When was the last time you didn't feel embarrassed for a musician making a public political statement?

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I don't know about you, but I cringe every time I see a musician say something political on stage or in an interview. Doesn't matter if I agree with them or not, because they always come off sounding like total knobs. But maybe that's just me being cynical and crusty. Has anyone here ever been positively affected by the political pronouncements of a favorite musician? Have you ever gained respect/appreciation for a musician's art because of their articulateness on a non-musical subject?

Nick Mirov (nick), Friday, 4 April 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Better a musician than an actor, I guess.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I grew up in a small town in Oregon and learned much politically from the Clash. Didn't/don't always agree, but learned to look stuff up, which is always a positive thing.

And all of political reggae to thread, esp. Peter Tosh.

Neudonym, Friday, 4 April 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree completely with the knob remark. Just think of every remark about PETA by any musician and cringe away

SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't say I've changed my mind about anyone's music (or movies) based on their public pronouncements (though sometimes it can be a struggle to separate them, sure), but I'm interested in hearing anyone's public pronouncements if what they have to say is interesting. I also think most musicians talking about their music is, with few exceptions, a lot worse (or anyway, a lot more boring). What do you propose instead: that everyone just stick to talking about the things they know about? (He asks as he disappears from this thread forever...)

s woods, Friday, 4 April 2003 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

When was the last time you didn't feel embarrassed for a musician making a public political statement?

The last time I heard/saw a musician making a public political statement.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I just wish Bono would take off those ridiculous sunglasses before talking to the UN.

Brandon Gentry (Brandon Gentry), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

When Jennifer Finch of L7 started Rock for Choice, it made me love that band even more.

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

When was the last time you didn't feel embarassed for a politician making a public musical statement?

coulda started another thread, but didn't.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"It glorifies killing police officers and that is wrong."

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

not to endorse self-righteous star posturing, but isn't it well within someone’s rights to make public their beliefs?

when i hear people say that m. moore, the d. chicks, or e. vedder need to shut up -- and attack the fact that they are even speaking out (and not what they are speaking out against) -- it makes me very ill.

when i was a kid -- and blindly idolized people -- i took a lot of my politics from stuff that i heard in music or read in music bios. i supplemented that information with outside sources -- some of which contradicted what i heard from musicians -- but music was a nice point of departure.

s>c>, Friday, 4 April 2003 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Although SplendidMullet is entitled to not only his opinion, but his hairstyle, I would amend his statement to say: "Just think of every remark about PETA by any musician and cheer wildly."

Neudonym, Friday, 4 April 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I will say though I'd prefer to hear the opinions of musicians who are obviously somewhat educated about the issues which they speak out on rather than someone just sorta venting and ranting.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't have any problems with musicians speaking about political issues. People can say whatever the fuck they want, no matter who they are, as far as I'm concerned (stopping short of the immediate incitement to riot/murder, "fire in a crowded theater", etc.) Anytime anyone raises issues to the effect of "this public figure should shut their mouth", I can't help but think that that person has much larger issues about their own politics and about the role of open debate in society.

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 April 2003 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

to clarify - anyone who says "musicians shouldn't talk about ____" is really saying "I don't want to think about ____ right now".

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 April 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

.. Well, it's like saying only educated people should vote. Of course we wouldn't want to exclude anyone from voting or make them take a test first .. but you still kinda wish people would know about the issues before they vote/talk. Doesn't matter if they're a musician or some annoying guy at the bus stop.

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd also say that, compared to the usual stream of crap coming out of many musos' mouths, the occasional politically-charged moment can be quite refreshing (such as Fred Durst's first-ever-sentence-without-any-cuss-words-or-references-as-to-why-people-should-"step off" little outburst of near-intelligence at the Grammy's).

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I would more likely read an article bout Vedder if it was about Amps and effects than his opinion about the world. Is what I'm saying

SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

there is something i still like about the youthful idealism of hardcore - all those 7"s with xeroxed manifestos tucked inside. But I guess that doesn't count.

But yes, overall, entertainers / artists should keep it to themselves. Though I will say that I'll take Ted Nugent over a limousine liberal any day.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Shoot it kill it grill it...an honest man ted

SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Friday, 4 April 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

If there is one term that actually bothers me, it's "limousine liberal". WTF is that supposed to imply?

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

out of touch. as in Tom Hanks is out of touch with yer average Joe

SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

If there is one term that bothers me, it's "Ted Nugent". A boring rocker who thinks he's being brave by being the Rush Limbaugh of dirtbag rock. Nothing "honest" there at all, and only in touch with average Joe if by "average Joe" you mean "middle-class white guy who loves nothing better than to complain about how women and the coloreds and the left-wing media have ruined his droit de signeur. < / exercise of free speech >

Neudonym, Friday, 4 April 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

For example: Private jet for personal safety(not green) and arriving at the oscars in a hybrid honda (because its green)

SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Nugent hayta

SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess it's not the term "limousine liberal" that bothers me so much as how freely and much-of-the-time completely inaccurately it's dealt out.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate when the liberalism is schtick. like I know Vedders/Teds opinion before they give it. I'd like a surprise once in awhile from either side that wasn't predictable

SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

richard thompson makes good points re politics, from the stage as well as in interviews, that aren't cringeworthy.

dan (dan), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

limousine liberals? How about Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins, who live in the next best thing to a gated fucking community? I respect the Nuge (and I love animals and drugs more than anyone here, I'm certain of that) because he has the balls to voice opinions that don't necessarily go along with the acceptable dogma that rock stars and celebrities are supposed to propogate. It takes no guts fro Vedder to write Pro Choice on his arm during MTV UNplugged to a roomful of genuflecting disciples. Don't even get me started on Michael Moore.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Julian Cope manages to do it while being very funny at the same time, although he's been off his game lately. I'll still choose him.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

but Roger, the Nuge is *so* public about his stances that he's preaching to the converted as much as Vedder is, if not moreso! Witness that Vedder actually offended his fans. When was the last time anyone walked out of a Nugent show because he got on his high horse? Answer = NEVER. Nugent's stance isn't "brave" or even against character/type/profession, he's telling his redneck rocker audience what they want to hear (eg, that they're persecuted by liberal animal-loving drug addicts).

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 April 2003 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, roger, but what do you think about Michael Moore?

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

To Shakey Mo: Wouldn't it be interesting if maybe Tuge and Vedder switched fanbases. At least somebody would be hearing something different.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

...the acceptable dogma that rock stars and celebrities are supposed to propogate...

But does this supposed "dogma" actually exist? I. Don't. See. It.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

it's just an extension of the "liberal media" myth, nick...

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 April 2003 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Fair enough, but he's derided by Hollywood types (witness the vicious SNL satire) not because he hunts and hangs out with republicans. They condemn him for the same thing they applaud the Go Gos for when they talk their PETA bullshit. It's bias, plainly. Like I said on another thread, the Beastie Boys write the worst song of the year criticizing the war, and everyone is all "right on" - what if Zwan wrote a song criticizing Jesse Jackson? Then what?

I'm as far from conservative as you can feasibly get (though probably just as far from liberal, too) but you have to admit there are biases. Look how the Dismemberment Plan guy was treated on this very board! Of course I disagree with him, but he was given this "oh, look at the dummy" treatment.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 4 April 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

what if Zwan wrote a song criticizing Jesse Jackson? Then what?
People would go "Jesse Who? Is he the one between Tito and Marlon?"; Jesse Jackson is utterly irrelevant these days.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Fair enough, but he's derided by Hollywood types (witness the vicious SNL satire) not because he hunts and hangs out with republicans."

Huh? I never hear anyone talk about Ted Nugent. Unless he's on a talk show shooting his bow-and-arrow at Sadaam Hussein (that was back in GWI tho). As for SNL - gimme a break, they make fun of everyone. That show has no politics.

"Like I said on another thread, the Beastie Boys write the worst song of the year criticizing the war, and everyone is all "right on""

Uh - this did not happen. That song was roundly panned. Check the thread.

"what if Zwan wrote a song criticizing Jesse Jackson? Then what?"

You mean like, uhm, Lou Reed did?

"I'm as far from conservative as you can feasibly get (though probably just as far from liberal, too) but you have to admit there are biases."

Sure, everybody's got biases, I just don't see any evidence of the particular ones your claiming.

"Look how the Dismemberment Plan guy was treated on this very board! Of course I disagree with him, but he was given this "oh, look at the dummy" treatment. "

I seem to remember a lot of people applauding him for taking an "unconventional" stand, actually, but I'd have to go back and read it.

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 April 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Come on, what do you mean you don't see it?? As long as there is a Fox News Network monopoly you'll never hear me hollering about "liberal media bias" but are you really going to tell me that if Malkmus wrote a pro-Bush song there wouldn't be boycotts? People like Vedder, Moore, etc preach to the converted, so their wide-eyed followers have new statistics to go home and argue with their dads about. It's nauseating.

"Trash a bank if you got real balls"
- Jello Biafra (hardly an innocent himself, but the reference applies)

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm confused - what is your argument, that indie rockers are traditionally liberal? That documentary filmmakers are liberal...? I mean, what massive generalization are you trying to convey here that the rest of us are supposed to accept as obvious?

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 April 2003 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't care what indie rockers and filmmakers are liberal, the same way i don't care what kind of fucked up shit Boyd Rice is into. What I'm saying relates to how opinions go through this Brita filter of acceptable or not acceptable and are then treated as the law of the land. It's not about the politics, it's about how some things are forgivable (Le Tigre's sexism) and some things not (Earth Crisis and their pro-life stance).

That said, it has no bearing on me whatesoever, because, like I said before, the biggest mouths are usually bands I don't listen to anyway (Sonic Youth excluded) - But I like Burzum and Ultra Red about the same, you know?

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

*rolls eyes at "Fox News monopoly" mention -- do you even know what the word "monopoly" means?*

Anyway, I like how certain musicians take a stand in crusading for gay & lesbian rights. I applauded k.d. lang for not giving a crap about people's opinions because she outed herself as a lesbian, and I thought it was very cool that Bronski Beat did that video for the song "Smalltown Boy", among others. I am very much waiting for the day when gays & lesbians can legally marry, and anyone who will be open about wanting equal rights for gays & lesbians gets a gold star in my book.

I am also one of those people who highly adore L7 for standing up for reproductive choice. "Rock for Choice" is one of the few political organizations I wholly support. God bless those girls, esp. Jennifer Finch (and didn't Donita Sparks have something to do with the formation as well?).

I would mention AIDS, but it shouldn't be a political statement to say that you wish there was a cure for AIDS, just as it isn't a political statement to say that you wish there was a cure for cancer or any other terminal disease.

p.s.: Yes, I'm still a Republican. Heh.

Dee the Lurker (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

OK monopoly was the wrong choice of words, but with O'Reilly's audience about 30x what Donahue's is, it certainly feels that way, no?

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

No spin zone...my ass! They're may not be any "lefty" spin, but theres nothing on Fox but "righty" spin. Don't they know that that much spin will make you dizzy?

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

eek. yes I agree - but charismatic as all get-out, Billy boy is!

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

It really isn't a monopoly, or even close to one, if someone's ratings eclipse someone else's. It's just that more people out there agree with Bill O'Reilly. And if you listen closely to O'Reilly, you would realize that he's neither liberal nor conservative. He's even been interviewed by The Advocate and revealed himself to (a.) be a friend of homosexuals and (b.) be anti-death penalty.

Trust me, true blue conservatives HATE Bill O'Reilly because they think he's a loony lefty. *grin*

Dee the Lurker (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

O'Reilly is anti-death penalty? Really? Is that true? Wow, i like him even more now.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Mike Taylor's always funny when he's being political and philosophical, and insightful.

Ian Johnson (orion), Friday, 4 April 2003 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"What I'm saying relates to how opinions go through this Brita filter of acceptable or not acceptable and are then treated as the law of the land."

Whose opinions pass through this filter and become "law of the land?" Where is this "law of the land" you speak of? I'm curious to read it.

"It's not about the politics, it's about how some things are forgivable (Le Tigre's sexism) and some things not (Earth Crisis and their pro-life stance)."

Now see, that specific example suggests some kind of archetypal PC-punk listener. Is that who you're angry at?

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 April 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked Natalie Maines' comments because a) it obviously took some balls to run the risk of alienating a large percentage of your fans, and b) because maybe, just maybe, some of her fans took notice and questioned their pro-war stance ("If one of my heroes is against the war...").

I was embarrassed by Eddie Vedder because it seemed like such a moronic gesture with a facile message ("Yeah, Bush is evil and fascist!"), which I doubt would've really persuaded anybody but the Hippie Left, anyway. ("You know, I was all for the war, but then Eddie Vedder smashed a photo of President Bush, and that's really got me thinking...")

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 4 April 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Personally, I'd still see just about any actor or artist replacing George W. Bush as the president of the USA and I am pretty certain that it will be a step in the right direction.

Unless said musician is named Ted Nugent, Alan Jackson, Garth Brooks or Jeff "Skunk" Baxter, but that goes without saying anyway.. :-)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 4 April 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir and Shakey in Fred-Durst-style "agreeance" SHOCKAH!

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 4 April 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't exactly get why people with limousines shouldn't be allowed to speak out on political issues. What, being wealthy automatically means you have no right to talk about Iraq/abortion/PETA/whatever? I think that's counter-productive.

Agreed on the predictability complaints- seems to be changing these days, tho, what with the Dixie Chicks and Dismemberment Plans an' all.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 4 April 2003 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I love animals...more than anyone here, I'm certain of that
versus
the Go Gos...talk their PETA bullshit

Roger Adultery, I'm a-callin' you out! You're in Ted Nugent's hip pocket and you know it!

(Actually, you admitted it, because you say you respected his balls. Me, I don't even wanna think about them nasty things.)

I don't know what your politics are at all, but for those of us who really love animals PETA is not bullshit, and Jane Wiedlin roxx for speaking her mind just the same as your hairy hero.

Neudonym, Saturday, 5 April 2003 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"Conflict on earth will end when the threat comes from somewhere other than the earth itself" - Neil Young

dave q, Saturday, 5 April 2003 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

good ol' Neil

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 5 April 2003 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Good ol' Reagan-backing making-millions-of-dollars-by-singing-about-his-dead-junkie-friends-while-somehow-remaining-above-it-all Neil.

Neudonym, Saturday, 5 April 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

STO, Neudonym :)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 5 April 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Nugent is a fuckwitt and an arsehole and makes you ashamed to be a human being. An utter dickhead that needs his balls cut off.

I can't stand Pearl Jam but good on Vedder. And who says he's preaching to the converted? Half of the people at his Denver concert walked out after he destroyed the Bush mask on stage. I might not like the guy's music but I apoprove of his 'in your face' politics and wish more bands were doing this.

As for PETA - they have some really good ideas, but some of their agenda is a bit heavy handed and silly. Like asking Suede to change their name, which simply beggars belief. I kinda wish more bands would take on the anti-vivisection movement though - someone should hold a free concert outside Huntingdon Life Sciences to draw attention to what the fuck goes on in that hell hole. Alas, but why bother when an industry that is funded by the investment of multinational companies looking to seal of approval on their new bleach or toothpaste has the support of these lovely little humane socialists The Manic Street Preachers. Nice one.

Whilst I was baffled by Jarvis Cocker's appearance in the BT advert, I always thought that he was a truthful and intelligent rock star. I rarely found myself disagreeing with him.

Calum, Sunday, 6 April 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought it was funny when Nugent said "if you can't speak English get out of the country", like how were the intended targets supposed to understand that

dave q, Sunday, 6 April 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Funny, however, how liberals have never started burning Amboy Dukes albums and boycotted radio stations playing Amboy Dukes. Give an impression as to which side is actually more tolerant towards different opinions.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 6 April 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir you dopey Chris Martin fellatng tit witch, that's because people like Nugent go out and teach kids to hunt and KILL wolves and deers with fire arms for fuckssake! He even had an auction on ebay where a family of wolves were being put up to the highest bidder and the winner gets the grand chance of laying an arrow in them. Sick bastard.

I'd like to lay an arrow in his ass.

Likewise, you don't tolerant asshole Presidents who haven't even been democratically elected and who are causing serious death, destruction and environmental damage.

You cock.

Calum, Sunday, 6 April 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Read my post once more will you?

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 6 April 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha, mea culpa...

Duh! (Aimed at self)

Calum, Sunday, 6 April 2003 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)


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