C/D: Pavement's post-Wowee Zowee career

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While obviously not as fresh and daring as their previous outputs, I still think that 'Brighten The Corners' and especially 'Terror Twilight' don't get their fair shake. While I admit they lack that magic spark that ignited 'Slanted & Enchanted', they're still very solid. I think it's because most of the songs have this feeling of resignation in the pace and delivery (i.e. 'Type Slowly' or 'Anne') and the only song I can see fit in the pre-Wowee Zowee era would be 'Carrot Rope' (which makes it a perfect "closer" to Pavement's career). Anyway, I think 'BtC' and 'TT' are definite classics in retrospect.

― Alex Huynh, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i have to say that i find everything post-wowee zowee mediocre in the extreme. shady lane was,...passable at a push. but, no, dud i'm afraid

― gareth, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I really like "Brighten the corners". Its a kinda summery, melancholy record and I dont think theres a bad song on it. "Old to begin" slow- burns nicely and "We are underused" is the closest they get to a bona fide anthem. The main thing I dont like about "Terror Twilight" is the rockers like "Platform blues", they sound way to sluggish and unfocused as does "Folk jam". It's not bad but I dont really listen to it that much.

― M, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

can i have your cd if you don't listen to it that much?

― ernest, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

sure!

― Michael Bourke, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Brighten the Corners--classic, classic, classic. "Embassy Row" has gotta be one of the best songs Pavement recorded. Really.

― adam, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

mmm, I thought there already was a Pavement C&D. Or should we also have a Pavement search & destroy post-Brighten the corners ;) Anyway BtC is a good album, not as good as Wowee though.

― Omar, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Fine.

Search: Type Slowly, Shady Lane, We Are Underused, You Are A Light, The Hexx, Carrot Rope, Starlings of the Slipstream, Transport is Arranged, the last part of Speak See Remember, Harness Your Hopes (b-side of Spit on a Stranger), Westie Can't Drum (b-side of Stereo).

Destroy: Cream of Gold, Platform Blues, Date w/ Ikea, Folk Jam, Passat Dream.

― Alex, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I guess a relating sub-question would be, what do you think of Nigel Godrich's work on TT? Did it make an impact on the finished product? Was it too "glossy" and calculated for Pavement?

― Alex, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Hidden Search: Give it A Day (off the Pacific Trim EP)

Your father/ And I wanna mention him again/ Coz I met with him last night/ He hates my guts/ We had a fight and he called you a slut/

― JM, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

BtC is GRATE, slow and anti-rock for the most part, but lovely and with all the cute quirks we've come to expect. Also, the guitar solos are teriffic. Pavement live from this period is even better. TT I find tedious. Feels somewhere between forced and simply forgettable.

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

"DATE WITH IKEA" IS THE Firkecnen best song on BtC

― aulophobia, Saturday, 7 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Personally Terror Twilight is my favorite Pavement album. I think it sounds more them than a lot of their work. I hate Slanted & Enchanted because it just sounds way too much like Fall-worshipping tripe. You can't do The Fall unless you ARE The Fall. But everytime I say Terror Twilight is my favorite the rotten tomatoes are thrown within seconds. Oh well.

― Melissa W, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

(Reaches for fruit, winds up arm, sudden emotions of resignation and compassion wash over face, arm goes limp, shrugs, takes a bite of tomato)

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I like Brighten the Corners A LOT, although I have to say I rarely listen to it all the way through. But any album with 'Transport Is Arranged' on is worth having. There are so many phrases, musical and lyrical, that stick in my head. "The lib-er-als say they don't exist but I know that they do"
"You've been chosen as an extra in the movie adaptation of the sequel to your life"
"A voice coach taught me to sing, he couldn't teach me to love.... all the above"
D-rer der de-der, D-rer der de-der, D-rer der de-der, De-da-reh-deh-reh-deh reh-duh!!

I only have a sampler of 'Terror Twilight'. It sounds good to me.

One thing to definitely SEARCH is a track on the Major Leagues EP called 'Decouvert de Soleil'. The most fun Pavement track of them all.

― Nick, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

...and the cover of Killing Moon is as good as ev'ry one sez.

― JM, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm somebody who didn't start listening to Pavement until Wowie Zowie, and I really liked it. When I finally got around to picking up Slanted and Enchanted I was totally umimpressed. When I eventually sold it to a second hand record store, I thought that it was pretty funny because the guy behind the desk commented that he thought it was the most over-rated album of that year. I'm a big Fall fan, and for all the comparisons to them, I honestly don't see it. If the conditions for being a 'Fall Clone' are that the lyrics should be audiably discernable, but difficult to resolve into to any specific 'meaning', then there must be a tonne of Fall Clones out there. In any case, I think that any Fall comparisons are long past being applicable to them, and if anything, the new Steven Malkmus album reminds me a lot of Dylan, in terms of storytelling and song structure.

― Alan Hunt, Thursday, 12 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I think Nick brings up a good point: BtC has the most memorable lines, most of them are embedded in my head forever and randomly pop up in the weirdest of situations.

― alex in montreal, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

two months pass...

Maybe I'm not a "deep" enough fan to understand it, but I have all of Pavement's full lengths, and I frankly don't understand all this rigid sectionalizing of Pavement's output. Their sound didn't really change that much from start to finish. Every album was good, but overall I prefer "Crooked Rain Crooked Rain" and "Terror Twilight." My _least_ favorite would probably have to be "Brighten The Corners," since I found Malkmus's voice was really grating on much of that album.

― Jack Redelfs, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I've always found BtC to be terribly mediocre ( and, on "Type Slowly", downright awful), but listening to it the other day, I found its half-arsedness to be its best quality. Its completely aware of its own failings, yet can't be bothered to offer up anything better. It asks nothing of you and gives nothing back, save for a few messy hooks and a bit of literate nonsensical non-poetry. So, perhaps this'll be my future album of choice when I'm too tired to emote.

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

two years pass...

Personally Terror Twilight is my favorite Pavement album. I think it sounds more them than a lot of their work. I hate Slanted &
Enchanted because it just sounds way too much like Fall-worshipping tripe. You can't do The Fall unless you ARE The Fall. But everytime
I say Terror Twilight is my favorite the rotten tomatoes are thrown within seconds. Oh well.

-- Melissa W (MelCarame...), July 11th, 2001.

I'm with you on this one, Melissa W, whoever the hell you are. Why did people have such a problem with this album? It's wonderful! People are so fucking weird, ya know?

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 23:41 (twenty years ago) link

It's the Grateful Dead-ish jam band tendencies that come to the forefront on Terror Twilight, scott, and those are an easy target for everyone to pick at. I personally think Terror Twilight has some really excellent moments, but together isn't as strong as anything else they've done.

― Serya (Z_Ayres), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 00:22 (twenty years ago) link

I like the hit ballads.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 00:23 (twenty years ago) link

I never liked "Type Slowly" but there are beautiful things on "BTC." "Terror" is the one I listen to most these days--and yep I like the hit ballads except for "Shady Lane." I saw them several times in '95-'96 and I always thought they'd simply outgrown a lot of their audience. "TT" feels end-of-the-line, crepescular to me and that's what they seemed to be aiming for so seems to me they did what they set out to do. I don't get the above comment about Grateful-Dead-style jamming on "TT" either, those instrumental sections seem pretty well-integrated into the songs to me. They may've lived all over the USA but they always felt like a west coast rock band to me and that in my opinion seems to be the grand backdrop to all their catalog, from the Shasta Gulch to the final epicenter.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 02:15 (twenty years ago) link

Anybody get that new bio book on them yet, or is it even out yet?

― 57 7th (calstars), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 16:47 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, I have the book. It's out.

It's nice, but it doesn't tell me much that I didn't already know. (Granted, I am a bit of an obsessive Pavement fan.) It's good, but not great. I would've been more into a book that analyzed the music rather than offered a bio of the band.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 17:01 (twenty years ago) link

Id rather hear the bio actually. I'm always up for a good story, and I can analize the music myself.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 18:23 (twenty years ago) link

I bought it and found it enjoyable. I was looking for more of a bio though. It focuses on the time of the early eps and S&E.

The press clippings were nice.

And the Pavement Influences list. ha ha ha Eagles.

Post modernism wasn't mentioned once.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 18:32 (twenty years ago) link

I would've been more into a book that analyzed the music rather than offered a bio of the band.

OTM x 10.

Which is why this Alex Ross article I stumbled upon yesterday was so interesting to me.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 18:32 (twenty years ago) link

That Ross article is excellent.

I feel that most of the Perfect Sound Forever book is somewhat redundant because so much of its content was covered in Lance Bangs' Slow Century documentary. Too much of PSF is made up of information regurgitated from articles about the band which I had already read because I've been obsessive about the band since around the time CRCR was released. It is somewhat telling that one of the main selling points of the book are the reviews from various publications reprinted verbatim - at its best, the book is a nice scrapbook of odds and ends of interest to hardcore fans. The prose itself seems like a middling college term paper about the band.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 18:52 (twenty years ago) link

thats all otm. especially the writing. i felt like I could have done a better job of it.

I still liked it.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 18:56 (twenty years ago) link

I actually didn't know that much about the early history of the band, but the writing really got on my nerves. Also: Jovanovic says at one point that Crooked Rain Crooked Rain sold a MILLION COPIES!!

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 19:01 (twenty years ago) link

It might have sold a million world wide. I remember someone from Matador saying on one of the Matador boards a while back that CRCR is almost gold in the US after all this time. That's 500,000 copies. It's not improbably that it sold another combined 500,000 around the world. Or maybe they are counting how many copies have been pressed/shipped to date, I don't know.

Didn't Doolittle recently go platinum in the US? It may take longer for some records to sell a million copies, but if they have big enough of a cult, they eventually will.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 19:08 (twenty years ago) link

Never Mind the Bollocks hasn't gone platinum yet, right?

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 19:10 (twenty years ago) link

Good, its a piece of shit.

When is the new edition of Crooken RainX2 supposed to come out?

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 19:17 (twenty years ago) link

I might be wrong, but CRCR deluxe is supposed to come out later this year.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 19:20 (twenty years ago) link

I hate this reish deluxe craze; rather, they should put out a b-sides record for those of us who don't have access to all the odds and ends. But that probably wouldn't be profitable enough.

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago) link

Nah, if they weren't doing the reissues, they'd be releasing less material. I doubt that they would've bothered to unearth the Gary Young versions of CRCR songs if they weren't making a special reissue of that particular album. They probably wouldn't have officially released the "Stray Slack" concert either. This way, hardcore fans get a lot more than the stuff which they probably already have.

Plus, it's nice to have all the eras collected in nice neat 2cd sets.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 20:30 (twenty years ago) link

That Ross article is awesome! I really hope the x2 CRCR is out later this year, I could do with a little more Pavement.

All Pavement's albums are my favourite Pavement album for the moment when I'm listening to them and they precisely fit my mood.

― John Cei Douglas (John Cei Douglas), Thursday, 3 June 2004 09:27 (twenty years ago) link

I should add, in favour of the reissues, the S+E 2 cd reissue is one of the nicest music packages I've ever bought. It feels all complete and lovely.

― John Cei Douglas (John Cei Douglas), Thursday, 3 June 2004 09:28 (twenty years ago) link

terror twilight is the best pavement album...

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 3 June 2004 09:29 (twenty years ago) link

I love Terror Twilight quite a lot, and I'll always defend it, but that doesn't change the fact that it is my least favorite Pavement record (not counting Westing). TT has excellent songs, but is missing a bit of the spark which is present on the other Pavement albums and the two Jicks LPs. I think it has a lot to do with the tense circumstances of its conception/recording.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:01 (twenty years ago) link

I've actually lost my copy, somehow. All I know is that at various points I've thought both "Spit on a Stranger" and "Major Leagues" are the most beautiful songs ever.

― John Cei Douglas (John Cei Douglas), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:03 (twenty years ago) link

"Major Leagues" and "Cream Of Gold" are my two least favorite Pavement album tracks.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:17 (twenty years ago) link

Which isn't to say that I don't like them; I do.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:18 (twenty years ago) link

I haven't heard TT in several years, but I seem to remember liking "Cream of Gold" for some reason (maybe a guitar part or chord progression?). Anyway, if I ever decide to re-buy all the Pavement albums, I'd probably think twice before picking up TT.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:34 (twenty years ago) link

Wow! Least favourite? That's nuts! I have to love "Major Leagues" alone, if only for the line "You kiss like a rock/but you know I need it anyway". It seems like such a melancoly summer song, to me. All wistful happiness/sweet sadness.

― John Cei Douglas (John Cei Douglas), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:39 (twenty years ago) link

Top 5 Reasons why TT is essential:

01 The Hexx (even though it is a lesser version of The Hexx, it is still The Hexx)
02 You Are A Light
03 Speak, See, Remember
04 Spit On A Stranger
05 Carrot Rope

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:44 (twenty years ago) link

Ugh, I always have and always will hate Carrot Rope.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:45 (twenty years ago) link

Billie >>>> The Hexx
Major Leagues >>>> Carrot Rope

― Michael B, Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:50 (twenty years ago) link

The Hexx >>> almost everything

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:53 (twenty years ago) link

Well, the "real" Hexx, anyway.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:53 (twenty years ago) link

See, I really liked that song at first (its kinda Sabbath-y, no?), but it wore off on me. Still the line about Architecture students is classic

― Michael B, Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:57 (twenty years ago) link

The "architecture students" line is only in the later album version, which is very good, but not nearly as amazing as the version that they played live on pretty much every date of the BTC tour. That version was rocking all the way through, and had this amazing bridge/solo. The "I...I...I...I saw you" parts were the verses, rather than just a single part of the song.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 3 June 2004 12:01 (twenty years ago) link

*cough* and Major Leagues unless you're CRAZY!

― John Cei Douglas (John Cei Douglas), Thursday, 3 June 2004 12:06 (twenty years ago) link

Ooops. Late entry.

― John Cei Douglas (John Cei Douglas), Thursday, 3 June 2004 12:07 (twenty years ago) link

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