1978's Top 20 Albums Voted by Critics Vs. Now

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In 1978 Paul Gambaccini edited a slim volume -- which I still have even though it fell apart long ago -- entitled "Rock Critics' Choice: The Top 200 Albums." Critics including Robert Christgau, Greil Marcus, Dave Marsh, Lisa Robinson, Jonathan Cott, Cameron Crowe, Chet Flippo, Ben Fong-Torres, Smon Frith, Ellen Willis, Charlie Gillett and Mark P all submitted their "Top 10" lists, and Gambaccini compiled the results.
The Top 20:
1) Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, The Beatles
2) Blonde on Blonde, Bob Dylan
3) Highway 61 Revisted, Bob Dylan
4) Astral Weeks, Van Morrison
5) Rubber Soul, The Beatles
6) Revolver, The Beatles
7) Exile on Main Street, The Rolling Stones
8) Let it Bleed, The Rolling Stones
9) Abbey Road, The Beatles
10) Born to Run, Bruce Springsteen
11) The Sun Collection, Elvis Presley
12) Pet Sounds, The Beach Boys
13) The Band, The Band
14) The Velvet Underground and Nico, The Velvet Underground
15) Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs, Derek and the Dominoes
16) Forever Changes, Love
17) Are You Experienced, Jimi Hendrix Experience
18) The Beatles (White Album), The Beatles
19) Who's Next, The Who
20) Legend, Buddy Holly

How many of these would still make the Top 20?

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

less than half i reckon

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

depends on who you polled, really. rock criticism has expanded so much that any group of 100 or so would probably give you a pretty different result each time.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll pick beardy Stoke Newington Kraut-pop over the rock canon any day!

― KATE, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously, the biggest changes would be seen in the representation of punk/alternative and hip hop. Public Enemy, The Clash and Nirvana would surely be in the top 10 or 20. The Clash's debut is listed at No. 24.
I doubt very much that Sgt. Pepper would be numero uno.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a really fucking conservative list though, isn't it?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

it was 1977, what do you expect? the rock canon wasn't as fixed and overbearing as it is now

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

black people in not existing shockah

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, I think a good majority would stay in, if only to "keep up the canon". I know "Nevermind", "It Takes A Nation Of...", "Nevermind The Bollocks...", "The Ramones", "London Calling", some U2 album, some Led Zep record, and a couple indie-rock touchstones (Take your pick from several works by Husker Du, Pavement, Minutemen,etc.) would probably make the new list, as they've definitely been "canonized".

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

As far as black artists go, Otis Redding's Otis Blue is at No. 23; The Harder They Come Soundtrack at 26; The Immortal Otis Redding at 33; Stevie Wonder's Songs in the Key of Life at 41; James Brown at the Appollo at 45; The Five Royales' Dedicated to You at 61 .....
Yeah, you're right. Not very well represented. Chuck Berry isn't mentioned until No. 75, which is criminal. And Aretha doesn't rate any higher than 81.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

the Berry vote was split by a lot of best-ofs, as was the case w/a lot of artists of whatever race. but obviously the first rockcrit generation had a lot of deaf spots

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

The Beatles owned the 70s.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Christgau's Top 10:

1) Exile on Main Street
2) Layla
3) Immortal Otis Redding
4) More Chuck Berry
5) 12 Songs, Randy Newman
6) Moondance, Van Morrison
7) The Velvet Underground (3rd album)
8) Rubber Soul
9) The Rolling Stones Now
10) Wild Honey, The Beach Boys

I love all of them.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Not surprisingly, Mark P of Sniffin' Glue fame probably had the least conservative list:

1) The Clash
2) We're Only in it for the Money, Mothers of Invention
3) Ramones debut
4) Catch a Fire, Wailers
5) Electric Warrior, T. Rex
6) Ege Bamyasi, Can
7) New York Dolls debut
8) Quadrophenia, The Who
9) Unlimited Edition, Can
10) CB 200, Dillinger

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark P's lost is good. The others, being 23, I have no truck with.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I bet my list would've really rocked the boat; I was one year old at the time.

― mark p (Mark P), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I just realized you can view the entire list here:

http://www.rocklist.net/world.html

Another poll from 1987 is also there.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

There was NO mixin of punk in yer beatles/stones in 1978. for or against only! You ALWAYS had to argue about music
And black people didnt exist until 1979

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

black people in not existing shockah
Jess is righter than he knows. I've seen that book, and in it there are only 2 black critics and -- I think -- four women. Out of say, 60 critics total. And half of the male critics look like losers who went from wearing cheap suits to wearing fake love beads.
Very, very suspect.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

jazzbo are you geir?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

What's weird is that the 1987 list doesn't display much aesthetic movement from the 1977 one. A black artist cracks the top 10 (Marvin Gaye), but most of the new entries -- of which there aren't so many to begin with -- pretty much continue from the type of stuff on the last list.

Oh wait, I know why: because we've been asking the exact same guys about records since 1974.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

there really weren't very many black critics at all until the 80s--the two people in the first Gambaccini book were actually radio DJs. that's another thing about his books--he asked DJs and in '87, all five of the first MTV VJs. fuckin' Martha Quinn voted for three Beatles albums!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I seriously don't think people managed to really digest the 80s until the mid-90s.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

...fuckin' Martha Quinn voted for three Beatles albums!
Ohhhh, Martha! How COULD you!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

not sure how much I agree with that--the '87 list has 14 '80s albums, not bad at all. given what they are, though--Born in the USA (no. 4), Thriller (no. 23), Avalon (no. 27), Get Happy!! (no. 39), Synchronicity (no. 45), The Unforgettable Fire (no. 47), Private Dancer (no. 51), Building the Perfect Beast (no. 56), Can't Slow Down (no. 69), Sports (no. 72), Making Movies, Swordfishtrombones (tied at 87), Purple Rain (no. 90), and Sweet Dreams (no. 97)--I could see if you were saying the '80s-as-'80s rather than '80s-as-surrogate-'60s. is that what you meant?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

haha Custos! but come on, your top three albums ever by the same band, even if they are really great?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Julio: No -- GOD NO! -- I am not Geir. Please tell me what gave you that idea.
Among my all-time favs are Big Joe Turner, Otis Redding and James Brown, so I couldn't possibly be him.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

And Dylan, the Clash, X and Replacements, for that matter.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

With the possible exception of "Let It Bleed", the first 10 probably would (and "Let It Bleed" would still make the Top 100 in most cases)

As for the rest, Buddy Holly and Elvis Presley obviously wouldn't (and I don't think they usually did back in the 70s either). Also, "Layla" is hardly considered that much of as classic anymore, like it was in the 70s. As for the rest, Velvet Underground and Love may actually have grown in stature since then rather than declined. And several of the others might have made a Top 20 too, although 25 years have obviously made the competition stronger.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

how do you figure Let It Bleed wouldn't? it's one of the few that seems to have stayed in relatively high stature over the years as opposed to the fluctuating Sgt. Pepper and Layla, for instance

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Matos, that's sort of what I meant by "no aesthetic movement" -- the top 80s entry is from Springsteen, already valorized by 1977, and plenty of the other entries are either vague continuations of things that were already happening then (e.g. the Police, surely the most Rolling Stone-1974 of all turn-of-decade English guitar bands) or such critical and commercial smashes that they'd have been hard to ignore either way (Michael Jackson, Prince).

Not that this is horrible or unexpected or anything: obviously it's pretty typical for critics to sit on things for a little while before declaring them best-of-all-time classics. (For instance, this might have been a better policy with Sports.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

"Sgt. Pepper" is still in the Top 10 in almost all of those lists. Sure, few people below the age of 30 vote for it, but the largest and most representative lists also include a lot of 30-60 year-old voters.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't seen 'Sgt Pepper' in a Top 10 of any of these lists for some years now. It's always 'Revolver'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

"Revolver" is always Number 1, but the top 10 also contains 9 other items, 3-4 of which are usually by The Beatles.

At least in the larger lists, those that are not only the result of young people's votes.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

For instance, here are the Top 10 albums of the Colin Larkin/Virgin poll from 2000, a poll based on more than 200.000 votes, and thus the largest ever:

1. Revolver
2. The Bends
3. Sgt. Pepper
4. OK Computer
5. The White Album
6. Automatic For The People
7. Blood On The Tracks
8. Abbey Road
9. The Dark Side Of The Moon
10. The Queen Is Dead

This list is probaly more representative, and thus more "correct" than any other recent poll, because it is based on the largest number of voters, and with all generations represented, not just the younger ones.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

OK Geir, that one. But none of these lists approach the unbiased sample you seem to want - I am guessing that this was a self-selecting set of contributors, in which case you have to ask where was the request for votes placed? What would be great is if MORI or Gallup were commissioned by someone to do this survey properly. You could ask you many records people buy / how many hours they spend listening to it, if you wanted to weight the results towards people who are more into music.

It's my hunch that younger and older generations are missed out in these polls, with strong clustering towards the 18-45 bracket.

This was the first of these lists I ever saw - the NME readers' one from 1988. It was the focus of much teenage perusing for me and a good way of discovering some great records before I got sick of the classic rock industry. There was a little note at the bottom saying something like 'If this list shows anything, it's the profound inroads into our readers' taste by The Smiths. R&B and Soul still seems to be seen mainly as a singles-led genre, leading to its poor showing here'. I still think that's not a bad pre-88 list. The 80s choices aren't so bad really.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Those 80s lists tend to have Bruce Springsteen, Elvis Costello and Talking Heads doing a lot better than they do these days. Sure, I have nothing against either, but time has shown that those three acts don't seem to attract as many votes now as they did then.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The ones below 18 don't really count much, as most of them haven't heard other albums than the ones that are popular right now. They aren't missed in those polls anyway

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

And as for the ones above 45, I doubt the 18-45 age group are the ones mainly responsible for the fact that there are 3 Frank Sinatra albums in the Top 200.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I bet they are you know. Sinatra was v.hip in 2000.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Those Sinatra albums were slowly dropping in the lists. They performed better in the 1994 and 1998 lists.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh - where are the 94 and 98 lists?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

It's OK - I found the 98 one. The top one (Songs for Swinging Lovers, inevitably) is only at No.97. That's hardly a big enough Sinatra vote on which to base any claims about the voting demographic!

(it came much higher in the NME writer's poll of 93 and you can't attribute that all to Fred Dellar)

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Where
is
Van Halen
Van Halen?

― a, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

It's metal, a.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Besides, the "Van Halen" album was probably just a few months old (possibly not even released) at the time this list was made.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

And black people didnt exist until 1979

The received idea then was that black music was best heard on singles--soul albums (except later S. Wonder and M. Gaye) were padded out with filler. There was a little bit of truth to this. I did say "little."

― Methuselah (Methuselah), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Buuuulyahk! "Whats Goin' On" is solid from beginning to end. It's essentially one looong, beautiful song and it melts together like buttah!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

That is later. Anyway, I did say that was the received idea. (I learned how to italicize! It's like a new toy!)

― Methuselah (Methuselah), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Respect for Astral Weeks seems surprisingly consistent over the years: I think it was even #1 in one of those Brit-press polls semi-recently (what, you expect me to keep track of all of em?).

I have this book too, and used to enjoy flipping through the critics' lists (and photos!) at the back. Cameron Crowe used to look a lot like me.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 07:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think I have that version (the one with the critics list in it). Anyway, for a critics Top 1000, there is always the Acclaimed Music site.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

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