Guitarist muso question : the Nile Rodgers sound

Agree about reverb and chorus.

**and the rhythms decide if they are playing 'you' well enough**

Dave, is this the guitarist's equivalent to 'the songs just write themselves. Hey, I'm just a lightning conductor, maaan'.

We’ve begun our examples with a couple of exercises in rhythm playing and tips on how to create your own funky grooves. The first thing to understand is that 99% of funk guitar parts are based on semiquavers, or sixteenth notes. In 4/4 (four main beats to the bar) each beat is sub-divided into four.

Even if you’re only playing a chord (or single note, the technique remains the same) on, for example beats two and four, you should be hearing those sixteenths notes. Remember to bear this in mind, for without it you will never be allowed to wear knee-length platform boots and strut the stage with an Afro the size of a Salvation Army bass drum!

The guitars used were an early Japanese Squier Strat and a 1967 Gibson 335, through a Bass GX700 pre-amp direct to a Roland V5880.
Guitars, arrangements and backing; Kit Morgan...

"

For more on this with tabbed examples, diwnloadables sound files and even a chic pastiche go to here:
http://www.totalguitar.co.uk/tec_article.asp?ID=22&Channel=BFF&type=TCH

TOTAL GUITAR is a brill mag.

Had completely missed -- and feel very bad for missing -- the news that Nile's been struggling with prostate cancer, an operation and the aftereffects. He's got a running blog up about the experience:

http://nilerodgers.com/blog/walking-on-planet-c

After seeing him last year at EMP all sprightly and hilarious this is a heck of a shock.

He is so completely OTM in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF-XDf_jf5w

Indeed.

In answer to the OP, the key to Rodgers' sound is that his signal is split: apart from going to an amp, he also DI's it, i.e. by plugging directly into the desk and using the channel's preamp to bring it to line level. The sound you hear on the records is a blend of the mic'd amp and the DI'd signal. Both signals are heavily compressed, but there are no other effects audible in his most famous recordings.
Michael Jackson's Billie Jean is another example of this technique.

That video is fantastic, particularly the bits where he's playing Le Freak in slow motion and revealing all these ridiculously subtle hidden notes

This guy is basically the greatest musician ever

Great vid

I love the part where he shows you how most people play le freak wrong.

Rhythm guitar and solo guitar are two things so different from each other that it's really impossible to compare. But as far as rhythm guitar goes, he has few equals.

Generally I think people underestimate how much of the funkiness comes from the technique itself as opposed to the guitar/amp/effect combo. Not that I'm so great at Nile Rodgers-style playing, but I generally find that just developing your control over your left-hand cutoffs/muting and the tightness of your righthand picking (don't try to get away with that loose, swingy bullshit when you can't play tight) makes a big difference. But I totally agree about using very little reverb or other effects.

Watching that video was kind of a revelation though, in re the three-notes-at-a-time thing.

Generally I think people underestimate how much of the funkiness comes from the technique itself as opposed to the guitar/amp/effect combo.

Don't funk guitarists largely use a rather clean style? I agree that funk guitar is more about techique than FX. Heavy rock guitar, now that is something else.

Well, I've heard a lot of sloppy sounding effects in supposed funk playing. The best ones certainly play clean. But I was more responding to the original post, even though it's rather old.

Nile on the money and Hurting too. All kinds of great guitar players from Bucky Pizzarelli to Steve Cropper are really careful about damping/muting the strings that are not sounding notes and not letting the other strings ring longer than desired, as well as choosing which voicings or parts of voicings they want to use. Wanting to play all six strings at all times and letting them all ring out may be the guitar player equivalent of the practice room bass player who has to turn the bass knob all the way up because, after all, it's a BASS!

I love how Niles name drops George Van Eps and then later musically quotes Chuck Berry's "Memphis, Tennessee" and it's all completely cool and appropriate.

That video is great. Someone who's been around as long as he has and done as much as he has could easily be a total dick, but he always comes over as just the nicest guy on the planet.

This section from his first blog post really gets me:

It was foggy - just before dawn. The song that popped into my head was “Let’s Dance”, and I started walking. At 1.3 miles I reached my local diner. I went in for a cup of coffee.

“We Are Family" was playing and the whole staff was singing along. I said, “Wow, that’s my song!” And they looked at me like I was nuts. I’ve known everyone in this eatery for about twenty years - but none of them knew I co-wrote it. My eyes welled up with tears. Crazy. I know that people generally don't know what songs composers write - but this was "We Are Family", written by Bernard Edwards & Nile Rodgers, both residents of this town. For some reason, I felt really hurt. Tears were now flowing...

Cancer is horrifying. It makes you think a lot. My ex-partner passed away and most people don’t realize many songs they sing along with every day he did. Maybe, I was just afraid of dying and feeling sorry for myself - cancer also makes you do that. But my sadness was real. Cancer is a humiliating disease and I wanted to feel dignified about something. I wiped the tears from my eyes and told the diner's staff that I wrote the song they were singing. I finished my coffee, smiled, hugged everybody and waved goodbye.

My morning walks now have a dual-purpose. Do everything in my power to heal and try to put cancer behind me - and share the "Good Times" and happy memories of a lost songwriting partner to anyone who’ll listen. We did fun music meant to lift the spirit - and I'm proud of it.

After I left the diner I sang "We Are Family" to myself, three times - in its entirety... all the way back home.

love that video, damn

VegemiteGrrrl otm. And yeah, that exact passage got to me too.

I wonder about his personal wealth. If he spent wisely he must be as rich as a czar.

Yeah. You'd hope that over time he'd be pretty smart about financials but you just never know.

The photos he's put up on his Facebook page are fun...him and Grace Jones at Studio 54, backstage with Rick James, old Chic Organization pics, even old family photos. Love how open he is with his fans.

i know that nile rodgers didn't play on "off the wall", but i think of him every time i listen to it (so much pristine studio guitar funk).

Was just learning some Sister Sledge and Diana with my guitar teacher. He told me Nile Rodgers used to practice banjo a lot, and ever since he mentioned that banjo's really become apparent in the playing. He also pointed out a lot of these alternating notes on the high E string that don't technically alter the chord (even though they change the way they sound), plus the aforementioned rhythmic muting.

Everybody who said 16th notes is technically correct, but what seperates the post-punk buskers from real funkateers is the latter use SWUNG 16th notes, alternated with straight 16ths. If you can swing 8th notes its the same idea, just applied to 16ths; or think of it as those swung 8ths played twice as fast. Niles plays pretty fast on some tracks, so it took me a while to work up to that speed while keeping it swung.

Also, don't play whole bar chords, bass notes and all. I think that video above mentions it, but playin g around with the different parts of a chord, muting some strings etc. is a grat way to make your grooves more interesting.

Then get an old Fender Twin or Valve, and go for a clean, dry, pure tone, like 3 (treble), 4 (mid), bass fairly high. Add a little compression and you should be close.

the nile rodgers giggin tips clip above is pretty much the greatest thing ever posted on the internet.

Generally I think people underestimate how much of the funkiness comes from the technique itself as opposed to the guitar/amp/effect combo.

this is true no matter what style (or instrument) you're playing.

technique >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instrument/amp/effect combo.

For sure. It's vital that you stick to the top three or four high strings, too, like he says, and avoid playing the whole chords. Otherwise you come off sounding like this oddly aggressive jazzbo.

^^^hmmm, that's interesting; this has always been my instinctive playing style (highly rhythmic focus on the D through high E strings and only throw in the low E and A strings for accent and color). This must be why I suck at rawk!

I feel like a softer plectrum would be advisable for a Nile-esque sound-- thoughts?

If you really want to get serious, don't just learn Niles stuff. Learn everything he learned growing up, like Curtis Mayfield, George Van Eps, all of Hendrix's work etc.

I'm quite a hypocrite when it comes to this though.

Pierre Menard's Nile Rodgers by Jorge Luis Borges

http://nilerodgers.com/blog/planet-c-blog-roll/284-walking-on-planet-c-bittersweet

The dude's cancer free right? Awesome news.

He said on Twitter that he finally got his hands on unissued Chic masters from waay back, an album's-worth maybe, and has been tweaking that material, maybe recording w current Chic too (and def. something with Nona Hendryx). He's been cagey about it. We shall see.

this sounds great, can't wait to hear the vocal version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blkk3rrRXiE

Yessss

He gives the backstory---still not sure if incl. any of the recent recordings mentioned on twitter (not mentioned here), but either way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AqXaZUlAu8

tight

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153038464586878

a truly magnificent Rodgers/Michael Portillo reaction shot featured from 7:10 here

(bunch of videos here too)
http://mofidelity.co/7-lessons-we-learned-from-nile-rodgers-london-electronic-arts-festival-06-03-15/

that i'll be there clip has me excitedddd

I hope that between "I'll Be There" and "Sugah Daddy" dubby space horns become a big thing

no one thought that ‘Get Lucky’ was going to be the insane hit that it was. In fact, the predicted big hit from ‘Random Access Memories’ was supposed to be ‘Lose Yourself to Dance’. ‘Get Lucky’ was intended in a way as the ‘opening act’ for ‘Lose Yourself to Dance’, hence the latter’s higher production values.no one thought that ‘Get Lucky’ was going to be the insane hit that it was. In fact, the predicted big hit from ‘Random Access Memories’ was supposed to be ‘Lose Yourself to Dance’. ‘Get Lucky’ was intended in a way as the ‘opening act’ for ‘Lose Yourself to Dance’, hence the latter’s higher production values.

this is hilarious

sorry, nile rodgers' meddling with time has caused my posts to loop.

that is crazy

Lose Yourself to Dance is the better song, makes sense to me

it's a better song to play with Stevie Wonder at the Grammys

that makes sense. LYTD is clearly richer in structure, sound, production. It's heavier and sounds more "important".
but then "Get lucky" is more simple, lighter and more fun. perfect for the spring/summer vibe.

I like the idea of Get Lucky as an intro to LYTD though !

Actually when I think about it though, LYTD just doesn't seem like a good tempo to be the big single

well, not so much the tempo but the gravitas, almost darkness, of the track make it less mainstream, I guess.

Yeah, if anything, LYTD seems like a perfectly designed third single.

Is there an unstoppable ubiquitous summer jam on the rise for this year, by the way ?

the "robots" parts in LYTD might be the best of the whole album... or even their best ever !

Is there an unstoppable ubiquitous summer jam on the rise for this year, by the way ?

I Really Really Like You?
Bills?

song is out; video drops in 2 hours

i love "back in the old school"

http://www.okayplayer.com/news/nile-rodgers-chic-ill-be-there-video.html

nice tune. video is uuuuuuh

CHIC retweeted
BANG Showbiz ‏@BANGShowbiz 8m8 minutes ago

Chic + @nilerodgers are putting on an incredible show at @RoundhouseLDN! #IllBeThere #EverybodyDance

4:26 PM - 20 Mar 2015 · Details
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAkhJPSWsAAx7C2.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbt-kw2EkfU

i really wish that whole documentary were available with english subtitles

― example (crüt), mercredi 29 avril 2015 16:52 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the documentary is pretty cool, yeah.
from a french perspective, it was quite fun (and wtf) to have all these interviews and comments from big stars and then... sheila !
I didn't even know he had made an album for her...
I also didn't know he was behind inxs' "original sin".

― AlXTC from Paris, mercredi 29 avril 2015 17:32 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I should have put this on the Nile thread instead of the Daft thread, I guess..

― AlXTC from Paris, mercredi 29 avril 2015 17:33 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Am I missing something? All I saw was a sub 1-min video of a Daft Punk robot typing at a console while "Why?" played in the background.

― The Reverend, mercredi 29 avril 2015 18:03 (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah the "video" is nothing. it's part of a French Nile Rodgers documentary.

― example (crüt), mercredi 29 avril 2015 18:14 (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Surely an equivalent of this documentary has been made in english at some point ? Especially since all the interviews are in english !
I mean it's cool and all but there must be many other interviews of Nile and all the other people involved on the subject.

Among the best stuff are his comments about all the things he's done until now.
With such an incredible history of hits he could sound like an asshole (or an hypocrite) but he manages to appear both proud and likeable.
A bit like a kid bragging.
Another nice thing is that throughout the documentary he almost always plays his (unplugged) guitar during the interviews.

(OK this definitely belongs to the NL thread !)

― AlXTC from Paris, mercredi 29 avril 2015 18:40 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the interviews are in english but they're inaudible because of the dubbing!

"I'll Be There" is at the top of the Billboard dance charts.

Duets added, also re Freak Out Festival:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6612809/nile-rodgers-chic-album-interview?utm_source=twitter

Lots of younger/other artists I'd like as guests, but these are mostly people he's known and performed with live and/or on their own records, ones he's comfortable with, so (maybe occasional stage colleague Prince will get in there too? NR's still working on tracks!)

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jun/22/nile-rodgers-goes-busking-london-south-bank

Chic’s Nile Rodgers treated passersby to some of his classics beside the Thames – and kept his guitar case open for donations.

Initially unrecognisable in a wooly red hat, multicoloured scarf and camel jacket, he drew a modest crowd when he started singing Le Freak.

So no Londoners here saw him busking, I guess...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/06/fashion/mens-style/nile-rodgers-still-chic-after-all-these-years.html

He is helping to score Hugh Jackman’s new one-man show, and it’s going to be “insane.” Coachella called him and booked Chic to perform at the festival for the first time next spring, right around the time he is due to hit 64

...
Last month, Mr. Rodgers was on deadline to deliver tracks to Mr. Jackman, to Mr. Urban and to Stargate, the Norwegian producers behind many of Rihanna’s and Katy Perry’s hits.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/may/18/nile-rodgers-my-greatest-mistake

The single biggest mistake of my entire life was not taking Miles Davis seriously when he said: "Write me a motherfucking 'Good Times'". We had done an Issy Miyake photoshoot together and become friends, but I still couldn't believe that he would ask me to help him make a hit record. This is a great man who changed my life – and he wanted me to help change his. The same thing happened when I first met David Bowie and he wanted a hit record: I thought he was joking.

oh my god

o_O

CHIC
@CHICorg

RT nilerodgers "Thrilled to announce that as part of the BBC’s Glastonbury Experience weekend (June 25th-29th), you’ll be able to watch the nilerodgers & CHICorg 2017 set on the Pyramid stage on BBCFOUR and BBCiPlayer. More details about the weekend … " To follow, I hope.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eat0pe0XsAAewNw?format=jpg&name=medium

We Are Family played on a wah pedal. I played it this way so folks can hear the voice leading and substitutions. The G11 I play as a D-9 at times pic.twitter.com/RA67DduGP5

— Nile Rodgers (@nilerodgers) June 20, 2020

This was a surprise to me!

Attending the #funeral of a Panther’s baby. I’m the skinny 16 year-old brother on the right. Sub-section leader of Lower Manhattan Section, Harlem Branch. We were so filled with love. pic.twitter.com/qyewOg59PI

— Nile Rodgers (@nilerodgers) June 4, 2021

love him even more now

So great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRERgcQe-fQ

I had so much joy in the past 15m and that’s only halfway TY

I kind of remember reading that he never used an amp on records- just DI. Sounds like a lot of compression going in. I've gotten similar sounds with my strat and DI to an actual mic pre/ comp channel strip (as opposed to a pedal).

Delays such as the rhythm guitar on Let's Dance were a Bob Clearmountain thing, more than a Nile thing, if I had to guess.

About 4:00 in this fascinating video, Niles explains the reason for using the delay like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlDCPCwVNUw

In college, I sang with the keyboard player who busts out the impromptu Soul Glo solo

lmao that guy was so good!!!

Dang that Tiny Desk concert is ridiculous - thanks for posting

Haha yes, that guy was totally the highlight