SCOTLAND, 86--01: Search and Destroy

Imho scotland has produced way too much music in that time period for one thread: you've got everything from Texas to Teenage Fanclub.

Yeah, but NIcole, you only have to pick one 'search' and one 'destroy' record (according to the original rules, anyway)

Search: Deacon Blue, the Care Bears.

Destroy: Let's see. Stevie T recently told me that Boards of Canada were from Scotland, not Canada. Destroy them. Mogwai, are they Scottish? They can go. Ker-chink.

There's a much bigger question here, I think - which I think Nitsuh may have been getting at, really. Not 'what do you like and dislike in recent Scots music? - make a list', but "what is the meaning of Scottish indie music - is there a tradition there - is there anything distinctive - why Scotland rather than elsewhere - what kind of aesthetic / intellectual interaction has gone on with other traditions [eg California, Manchester, whatever], and why?"

Stray fact: last month, went to Glasgow for the first time to see B&S, and all the place names (Kelvingrove, Morningside, Hillhead and what have ye) felt, for want of a better word, Twee. As though B&S - but not just B&S, but whole surrounding long-term culture - had (seen from my limited POV) colonized the previously Kelmanesque words and given 'Scotland' new connotations, at least when approached from the direction of Pop.

Well, that's where I get whiny because there's been a lot of grate music to come out of Scotland in that time period and it's just too unfair to pick one. I will go off in the corner and pout.

Destroy: Bobby Gillespie. Duh.

Now, Nicole, I've warned you...

If you destroy Bobby G, who am I going to lust after?

Search: Mogwai, since everyone else is pissing on them. They did one crap album, with CODY, but have since redeemed themselves mightily with Rock Action.

Destroy: all miserable, fey, twee, jangling Glaswegians who get them and seven thousand of their mates to start whinging in unison.

I like the Scots when they're noisy. I don't like them when they're being all sensitive.

So why do you like Travis, then? ;-)

If you destroy Bobby G, who am I going to lust after?

That's an easy one. Transfer bbby's lust-quotient to thom yorke.

xoxo

Pinefox: Thanks for the spot-on clarification. I was thinking in terms of the fact that while Scotland has produced a relatively wide variety of material during the past decade-and-a-half, there does seem to be a particularly "Scottish" quality to a lot of it---not to mention that a lot of it seems to fit into clearly-discernable genres or sub-genres or what-have-you. I meant to limit the discussion mainly to that, meaning that Texas or Sheena Easton would be sort of non-sequitur, for our purposes. And make it 91-01, if you want to slim things down a bit.

Thus "I like the Scots when they're noisy" functions as a "search" to Mogwai, Yatsura, or early Delgados . . . whereas "I don't like it when they're sensitive" impugns the whole Drake / Donovan lineage up there---both of which are pretty wide swaths.

Search: Trash Can Sinatras' Cake and I've Seen Everything, Richard Youngs's Sapphie, Pastels' Illumination. Destroy: Jesus and Mary Chain's Automatic (which ceased to stand the test of time after about five minutes), Urusei "We Seemed Like We'd Be So Great, Didn't We" Yatsura, AC Acoustics, and get back to me on Appendix Out.

I like Travis coz they like MEEEEEE!!!

They're not really that miserable anyway. They're like Pot Noodle. They sort you out when *you're* miserable.

Kudos to Nitsuh for mentioning Richard Youngs! :-) I've been firing off e-mails with his musical partner crime Simon Wickham-Smith over the last few days, actually. Their newest album, _Lammergieir_ or something like that, is a winner.

search: psychocandy

destroy: come on die young

i'm sure i've said enough about both of these.

Search: 'Rip it Up' - Orange Juice, 'Voices From The New Music' - Telstar Ponies, 'The Week Never Starts Round Here' - Arab Strap, 'Happy Birthday'/'Pinky Blue' - Altered Images, 'Obscurity Knocks' ep - Trash Can Sinatras, 'Rock Action' - Mogwai, 'Sunshine On Leith' - The Proclaimers, 'Pelaton' - Delagados, JAMC, B&S...

Destroy: Texas, 'Shout' - Lulu, 'Raintown' - Deacon Blue, Runrig and, yes, all those Brydsy, janglesome wankers that Alan McGee likes so much. Except the Teenage Fannies.

Scotland is something like the homeland of good independent music. Especially the singing is great. What always surprises me that these Scots can sing English without any accent but as soon as they are interviewed their accent is bigger than themselves.

SEARCH: Arab Strap - Philophobia, Belle and Sebastian - If You're Feeling Sinister, Beta Band - 3 EPs, BMW Bandits - Gettin' Dirty, Cocteau Twins - Heaven or Las Vegas and most other albums, Jesus & Mary Chain - Stoned and Dethroned and most other albums, Mogwai - Come on Die Young, Primal Scream - Screamadelica, Trash Can Sinatras - I've Seen Everything. DESTROY: Blue Nile - Hats (worst cocktail music imaginable), Incredible String Band - everything (what a bunch of wankers, belongs into the category/thread huge disappointment by critics).

Nice misspelling: The group is of course called BMX Bandits. Must be a Freudian slip. I'd love to steal a BMW. But only for a fun ride!

Lowflife - Diminuendo (1987) is the best album to be produced by a Scots band from 1986 onwards.

Lowlife included Will Heggie of The Cocteau Twins. Lowlife combined the influences of Joy Division, The Chameleons, The Sisters of Mercy, The Cocteau Twins and Dif Juz to create music thats was dense, dark, and lush; a rich ethereal blend of intoxicating melodic music.

Lowlife

Who remembers them? Who else has experienced the atmospheric brilliance of Diminuendo?

Search: The Vaselines, assorted singles. Destroy: The Vaselines, assorted singles.

Another lapsus. Sorry the Incredible String Band was maybe the most embarassing Scottish band of all times but not between 1986 and 2001. They peaked in 1968 I think. The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter, the title is the best of that album.

Search ; COcteau Twins, Momus, Trash Can Sinatras, travis, Destroy : Primal scream, eurythmics, prefab sprout

This website is worth a mention if you are unaware of it:

Jock Rock - the home of Scottish Indie Music

Search: I Hate Scotland by Ballboy, Blue Nile, Arab Strap, early Mogwai. One Pastels single.

Destroy: Every last one of the no-mark jangly bands who were signed to Creation post-92. BMX Bandits. The deadly dull Delgados.

I forgot Bis. Bis are too bad to be merely destroyed. Every last one of their atoms must be annihilated.

Search: Bis "Power Puff Girl theme tune"
Destroy: PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE PAT KANE

Search: First Albums by Mogwai, Magoo, Arab Srap, Belle and Sebastian, Prolapse

Destroy: all later albums by the above

In more detail though Young Team for RAWK wall of sound sounscaping, The week never starts round here by Arab strap is one of my favorite albums, such gentle snesitivity and one of the most erotic songs ever written

Search: First Albums by Mogwai, Magoo, Arab Srap, Belle and Sebastian, Prolapse.

I'd quite forgotten Magoo. Well done, then.

As for Prolapse: do they count? I'd always thought of them as Scottish, but certain sources are telling me they're technically English (with the obvious exception of "Scottish Mick").

Your low-fi stuck-in-'96 pesky indie kid correspondent writes...

Search: Mogwai (preferably Young Team), Urusei Yatsura (avoid the last single, but seek out pretty much all of We Are - Plastic Ashtray! Kewpies Like Watermelon! Siameeeese! *falls down flight of stairs in excitement* - and bits of Death To and Slain By), early Delgados (yes, I know, people who say "I prefer their earlier stuff" are wankers, but they're USUALLY RIGHT as well, eh?), and, mmm, ESKA. Eska Eska Eska. "Running On Sum Six Dew" = pure warm fuzzy lo-fi genius with lyrics about being lost and confused, which I always like in a band. Invent The Fortune isn't quite as warm and fuzzy but still has some great stuff on. Prolapse. Bis - Eurodisco (hey, I'm sorry, but... no! sod that, I'm too drunk to be sorry. I will probably apologise lots tomorrow instead...). What I've heard so far from Cathode and Spare Snare seems pretty cool, too.

Beta Band - "Three EPs" / "Sequinsizer / To You Alone". Actually, I haven't listened to the 3 EPs for ages, but it sounded good at the time. El Hombre Trajeado, not least because they sang, "She likes the music that goes thump thump thump", which made a nice sig quote for a while. Er. Hello, I am queen geek, except without any of the usual benefits of geekdom such as being clever and good with computers.

AC Acoustics - "Stunt Girl", "I Messiah Am Jailer". Not very cool, perhaps, but those breathily apathetic vocals, those swooning, giddy trebly guitar riffs... for some reason these seem like the soundtrack to happyish nights of drunkenness when I was 16. Of course the actual soundtrack was probably Born Slippy, happy hardcore and Love Shack, but never mind.

Boards of Canada. Like, duh. Would offer s&d recommendations but I think they have their own thread and I am lazy. Oh, search for roygbiv and the last single and loads of other stuff I can't remember the names of.

Destroy: Arab Strap. Sorry, I just don't get it. Dreary post- Domestiques Delgados, although now I come to think of it I only really like "Under Canvas Under Wraps". Nectarine #9 (am I allowed to diss Davey Henderson after he gave FT its name?). Mercury Tilt Switch, for not being called Mercury Tit Switch like I thought they were when I first read their name. Everything else by AC Acoustics. Annie Christian, Astrid, and other generic schmindie bands that I can't tell apart. Ganger, for having one great song (Blau) but being a big mess of flutey ooh-look-a-weird-time-signature-aren't-we-clever nonsense elsewhere. And the High Fidelity, for existing.

I will stop talking about lots of bands you hate now and just tell everyone that Eska are lovely and criminally underrated again instead. Thus if I'm only allowed one "search" band I guess they'd be it, and, ooh, I'll definitely destroy Texas, I've always wanted to do that. Sorry for inflicting posts upon you when I am drunk and hypercaffeinated and therefore even ramblier and less coherent than usual.

Search: Since we're only allowed one, it has to be B&S. Destroy: Aereogramme. Why must they always support bands I like?

Pinefox: it could be true to say that B&S et al have rewritten (or perhaps at least made people rethink) perceptions of Scotland (especially Glasgow, in this case), but for who exactly? The majority of the populace have little knowledge of this music or the associations it brings with it. For all I know, Glasgow might still be thought of in terms of Kelman, Taggart etc, I dunno. Most places I go are influenced by the people I'm with.

pinefox: You're saying search Deacon Blue, destroy Mogwai and Boards of Canada? Sheesh, did I go back to being six years old and did it start being Opposites Day in the playground without anyone telling me again?! ;)

Nitsuh: I think you're right that Mick is the only Scot in Prolapse, but since his accent is such a key part of their sound I'm fairly happy to count that. But were Magoo Scottish? I thought that I used to assume they were since they were on Chemikal Underground but that they were actually from Norwich. Why am I asking this when Chris could explain, anyway? Erm. But anyway, if they count then stick Soateramic Sounds on my search list. (Not just being sycophantic, is top album, spent a while of my life listening to nothing but that and Pure Morning's "Two Inch Helium Buddha" and feeling sorry for myself, and astoundingly can still listen to and enjoy both albums, sometimes even without feeling sorry for myself...)

Search: Life Without Buildings Destroy: As an antipodean from a country that launched savage gaarden on an unsuspecting world, i can hardly comment can i?

search: cocteaus, boc, mogwai's young team, arab strap's philaphobia, b&s if yr feeling sinister, momus's ping pong.

destroy: the beta band.

Search : Josef K (everything), The Scars ("Author, Author"), Orange Juice (the Postcard singles).

DJ Martian - I remember Lowlife well (If the Cocteaus had a male singer and had been on Factory...), but unfortunately I didn't like them much.

Pinefox - Deacon Blue! This is a joke, right?

Hard one since I'm going to stick to the one band rule.

Search: Primal Scream. Yep me and Masonic Boom are the lone crusaders for Bobster & co. Can't help myself, but I buy into their silly game.

Destroy: aren't Delamitri from Scotland...otherwise Deacon Blue, jeezzz.

PAT KANE! I could I forget?

i think 'Give Out But Don't Give Up' is classic! But then, I like "I Don't Want a Lover" and "Don't Come Home Too Soon" as well!

I was once told that a game called kolf was popular across a good deal of Northern Europe in the middle centuries of the last millenium. It was played with a club and a ball and - frankly - sounds a bit dull to me. The game fell from popularity, except in Scotland, where it lived on, as golf (or 'gowf', apparently). From a Scottish base, the game slowly grew to worldwide popularity again and Scotland claims to be the home of the game.

It's surely through a similar process that Scotland's getting credited with being some kind of 'homeland of good independent music'?

Much sympathy with Dr. C's choices, except for the facts that (a) he's flagrantly ignored the 86-91 stipulation and (b) the Scars' Adult/Ery single is vastly superior to their LP. Therefore... Search: Jasmine Minks or (for a classic pop one-shot 45 appearance and disappearance) The Honeymooners' "Another Fit Of Laughter". Destroy: the repulsively twee Cocteau Twins.

If we've gotta stick to just one each then I'd have to say:

Search: Close Lobsters. One of the most underrated bands of all time, but if you pick a daft name you're asking for it aren't you?

Destroy: Mogwai. Jumped up chancers with a tape of the Rodan album.

Hey Martian, I too remember Lowlife, very fine they were too. Does anyone remember a band called Fuel? They (or "he" since it was only one guy) only had one album but it was pretty good... Jesse Garon surely deserve an honourable mention as well...

destroy: life without buildings, for making us LOSE SO MUCH MONEY!!!

Just kidding. Really.

Search: Alex Harvey, Billy Mackenzie Destroy: The Proclaimers

Oops sorry '86 on... when did Alex Harvey die??

Why would you want to destroy the Proclaimers?

because they're 2 john majors in woolly jumpers?

And those bloody voices...my god talk about nails/on/blackboard.

Tim - didn't notice the 86-01 stipulation, but if I had I'd have ignored it anyway. The Scars single - yes it WAS miles better than the album. Wasn't that single also on the Fast Records compilation?

Jasmine Minks - good band. Which single do you have in mind? IMHO "Where the Traffic Goes" is classic, "Cold Heart" nearly classic, and most of their early-mid material worth having.

I wasn't really thinking of a particular Jasminks single: it's one of those occasions where my favourite changes every time I think about it. Possibly "What's Happening", but perhaps "Where the Traffic Goes" which, as you said, is classic. Or "Think!" Or...

The one-shot reference was to the Honeymooners, who were a kind of perfect jittery mid-point between Josef K and Altered Images with this burbling saxophone noise, great stuff.

Cocteau Twins are Twee? Have you ever heard Garlands?

Sadly yes, Mike. That's the pre-twee one where they still sounded like Siouxsie and the Banshees, yes?

"Treasure" is possibly the most twee record I've ever heard.

victorialand is surely even more twee. it rocks.

Excuse me, Cocteau Twins, twee? On what freaking planet? Since I am the overlord EXPERT on defining what things are wibbling twee and what things are not, Cocteau Twins are NOT twee. I think the word you are looking for is "etherial". Etherial and twee are not synonyms.

kate is right, etherial is the right word, not twee. i was being a little facetious in my reply to tim.

Twee as in "affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint". I'm not saying they make the kind of guitar pop which you and others call Twee. I'm saying that I think they are twee, according to the dictionary definition of twee. Apologies if that wasn't clear.

I detest the word ethereal, if that's any help. But I will agree that the word wibbling applies rather nicely to the Cocteaux, thank you for bringing it up.

please explain life without buildings losing money remark...I am confused....

The last song on treasure is freakin nightmarish! What are you talking about! DO you own the record!?

OK, Tim, point taken. I don't agree with that point (I always thought that the early Cocteaus had far too much of an element of terror, and ecstacy offput by agony to be dainty or cute) but I do see the point that you are making.

Oh, Life Without Buildings. I do like them, they are very good, but they were booked to play a Strange Fruit- their bassist collapsed and was taken to hospital (he's OK now, thank god) but the resulting cancellation did cause us to lose over £400. Sorry, thought everyone in the world had heard me whinging about that. They have supposedly rescheduled.

No, Mike, I don't own the record (how many records do you own that you hate?). I can't remember the last track, but I can remember that the overall impression left by that LP, which I must have heard *at least* 50 times, was one of twee as defined above.

I'm sorry if this is offending you, the tone of these posts does seem rather aggressive. I'll stop talking about this if you would prefer?

Yeah, I must say: I thought the usual criticism of the Twins was that they were so deliberately un-twee. Affected, baroque, and melodramatic, maybe, but not so much twee. Even on their later, more cloying records---Heaven or Las Vegas onward---there were still palpable traces of the fullness and occasional coldness of sound that made it difficult to imagine anything "dainty" about the band. Unless you'd consider a Gothic cathedral "dainty."

Besides, just look at the two of them.

I'm not sure Tim is entirely on the money in this case, although I do applaud this latest push from L'Academie Anglaise in its steadfast campaign to rescue the word 'twee' from some kind of bizarre appropriation by the USA (where it seems to mean 'anglophile guitar band').

I'm not sure I'd criticise the Cocteau Twins' music for being twee as such, but they are definitely guilty on the titles front:

'Sugar Hiccup'
'Peppermint Pig'
'Pearly Dewdrops Drops'

I mean, they sound like My Little Pony characters for fuck's sake.

But then you have "The Spangle Maker," which may suggest one thing but which sounds like a dark landscape that suddenly explodes into kaleidoscopic exaltations. And *that* ain't twee. Can you tell I'm a fan? ;-)

The last track on Treasure is called Domino, and I don't really see your point when you say it's twee.... it's very, er, flighty, but still, how can someone singing in pseudo-latin be twee? Pretentious maybe..... It's nothing like Marine Research, anyway. Perhaps it's Liz Frazer's voice - though I can't understand this point of view myself (I think her voice is one of the most beautiful I've ever heard), I understand that it can grate on some people. A bit like how some people feel about Laura Nyro, whom I also love dearly (has anyone started a classic or dud thread on her yet? Not that I'm in any indecision over it , but still, I'd like to hear your points of view.)

I choose Gilded Lil and the Country Teasers for searching purposes. And me, when I get round to releasing my masterpieces! (haha) For destruction..... Marillion, Big Country, Texas, Prefab Sprout..... (I'm allowed to slag these people off, I'm Scottish)

Someone up there is 'stuck in 96'. Sounds pleasant. Does it? We'll find out.

Cookie: yes, OF COURSE I don't think that *everybody* sees Scotland in terms of B&S. I was trying to make an enecdotal point about very culturally specific perceptions (I tried to make that clear). By the way, I like Kelman, so I don't think it's bad to see Glasgow in terms of him.

Lo-Fi: don't know what you mean about 'opposites' day', but: yes, I am saying, Search: Deacon Blue / Care Bears, Destroy: Mogwai & Boards of Canada, just in case it was unclear.

ANECdotal. Jeez.

Tim- ha ha! NO I'm not offended or anything! Sorry if I seemed aggressive. I meant it smilingly , not angrily. Cocteaus can be twee at times but I dont think overall they are. Listen to Treasure again, its great. Parts of it are totally scary.

It's true, Nitsuh, they ming.

I've seen plenty of excessively quaint gothic churches, Nitsuh, and Les Twins feel to me like they have much more in common with those than with cathedrals (that whole 'sonic cathedrals' thing is a big Use-Other-Words-Please for me, though, like 'ethereal').

I think "Victorialand" was the last of their LPs I knowingly heard, and if, as you suggest, they became *more* cloying after that, that's probably a good thing.

I think my problem with them is that I've never felt any kind of emotional depth in their music (the terror / ecstasy thing Kate mentions) and so all the dramatics just seem excessive and affected. As a result, the little pretty-pretty curlicues (almost certianly the wrong word, but hopefully you know what I mean) L Frazer is prone to just leave me hearing tweeness. And no, the titles ("Fluffy Tufts" springs to mind) don't help. Can you tell I'm not a fan?

Jamie, I didn't say 'Domino' in particular is twee, I said the LP overall left me with that feeling. And as far as Marine Research go, I refer you to my answer to Kate above.

Also, by the way, when did Prefab Sprout become Scottish? I thought they were a Geordie band.

Prefab Sprout surely English (if definitely annoying). Lazy assumption that all people with Mac in their names are Scots?

Prefab Sprout aren't Scottish? Hooray, my national pride is rising by the second! Hm..... wonder why I thought that. It was probably someone's lazy assumption, Mark, but it wasn't mine - I'm probably just guilty of blind faith in whosever it was!

And Tim, which answer are you referring me to regarding Marine Research?

Optimo, the Sub Club, Mount Florida, Ege Bam Yasi, Soma Records, the Slam boys, Marcia Blaine School for Girls, Pure, Club 69 in Paisley, V-Twin (!!), the 13th Note, Adaptor.

Techno v. indie, and never the twain shall meet, even at Optimo?

The song's "Donimo." This used to be my email address, until I learned people were sending mail to "Domino" and getting it bounced back.

Tim: Maybe I can isolate the difference in the ways we're perceiving the Twins. You hear certain elements of their sound as "little pretty-pretty curlicues"---and while you say this might not be exactly the term you're looking for, I'm assuming you interpret those elements as being pretty in the sense that, say, a flower is pretty. (?) The difference for me---and perhaps for Cocteau fans in general-- -is that I interpret what I'm guessing are some of the same elements as a whole different sort of pretty, a sort of scary, old pretty, like a gargoyle on a Gothic cathedral. When I said "cathedral" before, I didn't mean it in the "sonic cathedral" sense---I honestly meant that as a direct aesthetic comparison. For fans, I think, a record like Treasure is something like walking into an very beautiful but disconcertingly creepy cathedral.

And let me note that I'm listening to the record right now, and anyone who tries to tell me "Persephone" is "twee" has obviously been listening to too much Norwegian metal.

Well, Nitsuh, you have the better of me because I wouldn't dream of having "Treasure" in the house, and I can't remember the titles, and I can't very well refer to 'the one which goes "wheep wheep wooo"' and so on. You hear gargoyles in a spooky cathedral, I hear a band about as scary as a sherry trifle but without the sherry. Which I'm sure is fine by both of us.

Jamie, I was referring to the post which begins 'Twee as in "affectedly...'.

well pref spr is from north england and recorded in scotland

The Rolling Stones are from south England and recorded in France. Are they French?

Nitsuh - I know Richard Youngs records in Scotland, but always thought he was English (certainly speaks with a posh English accent on some of his recs). Classic anyway, esp. for 'Advent' .

Sudden thought:

Search: Momus - 'Tender Pervert'

Unless he gets disqualified on the 'posh English voice' rule.

pinefox: I was being facetious, since your s&d picks seemed to be pretty much the opposite of mine. That is all. Apologies for any confusion caused (didn't foresee any; did foresee small possibility of offence, but absolutely none was intended, I was only kidding).

Tracer: Ooh, have Marcia Blaine School for Girls released anything? I have a very good mp3 of theirs from an internet remix competition, I wasn't aware that they'd released, like, proper records. I also didn't know they were Scottish; in fact, I know nothing about them at all. Sorry for being too lazy to websearch, but I'm trying not to go to too many different domains/blatantly non-work-related websearches from work, and I'm about to go to lunch - yay! - anyway.

England, Scotland..same thing anyways.

I'm fairly certain MBSG is Scottish. I know about them from my friend Stuart, whose club featured them on Sub-City radio in Edinburgh. They played several songs whose names I haven't the slightest. Great no-identifiable-genre techno, moving from glitch to bombastic ruffness, to cold noise, to warmth in the same song. Still supposed to be getting the minidisc one of these days...

Loads of interesting things have been said on this thread (not least by Tim H and friends re. Cocteaux), but I fear we have still not really answered Nitsuh's implicit question, which may have been something like: What is Scottish about Scottish pop? Or, Why has Scotland produced all these bands? Or whatever. This post is scant contribution to an answer to either.

From looking at the lists of acts above, I don't think it possible to identify a particular thing which makes Scottish music Scottish, aside from its country of origin.

I am not convinced that a disproportionate amount of interesting music has emerged from Scotland compared to, say, Manchester (which is only one town, rather than a whole country). I'm certainly not convinced that an especially wide range of music is being produced.

And I stand by my previous comments about Scotland as some kind of 'homeland' for 'good' indie music.

What is Scottish about Scottish pop, well apart from the fact that they're all born in Scotland not a lot. There are a few distinct threads that seem particularly prevalent though.

1. Soulboys (and girls). Going back to the 60's/70's, people like Frankie Miller, Average White Band, and Alex Harvey even. Carried through into the 80's with the Orange Juice, Jesse Rae, Hue & Cry, Wet Wet Wet and currently Texas.

2. Country/Folk music. Go into a bar in Glasgow on a Saturday night which has karaoke and you can't avoid hearing Hank Williams or Patsy Cline. Probably more important in the tradition of 'singalong' songwriting e.g Travis, Proclaimers, Gerry Rafferty, Waterboys, Runrig.

3. Indie aesthetic. Early Postcard/Fast through to Pastels (probably the most influential band in Scotland), JAMC , BMX Bandits, Soup Dragons through to Belle & Sebastian and the Chemikal Underground roster. This for some reason seems to tie in with a certain retro feel or rock classicism e.g Aztec Camera=Love, JAMC=Beach Boys/VU/Pistols etc, TFC=Big Star, Cosmic Rough Riders/=Eagles, Primal Scream=Anyone you can think of.

4. Fast dance music. Hi-NRG was particularly popular in the early 80's and the rave music was always more frenetic than it's southern counterpart. E.g. QFX, Happy hardcore and currently Public Domain.

No doubt plenty of people e.g. Cocteaus, early Simple Minds, Associates, ,Marillion, Arab Strap, Bathers, Win, Future pilot aka etc etc fall outside these categories, but ain't that the beauty of categories.

Haven't we been here before, and wasn't the argument something like Primal Scream, Orange Juice, Texas, Teenage Fanclub (and all their mishapen offspring) and Wet Wet Wet all share a Memphis fixation?

agreed re: the memphis thing mark. a convincing argument was used there, for definite

The Marcia Blaine School For Girls will be releasing their first e.p. in about a month on Rub-aDub/Club 69's new label Dalriada. It's got 4 songs on it and could best be described as "Steve Reich getting a mild bumming from Autechre, as Tortoise try not to look". Another e.p. will be followed by an album in due course (whenever that is). There will also be a track on Benbecula's "Music vol. 1", maybe an e.p. for them too, and an alleged track on a Law & Auder compilation.

Fey indie is still wank, though.

as a Marcia Blaine Girl like my friend #5 above, i can confirm yes we are scottish.

and a bunch of hackett scots too, going by #5's email address.

question: can americans buy the music??

Holy moly this thread is rich. Does anyone else have that "All That Ever Mattered" book? I have it somewhere in storage; it was a good read, lots of facts about Scottish rock. A lot on Postcard in particular. It was right to point out the pervasive influence of the TV Personalities on the Scottish bands of the early-mid 80s.

I can't decide which O,J. albums I rate. It's popular to rate the Postcard stuff above the Polydor things but frankly only three or four of the Postcard tracks do I enjoy as much as the first LP and parts of the second. "Rip It Up" is a great lost single; very dated but in just the right way.

Search Alasdair Robert's weekender's idea of Scotland, "The Crook of My Arm".

Hmmm.. 1986-2001, why?

After all, the best Scottish album of all time was released in 1983 and called "High Land Hard Rain". Travis are great though, obviously :-)

The Proclaimers were a great band live. Who cares if they looked strange?

Also search: JAMC, Primal Scream, Cocteaus, Beta Band, Blue Nile.

Delgados = only UK band from the last five years that doesn't induce the 'sickness unto death' within me. That I've seen live, I mean

I like richard youngs too and am surprised that dave enjoys the delgadoes.

He's English (boo, hiss)

i thouight scotland was all about the HARDCORE. none of this indie non.sense. I mean, like 2% of scotlands pop. are into that, right? (blatent made up fact). but happy hardcore is scotlands real own scene, and very few people outside want anything to do with it! i bought a really cool M8 magazine compilation for a £1 the other day btw. check: bass generator..also 'power of scotland'!?!?! me and ed have happy memories of this...

SEARCH: the stretchheads first album five finger four thingers a thumb a facelift and a new identity - if you know the locust the locust are kinda watered down stretchheads - the stretchheads did it back in 88.
dawson - some of their stuff was good.
badgewearer - started out like big flame with bigger balls (occasional awful sax playing) ended up the scots upsilon Acrux.
dog faced hermans had their moments most notably on the "humans fly" and whatever that album with "new shoots" and "live action" and "frock' was on. the ex meets the fall????