading your list with House Tornado, though. Absolutely the best Muses album imo and seriously underrated to this day. Mexican Women still slays me.

Much as I respect your views Ned I can't help but wonder at citing licenses and ring-ins like Unrest and Lisa Germano as core 4AD - even Mojave 3 were Creation refugees. For a 20-from-20-years I'd be tempted to do one per year. 1980 is tough - Gilbert/Lewis 3R4 is probably best but violates my own ring-in rule. 1981: Matt Johnson Burning Blue Soul. 1982: Cocteau Twins Garlands. 1983: Xmal Deutschland Fetisch. 1984: This Mortal Coil It'll End in Tears. 1985: DCD Spleen and Ideal. 1986: Cocteau Twins Victorialand. 1987: Lonely is an Eyesore with a regretful nod to Sleeps With the Fishes. 1988: Throwing Muses House Tornado (regrets to Surfer Rosa). 1989: Pixies Doolittle. 1990: Breeders Pod + Pale Saints Comforts of Madness (regrets to Heaven or Las Vegas). 1991: The Wolfgang Press Queer (past peak but so much fun). 1992: The Birthday Party Hits (OK, cheating, but Spooky is lousy, sorry, and In Ribbons is caught between aesthetics. OK, UVS Rev, I'll agree there). 1993: I guess I can't deny Breeders Last Splash but I prefer Spoonfed Hybrid. 1994: Hersh Hips and Makers with regrets to Clear Skin and Lush Split. 1995: Kendra Smith Five Ways of Disappearing or if she's a label refugee, The Amps' Pacer; I like the Tarnation album too but it's not 4AD for me. 1996: His Name is Alive Stars on E.S.P. (their perfect record). 1997: uhhhh I will skip. 1998: really lost interest here, the Hope Blister record was awful. 1999: not much for me here either.
After such intense fandom I was done by the millennium. Since then I've been pleasantly surprised when new music I like is on 4AD, feels like catching up with a friend. Dry Cleaning, Deerhunter, Holly Herndon, Grimes, nice ones.
(by the way I was guided by this very nice site for the year by year releases: http://4ad20.themysteryparade.com)

1998 had Kristin Hersh's Strange Angels (better than Hips and Makers), and 1999 had Brendan Perry's Eye of the Hunter... The Hope Blister album WAS disappointing.

disagree on Strange Angels ... and the less I hear Brendan Perry sing the happier I am

2005 was the first year 4AD had zero new releases I cared about or bought

It's amazing to me how many shared experiences Ned and I had in life. Both growing up in Southern California sharing the same love of music for the same type of bands. I do agree with others that Pale Saints is the biggest omission. Pale Saints are one of my biggest loves in the world so of course I would say that. I do understand only 20 spots but they needed to be included. My Clan of Xymox pick would have been the debut as it was a gateway for me and very personal. I love Mojave 3 but my go to album is Out of Tune. Loved that you picked Treasure over Las Vegas. To me 4AD are about This Mortal Coil, Cocteau Twins and Dead Can Dance.

You are so much more educated than I am in regards to this stuff so thanks for sharing Ned.

Loved what you wrote as well matttkkkk, a lot of stuff to check out.